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4 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

One lens is enough - I've done many many projects where we decided on a single focal length and worked within that - makes you think about your shots.

I did a paid gig last weekend on a sub $2k Bm pocket 4K rig - I had 2 canon batts and used mains power indoors. You might say thats impossible but it got the job done.

Affordable Fluid Heads appear on ebay - keep your eyes open

Of course you can shoot cinematically without a slider. They are a pretty recent phenomenon, most films don't use sliders. Lots of other ways to move a camera or not move it.

I wish you wouldn't keep throwing out these dogmatic statements about what you can and can't do, as if they were facts when they are not. 

To reiterate: Its possible to purchase a black magic 4K, an SD card, a power source and a lens for less then $2K, it might not be the best "use" of $2k but its more them possible to shoot content on that set up.

It is possible to shoot films on servo controlled zoom lenses. Prior to the 5D the majority of affordable digital cameras were locked into using servo zooms, e.g ex1, Z1, Z5, PD150, PDX10, DVX100 etc... Many successful films were shot on these servo lensed cameras eg:  "Inland Empire", "Once"(that one won an Oscar), "Super Size Me", "The Last Broadcast", (most of)"The Blair Which Project", "Dancer in the Dark", " Lost in La Mancha" - so again its possible to shoot films (that are good) on electronic lenses. Yes nice manual lenses are better, but you can't make blanket statements that other things impossible when they are not.

Then the comment about the slider? Really? You can make completely cinematic films without moving the camera at all, check out the work of Patrick Kieller. In his case you wouldn't even need a fluid head because the cameras not moving.

It seems this thread has derailed into a crazy argument. Its important to be open minded and non judgmental about others opinions. I've not attacked anyones suggestions for proposed kit. Only defend my own, which come from a place of offering honest opinion backed up by plenty of experience. 

I'm shocked by the level of dogma and the throwing around of "facts", about what can and can't be achieved and I wouldn't have suggested the BM4K if I didn't think it was a potentially a good idea. It might not be the right thing for the OP and thats cool. Other ideas are available. I'm also making suggestions based on not knowing anything about the OP and what he wants to do. He may be happy with a single camera body, 1 fixed focal length lens and thats it or wanting a more full kit.

Its find to suggest kit and options - but to say you can't learn cinematography without a long list of stuff or very specific kit isn't true. There are many ways to embrace camera work and when your starting out you don't need to replicate a professional shoot but just find an approach that works for you.  

I guess the OP has probably run to the hills and I don't blame him. 

I think we should all just try and be a bit more open minded and respectful to each other. I'm not attacking anyones work or career and I don't think its cool for others to do so either.

TRhanks. That’s just what I needed

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

buy useless junk

Like the 7D that Tiny Furniture was shot on. Or the 5Dii that was used for Captain America. 

...I think you need to learn the difference between hysterical claims and logic, Tyler. You don't make things that are untrue truer by shouting and going red in the face. Obviously a camera that can shoot a high feature budget or an indy hit that gets into Criterion's catalogue isn't "useless". Insisting it is just makes you look silly. The BM is better, yes.  Different.

 

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$2389

Yes. And you still haven't bought ND filters or audio gear - because the poor OP probably imagines that he can use the camera mic and you haven't told him this is a bad idea. And your entire spend on a tripod is less than a Benro S6 head, meaning you're either buying a toy or gambling on a used fluid head to be in good condition.  

Now, it might well be worth the OP stretching his budget to do what you say. (Although if he does, then someone should warn him that you want him to buy used lenses from a brand notorious for falling apart after a couple of years...) But that is up to him to decide based on facts, rather than BS you invent to cover your ass

Let's count them the absolutely untrue statements you've made -

1. You can't buy cheap cameras that WB in Kelvin

2. You can't use the native format of the 7D etc for serious work

3. You can't edit if you shoot in raw

4. No one shoots on DSLRs any more. 

Just tell the truth and stick to what you actually know, yes? Don't make statements about every cheap camera on the market unless you're actually reasonably familiar with every manufacturer's products. Check to see if anyone has shot a successful feature using a camera or codec, etc.

Edited by David Mawson

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Again, my advice is to buy a $150 EOS-M body, one lens and a monopod or tripod, practice. Then add gear using the $1600 you'll still have handy, as you know what need. Or sell the EOS M (or 7D) for what you paid for it and buy the right camera. Which you'll be able to do safety at that point, because you'll know what you are doing rather than relying on Invented Facts merchants.

Even if you decide you want a BM you'll be better off because you'll have let other people take the risk of buying the early models and finding out what's wrong and needs fixing. (BM has a truly horrible reputation for ignoring quality problems as long as possible - https://marvelsfilm.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/blackmagic-cameras-stuck-dead-pixels-problem-no-solution-offered/)

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had some time to read the last few pages after I went off the thread... 🤔 what's up with insulting everybody the best you can to try to prove a point? you could say the same things nicely. people are not ignorant or stupid just because they have different opinions or point of views than yours. Such an attitude also gives an impression that you are not very experienced yourself because the kind of "burn the all bridges, there is only one truth about everything" is extremely common among the 1st year film students or beginning amateur filmmakers who have read a lot of theory and watched making offs and all the classic "masterpieces" of film history and talked about them to canonise them more but haven't actually done much yet by themselves or been involved in professional productions to gain some 1st hand perspective on things. 

Just saying because your attitude gives very bad impression of you to the outsiders especially because there is no easily available information who you actually are or what kind of productions you have done or if that's even your real name (should be real name forum btw but some users ignore that so can't be sure) 

I would tune that down a little and try to understand other persons POV as well, that's all. Nothing else to say, just continue the discussion staying on topic 🙂

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Sam Petty said:

Look sorry I didn’t answer earlier but I know my stuff. I’ve done many classing in school for film and we are using gh5. I want a camera so I can shoot my own stuff with out school restrictions. 

No problem. Having some idea what work you have done  and what you plan to shoot is important regarding getting advice for a new camera. Otherwise the question is like "what car should I buy". Could be a sedan, an SUV, a truck, a sports car, who knows?  Have you posted anything on youtube or vimeo? Good luck and let us know what kit you buy.

Edited by Bob Speziale

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15 hours ago, David Mawson said:

Let's count them the absolutely untrue statements you've made -

1. You can't buy cheap cameras that WB in Kelvin

Please name the sub $1300 cinema camera camera NEW that has "cinema" terms stock; Kelvin, Shutter angle, histogram, focus peaking and false color. The tools someone who wants to be a cinematographer needs to have. 

Aftermarket software/hacks for still cameras, do not count. 

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2. You can't use the native format of the 7D etc for serious work

Nobody is getting a job shooting with a 1080p camera anymore.  Your example's have been from nearly 10 years ago. We haven't had decent small 4k cameras for more than 2 years and now it's a requirement for any work. If you're "investing" you might as well invest in something that will garnish you jobs, rather than a complete throw-away toy. 

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3. You can't edit if you shoot in raw

Raw formats require transcoding unless you're using Red Code, which is a JPEG2000 base format, which decodes and Debayer's on nVidia GPU's pretty efficiently. Transcoding every shot you wish to watch, is a pain in the ass and expensive. It actually takes a more powerful computer than simply playing back the native ProRes files off a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema camera. I know this, I edit for a living with one heck of a powerful computer and have to work with ALL media formats. ProRes is the only iframe codec that works perfectly on everything. 

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4. No one shoots on DSLRs any more. 

People who want crash cam's, or D camera's to throw in corners of rooms that they may cut away to, sure. DSLR's were heavily used on reality TV shows and 10 years ago when there were no other options. Today, most of that goes to the GH5, which is a far more expensive and under-powered camera to the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4k, which is why I did not recommend it. I think you're forgetting this is 2019, my iPhone shoots 4k @ 60ps and it's in my pocket every day. 

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Just tell the truth and stick to what you actually know, yes? Don't make statements about every cheap camera on the market unless you're actually reasonably familiar with every manufacturer's products. Check to see if anyone has shot a successful feature using a camera or codec, etc.

I have shot 2 feature documentaries with DSLR's; 5DMKII and 7D both using Magic Lantern; "A Fuller Life and "Curing Prostate Cancer," which is 7 hours long and had over 100 hours of material shot on Canon 5DMKII and Canon XH-A1 HDV camcorders. I've also shot a lot with the A7SII and the GH5 as of recent. I've owned the Pocket Cinema cameras since their first release and have worked with the new 4k model as well. I'm a freelancer and I look at camera choice as a career choice. I know a lot about these cameras, not only how the work but what they look like in post because my job is to edit and color for a living. 

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