base fogging/fluctuation on 16mm 250D and 500T

[Alexandros Pissourios]

Hello there! 

I have been shooting 250D and 500T for a couple of projects and have been experiencing this disappointing mistake all around in my rushes. 

base fogging/fluctuation. OUCH.

I have to admit I am NOT loading and unloading in a mini-tent nor in total darkness, but I do it indoors in low light. I store the films in their boxes afterward (but not in the fridge) and they are sent to development after a week or two. I know these sound like red flags but I've shot around 20 other films under the same conditions beforehand and they came out fine (minus the red light spills on the right-hand side of the image). I know, I'm learning by making mistakes. 

I'm curious why these last few rolls came back with the same issue.

I have a H16 EL camera

• Could it be that my magazine is not closed properly (or has loosened up tiny bit and lets in light?)
• The lens mount also seems to be a bit loose now in relation to before (that's something that I noticed in the last couple of shoots)
• Could it be just bad loading/unloading

Here are two examples of what I'm referring to:

 

Many thanks!!!

A

 

[Stephen Perera]

you HAVE TO LOAD in darkness.......thats the answer! footage is super cool love it....long live our beloved film!!!

[Alexandros Pissourios]

Ouch ouch ouch

 

so you think this is the reason. So stupid!!!

 

How come this is just happened in the last batches and not from back when I first started using 16mm ( pure luck?)

And lastly

 

is there a way to save this footage?

in grading?

if so, how?

oh thanks !

[Stephen Perera]

I don't think....I know!!!!! hahahahahah try ur best grading yes...and yes....pure pure pure pure luck

Edited May 24, 2019 by Stephen Perera

[Alexandros Pissourios]

Thank you Stephen! 

Learning through costly mistakes here. 

Another thought is

https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

I did travel with unprocessed (and) processed film in my checked bag twice before developing. 

Do you think that might be another reason too? I'm not trying to make excuses, it's just that I have so much more unprocessed film and I don't want to be wasting my money if I shoot more on it. 

I'm just a bit phased out how some films turned out just fine when my practice has been exactly the same shooting at least 50 rolls. 

 

Ideas?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Alexandros Pissourios

[Stephen Perera]

Oh poop.....the film went in checked bags?! then double whammy.....not loading in the dark and airport check bag X-rays are a lot more powerful than hand luggage ones.....my last batch went through 2 hand luggage x rays (Gibraltar airpot and Malaga airport) and it was fine...and the film had been shot, some of it, like 6 months ago

Edited May 24, 2019 by Stephen Perera

[Tyler Purcell]

The flashing is probably x ray damage. Other then that,  the red line is just a common issue with loading in light. If you load super fast, it's not so bad, but bright light and take your time? It's going to do that. 

[Ruben Arce]

As suggested before try loading your camera in total darkness, you get rid of those light burns and you take advantage of your film. I have seen a similar problem with the Krasnogorsk K3, the film counter window lets light in and causes the same slow flashing effect that I see on your film. I can tell is more noticeable when you shoot at night or with less light. Judging by the grain I think those were shot using 500T which obviously is more sensitive to light coming either from the lens or a light leak. I always tape around the joint of the mags, no matter what camera I'm using, no matter if it has an actual magazine or no. Try doing that, that's a good thing to do for several reasons and it may fix your problem.

I use a still photography flash to find leaks on cameras. I point the flash towards the lens, I cover around it wit with gaffers tape, T-shirts or whatever I have to keep the light traveling only trough the lens and so I don't see direct light from the flash, then remove the pressure plate, close the cover and start firing the flash (wireless makes it easier) and you can try taking pictures or seeing with your eyes to try to find a light leak.

I agree with Tyler, it may be X-Ray damage too.

[Mark Dunn]

I'm going with X-ray damage on clip 2, because light leaks are usually yellow/orange. It's directional because of the angle at which the X-rays have struck the film- think of a beam of light, some parts of the roll will be in "shadow".

Clip 1 is just very bad light leak through the spool flanges- you've lost several tens of feet instead of the usual few feet. The left of the frame is probably fogged as well, but that's the sprocket side so it doesn't matter.

If you had shot standard 16 you would probably have got away with it.

[Stephen Perera]

...so in summary........

1. Load in complete darkness
2. Don't put film in the luggage and check it in...have it in hand luggage and its fine there

[Aapo Lettinen]

as their name says the Daylight Spools CAN be loaded in daylight no problem but that is only valid for N16 framing. if using S16 gate the light may leak to the picture area in worst case like seen here so complete darkness required.

the 2nd clip looks either x-ray damage or the film roll stored so that one side of it was much warmer than the other which lead to the other side of roll aging at different speed. relatively common on improperly stored old rolls stored years in wrong conditions but I am not sure how much temperature difference one would need for this happen in only couple of weeks (maybe if the sun is shining to the other side of the roll and the other is in shade or the roll is stored one side against a radiator for weeks).... the fog fluctuation being blueish and constant and it speeding up towards the end of the roll would make the x-ray more probable reason for it

[Stephen Perera]

16mm film cans (100ft or 400ft) state to load in complete darkness.....I do'nt see how, when loading, the 'film' knows ur camera has a super 16 or normal 16 'gate....please explain what I'm missing

Edited June 6, 2019 by Stephen Perera

[Mark Dunn]

16 minutes ago, Stephen Perera said:

16mm film cans (100ft or 400ft) state to load in complete darkness.....I do'nt see how, when loading, the 'film' knows ur camera has a super 16 or normal 16 'gate....please explain what I'm missing

Edge fogging can impinge into the S16 frame where the N16 frame would be unaffected, as Aapo and I have explained.

400' rolls are on cores so obviously must be in total darkness, but 100' daylight spools may- may - be loaded in subdued light, the clue being in the name, because the flanges are very tight.

As you say the Kodak advice is "total darkness" but this has changed. It used to be "subdued light", although I note from my 1980 Kodak field guide that the R-90 and R-190 are not actually referred to as "daylight spools". Of course fast colour stocks are a comparatively recent invention

I would still be happy loading a daylight spool indoors, with my back to the light, or somewhere shady outdoors.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Mark Dunn

[Stephen Perera]

thanks for the clarification! I load in the dark regardless.....but good to know

[Dirk DeJonghe]

There used to be an extra anti-lightpiping layer on negatives. One day Kodak told me they were no longer putting this layer in since it was only on stocks to be spooled on "daylight spools".

This was in the days of 7245.