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alexandre favre

Printing Color Negative with a Bolex

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Hi,

I would like to print VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 5213/7213 with a Bolex. 

If I undestand correctly there is no col

 

 

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12 hours ago, alexandre favre said:

Hi,

I would like to print VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 5213/7213 with a Bolex.  Using the Bolex camera as a contact printer. See article from the Bolex reporter below.

Michael Carter is doing this with Black and White films as explained in the video below.

12 hours ago, alexandre favre said:

Richard Tuohy wrote in this forum:

"With a normal bolex you would wind max 50 feet of meg with the same amount of print stock with the emulsion to emulsion. Note, start with the neg head out. It will end up tail out after preparing it with print stock. Load bipacked roll into camera. Take off lens. Point camera at a bright light bouncing off a white wall. Develop film. If it's too light or too dark change the camera speed and repeat."

 

12 hours ago, alexandre favre said:

Is it possible to print the film directly to the print stock KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 2383/3383? How sensitive is this film?

https://www.kodak.com/us/es/motion/products/distribution_and_exhibition/color_print_film_2383_3383/default.htm?fbclid=IwAR3uTUtn_CG3GxvViI5UZpouVulPCoOn8GDib9EVUa_ouEFvY8-WaGNLD3Y

Thank you

 

 

Bolex-reporter_1951_Vol.1_No.4-10.jpg

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Starting exposure can be determined with a light meter, since you'll know the filmspeed, minus any filtration, and the shutterspeed (use either 8fps or 12fps, if you need to cut the exposure down more vary the light source or use ND filtration Wratter type filter material over the front of the camera.  Using a Dichroic Light Head from a color photo enlarger will allow more accurate color filtration control.  Due to the work involved here, I recommend setting up your own Control Strips, using a short length of exposed/processed film that was carefully shot and exposed in correct color temp lighting of color chart with gray strips, and splice in a short length of similar type film to dupe.  This entire 'test' run doesn't need to be any longer than 5ft to 10ft.  If you use an old video camera which has infrared viewing, you can use that on a tripod to observe loading in the dark, so there won't be any fogging from loading; unloading can be done in the dark easier or in a film changing bag.   Once processed, you can either plot out your readouts from a densitometer, and/or color correct using viewing filters and work it out that way.  With careful note taking, and splicing leader onto the film to be duplicated, you can 'inch' the film in the camera right up to the very first frame of the rawstock/film to dupe, bipack, and then using your notes, and observing the footage frame counters, you can stop the camera and make exposure and/or filter changes at those points.   Going even more complex, you could do fades etc.  Running the camera at the slower frame rate allows the bipack film to move more easily thru.  I also recommend wiping the film gate and pressure plate with a soft cotton flannel cloth that has been moistened with Silicone. This will alleviate any drag on the bipacked film running thru the camera, should you have any issues at all.

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On 6/25/2019 at 12:43 AM, Martin Baumgarten said:

Starting exposure can be determined with a light meter, since you'll know the filmspeed, minus any filtration, and the shutterspeed (use either 8fps or 12fps, if you need to cut the exposure down more vary the light source or use ND filtration Wratter type filter material over the front of the camera.  Using a Dichroic Light Head from a color photo enlarger will allow more accurate color filtration control.  Due to the work involved here, I recommend setting up your own Control Strips, using a short length of exposed/processed film that was carefully shot and exposed in correct color temp lighting of color chart with gray strips, and splice in a short length of similar type film to dupe.  This entire 'test' run doesn't need to be any longer than 5ft to 10ft.  If you use an old video camera which has infrared viewing, you can use that on a tripod to observe loading in the dark, so there won't be any fogging from loading; unloading can be done in the dark easier or in a film changing bag.   Once processed, you can either plot out your readouts from a densitometer, and/or color correct using viewing filters and work it out that way.  With careful note taking, and splicing leader onto the film to be duplicated, you can 'inch' the film in the camera right up to the very first frame of the rawstock/film to dupe, bipack, and then using your notes, and observing the footage frame counters, you can stop the camera and make exposure and/or filter changes at those points.   Going even more complex, you could do fades etc.  Running the camera at the slower frame rate allows the bipack film to move more easily thru.  I also recommend wiping the film gate and pressure plate with a soft cotton flannel cloth that has been moistened with Silicone. This will alleviate any drag on the bipacked film running thru the camera, should you have any issues at all.

Thank you very much fort the tips! Using a infrared video camera will be very helpful.

If I understand correctly, I can bipack the negative film with print stock 

From the KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 2383 PDF: "Color print film is balanced to be printed from a color negative, duplicate negative, or internegative, using either an additive or subtractive printer. Black-and-white (silver image) negatives can be printed to yield a fairly neutral image, although slight coloration may be seen in highlights or shadows. Overall filtration should include a UV-absorbing filter, such as a KODAK WRATTEN Gelatin Filter No. 2B."

Do you know wich filmspeed are KODAK VISION Color Print Film 2383 or 3383?

From the KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 2383 PDF: "PRINTER RECOMMENDATIONS Pictorial Printing The printer setup for KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 2383 is similar to EASTMAN Color Print Film 2386 / E / 3386 / E, with little or no change required. For example, if you use an additive-type printer, such as a Bell and Howell Printer, Model 6123, to print originals, you can use a 90 V dc lamp, a KODAK WRATTEN Gelatin Filter No. 2B, a KODAK Heat Absorbing Glass, No. 2043, a printer speed of 240 feet per minute, and the printer settings in the table below: You can also expose this film with a subtractive printer with a KODAK WRATTEN Gelatin Filter No. 2B, a KODAK Heat Absorbing Glass, No. 2043, and suitable color-balancing filters (KODAK WRATTEN Color Compensating Filters)."

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Posted (edited)

Although I always encourage DIY and everything hand-made appertaining to film I’d like to point out that only dedicated equipment can deliver fully satisfying results. To make rushes in camera is perfectly good, one must only not expect the same steadiness and sharpness known from printers made for the purpose. A little too much lateral shrinkage with the stock to be duplicated can lead to side weave.

Although a strong advocate of Paillard-Bolex products (is it any wonder) I’d direct to Bell & Howell Filmo 70 models with magazine for printing. An Arriflex 16 can do the job as well. With a Filmo you can easily add a strip of velvet ribbon to the lateral pressure plate to make sure both film edges get pressure. Lateral and vertical steadiness will come to a quite high level by that. The Arriflex cameras have a too long film canal making it more complicated to achieve something similar. The younger Paillard-Bolex H-16 have a side film guide the wrong way around. Just some information

Edited by Simon Wyss
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3 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

Although I always encourage DIY and everything hand-made appertaining to film I’d like to point out that only dedicated equipment can deliver fully satisfying results. To make rushes in camera is perfectly good, one must only not expect the same steadiness and sharpness known from printers made for the purpose. A little too much lateral shrinkage with the stock to be duplicated can lead to side weave.

Although a strong advocate of Paillard-Bolex products (is it any wonder) I’d direct to Bell & Howell Filmo 70 models with magazine for printing. An Arriflex 16 can do the job as well. With a Filmo you can easily add a strip of velvet ribbon to the lateral pressure plate to make sure both film edges get pressure. Lateral and vertical steadiness will come to a quite high level by that. The Arriflex cameras have a too long film canal making it more complicated to achieve something similar. The younger Paillard-Bolex H-16 have a side film guide the wrong way around. Just some information

Hi Simon, thank you for your suggestion. I would like to use the Bolex as a printer as I working on a documentary about the Paillard Bolex company and want to keep it Bolex only. 

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Bon, là il faut respecter ta mission.

Maybe I wrote the above because I salvaged the 16mm step printer from the bygone Filmkunst lab of Basel today. It’s safe in its crate. It eats film with shrinkage up to 20 permille with very good steadiness.

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All very helpful tips for all concerned, thank you Simon.   To avoid making a lot of work for yourself in setup testing, remember, you can use just very short lengths of film.  You really only a need a foot or two, not more than three really, to make your test.  Print stock is a very slow speed film, usually somewhere in the ISO 3 to ISO 6 range.  You can make your test exposures in Single Frame increments, so you don't run film thru needlessly.  The 16mm frame is large enough to work well for such tests and for Color Correction and Densitometry reading.   Using a hand held light meter, set it for ISO/ASA 5 as a starting point, and plan to bracket your exposures in Half-Stop increments if possible, otherwise Full-Stop increments.  To do even finer work in 1/3 Stop increments as well as other settings, you would either move the lamp source closer or further away from the Printer (Bolex etc, with lens removed of course).  Since you'll most likely be working with either a raw light source (one in which you need to know the color temperature and also filter it for correct Tungsten balance for the Print Film Stock).

  If using a Color Photo Enlarger Dichroic Head, you can make adjustments, as well as use any necessary Color Balance Wratten Type Filters to bring the light source if not a Color Head, to balance with the Print Stock.  Since Color Photo Enlarger Dichroic Heads use Subtractive Filtration (Magenta, Yellow & Cyan), you will need to use any combination of at least two to get the Additive Color Equivalent.  Use the Color Star to guide you, and the Color Head numbers for your increment level of each filter.  Keep in mind, with Subtractive Filters, if you use all three, the portion of filtration of all three just yields Neutral Density.  Thus, if you were using for example, 40 Yellow, 40 Magenta and 10 Cyan, the 10 Cyan & 10 Yellow & 10 Magenta will just yield 30 ND, leaving you with 30 Y and 30 M, which would be similar to 60 Red.  You'll need to keep detailed notes for yourself so you can refer to them, and make your adjustments.  Not all Dichroic Head Filtration numbers are identical, so your initial setup in testing, and your notes will be vital.

If not using a Dichroic Head for filtration and light source, you can use most any light source that has a known Color Temperature from which to start from.  You can always make a simple Filter Holder to hold over the open lens port on your Printer (Bolex) so it's not next to your light source and thus protected from heat, if any.  If using a LED light source or Flourescent light source, you'll have to Filter for those to adjust the color balance to the film.  Initially, you want to bracket your exposures to first establish your exposure levels.  By making up a Ruler measurement from Printer to Light Source, you'll know in the future from your detailed notes how much to move them together or apart to control your exposure. Whatever you do, do NOT use a Lamp Dimmer if using a Tungsten Lamp, since the decreased or increased voltage will not only brighten or dim the lamp but will also affect the Color Temperature throwing off all your hard efforts.  Control exposure either by introducing ND Filters or by moving the camera closer or further away from the Light Source.

I also suggest shooting some single frames of the print stock of the light source, without any film to print with.  Vary your exposures if possible in 1/5th or 1/3rd or 1/2 Stop Increments.  The smaller the variation, the better. This will be to create a Densitometric Exposure Strip which you can read out or have someone read it out for you, and plot the readings on a graph to better understand how balanced it is to the light source.  This is important initially.  Once this is done, and you do an actual print test from a short piece of film, you'll have greater control in color balancing it afterwards.

The easiest method, if you don't want to do a Densitometric test, would be to at least, filter the light source to the Print Film as best as you can, and make exposure bracketing at least in Half Stop Increments, up to 5 above and 5 below what your light meter shows as the correct exposure setting based on an ISO 5 starting point.  KODAK doesn't actually tell us their exact ISO speed of their Color Printing Film, just what the starting Additive Filter pack etc would be on a Bell & Howell Print running at 240 feet per minute.  Anyhow, once you've made your little test and processed it, you can visually judge for yourself which exposure bracket increment is correct for you, and using Color Correction Viewing Filters over a Daylight Color Corrected Light Box or Daylight itself with some sort of light diffuser such as white paper or wax paper on a window, determine what your Filtration should be to correct your color. 

Keep in mind, that the filters then you will add will also decrease the exposure somewhat, so you'll need some adjustment for that [moving the Printer/Camera setup closer slightly to the light source. With your Ruler markings and notes, you'll know how much to estimate that.  In the beginning of building your setup, you can use a hand held light meter to find what the exposure variations would be at say 1cm increment forward or back.  Once you write all this down in the beginning, which ever method works to help yourself, it will be easier and faster of course to make these adjustments].

I speak from personal experience, having used these methods to duplicate film, as well as optical duplication, all in DIY setups.  I also have used the B&H Printers, Densitometers, Sensitometers to make strips, and other various professional grade machinery to do this in both Still and Motion Picture Laboratory work.  Just avoid making it too difficult for yourself, and you'll be rewarded as well as not being overly frustrated.  If it all takes you way too much time and errors, it will be too easy to just want to give it up. That is not necessary, and that's where careful note taking will reward you so that once all the setup work and testing has been completed, you can actually get to the pleasure of printing your Color Negatives....or doing any other film duplication or inter-negative or inter-positive work.

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