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Help me choose? Nikon Z6 vs Fuji XT3 vs Sony A7III


Samuel Berger

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9 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

Congrats for the new camera Samuel! I'm sure it will work very well for your purposes. 

I'm a little sceptic though how practical the C200 update would be if it takes about 2 years to get the money, there will be much better alternatives then. but probably you can find one from the used market for good price ?

Thanks, Aapo. I think so too. As for the C200, well, there is a better option now, the C700. But that's in the 30K range.

The Nikon Z6 was not in the financing list so I took it off the list after I realised my finances were in sad shape. But that wasn't the only thing. I don't own any Nikkor lenses.

What happened was that I found out that the Canon EOS R had DPAF in 4K, which is very important to me. Everyone was losing their minds over the x1.7 crop in 4K but it turns out the C200 also crops in 4K, a x1.5 crop. So there wasn't very much of a difference.

The real clincher was seeing that for one day only the Canon EOS R was in the financing list at 0% APR.  I applied in a fraction of a second. The total with the RF 24-105mm f/4 was $3,519.16 including VAT (taxation is theft but it happens), which here in Seattle is pretty high.

Ironically I don't see myself building an RF lens collection, because the C200 uses EF, and I want to future-proof my purchases by sticking to EF. I don't think the next generation of Canon Cinema cameras is going to adopt RF. 

Next month I will be looking into the Ninja V. But I think I can stick to the internal 8-bit for a while.

 

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20 minutes ago, Samuel Berger said:

That was the RP, and it's a Max Yuryev video. He's not a reliable source for anything.

Besides the Canon looking better in every one of those test shots. I don't know why anyone would go for the Sony look over the Canon look. 

I will say tho, he did bring up a few things about the canon that make me kinda cringe. No zebras? Auto Focus couldn't change focus whilst running? But the Sony lacking audio input or a fold out display (what planet is Sony on), those and the lack of coherent menus, kinda places the Canon as a winner. Yea the Canon is lacking a few things, but they're not hyper critical. No audio input means your camera is now worthless. 

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19 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Besides the Canon looking better in every one of those test shots. I don't know why anyone would go for the Sony look over the Canon look. 

I will say tho, he did bring up a few things about the canon that make me kinda cringe. No zebras? Auto Focus couldn't change focus whilst running? But the Sony lacking audio input or a fold out display (what planet is Sony on), those and the lack of coherent menus, kinda places the Canon as a winner. Yea the Canon is lacking a few things, but they're not hyper critical. No audio input means your camera is now worthless. 

The video Robyn linked to is a comparison between the A6400 and the Canon EOS RP, a completely different camera than the R which is what I bought. The R has Dual-Pixel Auto Focus at 4K while the RP uses contrast detection (a perfectly worthless system) in 4K.

An external recorder will give you zebras but yes I do wish it was built in.

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Sorry I posted it before I had read you had bought a camera .. thought you were still deciding.. Im sure the canon is fine.. they all have their pros and cons .. 

The 6400 does have an audio input.. but lacks head phone socket !  which is pretty mad except if its a B cam and you only need scratch track..

Edited by Robin R Probyn
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2 minutes ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Sorry I posted it before I had read you had bought a camera .. thought you were still deciding.. Im sure the canon is fine.. they all have their pros and cons .. 

That's fine, bravely bold Sir Robyn. ? Ironically none of this would have happened if the BMPCC 4K was available. I'd just have bought that and be done with it. In fact I think my Metabones speed booster from my BMPCC HD would work fine with it.

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The following came from Stefanie Daniella:

i disagree with your apologetic negative position.
i had long pointed out the EOS R is a mini-EOS C700FF/C500/C300/C200 Cinema camera.
All of the EOS Cinema cameras are speedcrop capable, especially the EOS C700FF.

The huge Professional EOS C700FF has plenty of 1:1 straight-read speedcrop modes, using only a portion of the image sensor, but Canon's prosumer EOS 1DC, 1DXMKII, 5DMKIV, and R, and RP, all have their unique 1:1 straight-read speedcrop mode:
1DC: 1.266x 4k dci + 1.350x (16:9) 3.8k
1DXMkII: 1.336x 4k dci + 1.425x (16:9) 3.8k
5DMkIV: 1.641x 4k dci + 1.750x (16:9) 3.8k
EOS R: 1.750x (16:9) 3.8k
EOS RP: 1.63x [1.625x 1.003x] (16:9) 3.8k
EOS M50: 2.522x [1.5625x 1.614x] 3.8k

In order for C700FF to get 1:1 straight-read:
it runs 5.95k dci FF, it's a 0.945x factor-wide, and only lower-rez 4k/2k dci is "downsized oversampling" full-sensor-width
it also runs 5.58k 16:9, it's a 1.008x speedcrop, and only lower-rez 3.8k/1.9k (16:9) is "downsized oversampling" crop-sensor-width
and 1:1 straight-read speedcrop modes with 2.748x speedcrop 2k dci, and 2.927x 1.9k (16:9) fhd
or other EOS C700/500/300/200 run in various other S35 speedcrop modes:
C700 S35: 1.343x 4k dci
C500/C300/C200/C100 (S35): 1.374x 4k dci
C500/C300/C200/C100 (S35): 1.463x 3.8k (16:9)

Others like Sony's CineAlta Venice FF have 1:1 straight-read 1.4815x speedcrop 4k dci, and 1.5789x speedcrop 3.8k (16:9), too; which is its default "already-paid" feature; in order to use higher 1.003x "no crop" FF 6k or 1.068x 5.7k, one must pay EXTRA $$$ for license to enable it!

Unfortunately, Sony's consumer Alphas do NOT get true 1:1 straight-read speedcrop 3.8k 16:9 (4k uhd), and only get amateurish toy low 100Mbps (excessively) "downsized oversampling" from overhyped "full-sensor-width" (as if it's superior to 1:1 straight-read!!!); with such amateurish pedestrian 100Mbps, colors are worst in 3.8k possible. And consumer Sony Alphas avoid faster higher Mbps because it already is premature overheating-prone at only 100Mbps! (It's woefully poorly heatsinked floating jiggly-shuttershock-prone sensor-shift based IBIS is needed, because Sony has WEAKEST almost-live-view almost-autofocus in the "mirrorless-only" industry.)
Even when Sony Alphas "downsize oversampling" on full+crop-sensor-width modes, it's never 1:1 straight-read either: too much image processing is WASTED TOSSING RESOLUTION to get downsized to 3.8k and 1.9k!!! A9 is the only 1.200x speedcrop 1:1 straight-read, but at amateurish toy-like pedestrian low maximum 100Mbps, too. (useless in sony users hands).

Anyone familiar with advantages of higher speedcrops, knows one can have wide-angle FoV with proportionately high speedcrop factor brighter faster aperture with deeper dof that produces MORE DETAIL than "no crop 1.0x" 3.8k "full-sensor-width" heavily downsized oversampling from 6k, 7k, tossed to get only 3.8k or 1.9k!!!

The easiest way to compare "Fov+DoF" (like-vs-like), one can use the popular 10mm FL lens across all possible speedcrops on cinema cameras, to demonstrate advantages of faster brighter deeper dof more detailed 3.8k (4k uhd)

4k uhd (3.84k)
Deep DoF: 1.5mm Aperture Diameter (compare EXACTLY same dof-vs-dof)
Comparing EXACT same FoV-vs-Fov (Exact same AoV-vs-AoV)

10.0 mm 1.750x speedcrop = 17.5mm F6.67 FF.FoV EOS R (480Mbps) 5.36um = 1.750x brighter faster f-stop!!!
17.5 mm 1.000x "no crop" = 17.5mm F11.67 FF.FoV Sony Alpha FF (100Mbps) 4.5um or 5.93um ... 1.750x darker f-stop !!!

10.0 mm 1.63x speedcrop = 16.3mm F6.67 FF.FoV EOS RP (120Mbps) 5.76um = 1.63x brighter faster f-stop!!!
16.3 mm 1.000x "no crop" = 16.3mm F10.86 FF.FoV Sony Alpha FF (100Mbps) 4.5um or 5.93um ... 1.63x darker f-stop !!!

Pick ANY/ALL other of your Favorite FL for SAME FF.FoV, and you face SAME speedcrop advantage!

ANOTHER EXAMPLE!
24mm FF.FoV:
with highest detail for 4k uhd (= deepest dof) = 1.5 mm aperture diameter!): like-vs-like (Exactly SAME FoV+DoF)

13.7 mm 1.750x speedcrop = 24.0mm F9.1 FF.FoV EOS R (480Mbps) 5.36um = 1.750x brighter faster f-stop!!!
24.0 mm 1.000x "no crop" = 24.0 mm F16.0 FF.FoV Sony Alpha FF (100Mbps) 4.5um or 5.93um ... 1.750x darker f-stop !!!

14.7 mm 1.63x speedcrop = 24.0 mm F9.8 FF.FoV EOS RP (120Mbps) 5.76um = 1.63x brighter faster f-stop!!!
24.0 mm 1.000x "no crop" = 24.0 mm F16.0 FF.FoV Sony Alpha FF (100Mbps) 4.5um or 5.93um ... 1.63x darker f-stop !!!

Ditto: ALL FL (All lenses) covering IDENTICAL FoV+ DoF! (Pick ANY Favorite FoV and Favorite DoF Aperture Diameters!)
Higher Speedcrops offer MORE DETAIL (DEEPER DOF!) at FASTER BRIGHTER F-VALUES in PROPORTION to SPEEDCROP FACTOR!

If you NEVER heard of "Speedcrop", that's okay, because it is a TERM that simply SUMS UP in ONE WORD, what's demonstrated in the above explanation.

For EVERY/ANY/ALL Identical FoV+DoF "look" (like-vs-like) for MAXIMUM DETAILS (why 4k uhd is used instead over 1080p), lacking high speedcrop advantage ALWAYS means poorer Image Quality whether under bright lit or low-light lit scenarios, STUCK with darker slower f-values, thus the otherwise unnecessary need for longer slower shutterspeeds. By the time one hits widest-apertures of lenses, one is on the shallowest wider open apertures where the LEAST DETAILS is the norm; which defeats the point of even using higher 3.8k rez over lower-rez 1.9k (1080p).

(If you don't "get it" ... then you're easy prey for the ludicrous hype of downsizing oversampling from either full-sensor-width or crop-sensor-width COMMON on other's 3.8k using toy consumer level low Mbps Sony FF/APSC Alphas, LACKING FASTER BRIGHTER HIGHER SPEEDCROP FACTOR ADVANTAGE. It's NO SURPRISE that SONYS cannot Autofocus properly with deep dof apertures, whether on CineAlta Venice or Alphas, using OEM Sony AF F/E Lenses!

Edited by Samuel Berger
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The weird thing with digital cameras is that people tend to feel their camera selection continuosly challenged and thus there is a very strong urge of claiming a cheaper camera to be "just as good as the X or Y top of the line model" . for example the FS7 said to be "mini F5/55" (the fs7 footage tends to look like crap compared to the F5/55 footage) or the gh5s or eva1 claimed to be "mini Varicam35" and so on. People cant afford the top of the line model so they need to continuously justify their cheaper purchase to be "just as good as the top model in this or that way".

This is not directed to Samuel in any way, just a general note how the internet and camera reviews work in general. 

It may even get hilarious at times when someone claims a camera be just as good as the top model even when it has 8x worse codec and no high speed and 4x more noise and no audio input and does so much moire that it cant be even used for vimeography of any kind XD

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Well, if you want to make your decision harder and more confusing, ask the question which camera should I get!

I learned this a long time a go.  They are all good cameras, but the most important and critical part fo me, is that I want a camera that screams to me, pick me up!, I have to love the feel of it, the ergonomics, the look, and can't wait to shoot with it relationship. Sony, Canon, Fuji are all going to give you a great image, I've been through all of them, now Im with the XT3 and love it!  Go to Glazers and try them all.

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When someone ask which camera they should get they are probably more in need of a new lens or a new clever light fixture. Or just something more interesting to shoot. Better script is also cheaper but camera may be more fun for the first 1 or 2 weeks before one gets used to it and bored to just shooting test material with it :) 

the best camera for a person is the one which pays itself back the best... either financially or in some other way like a learning tool

 

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