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Dennis Toeppen

Pushing Vision 3 50D 2 or 3 Stops

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Posted (edited)

I'm going to an event where my A-Minima is not welcome. It's too big, they say.

The event is a celebration of something that happened 50 years ago, and I have an 8mm Kodachrome home movie of it. My film will be sort of a sequel or follow-up.

Since I can't get awesome high-quality footage with my A-Minima, I thought that I'd go for more of a retro look. I think I'll shoot V3 50D with my NOS Bolex D8L. But that doesn't solve the problem I have with an indoor event, which is not likely to be lit well. I have 8mm 250D, but I imagine it will wind up awfully grainy. The 250D footage isn't likely to match the 50D footage well.

My current idea is to shoot the indoor stuff on 16mm 50D with a tiny Revere wind up magazine camera, and push the film 2 or 3 stops. My theory is that 16mm 50d pushed 2 or 3 stops may reasonably match the grain of 8mm 50D.

I pull 50D all the time to avoid using filters with my A-Minima. But I don't have any experience with pushing it. Can anyone help me speculate as to whether or not I can get away with pushing 50D 3 stops or not, and whether that has a reasonable chance of matching 50D 8mm grain? Ditto for 2 stops.

I know non-pros aren't exactly mainstream here, and I'm not a pro. I appreciate any information you're willing to share.

 

Edited by Dennis Toeppen

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How odd. I can’t really see how something as small as the A-Minima could realistically take up any more actual space in a venue, than anything else.

Is there really no room to push back on them about the camera? It’s so small already.

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I havent tried matching them but by my limited experience it is usually a bad idea to push the 50d that much even on 35mm. That is subjective of course...But you may run into serious issues on losing the shadow detail even if the grain would be ok for your uses. I would rather try to source some 250d instead as a starting point and adjust in processing or in post to match

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1 minute ago, aapo lettinen said:

I havent tried matching them but by my limited experience it is usually a bad idea to push the 50d that much even on 35mm. That is subjective of course...But you may run into serious issues on losing the shadow detail even if the grain would be ok for your uses. I would rather try to source some 250d instead as a starting point and adjust in processing or in post to match

Thanks. I have some 2R 250D, but none is loaded into 50' mags, unfortunately 😞

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mark Kenfield said:

How odd. I can’t really see how something as small as the A-Minima could realistically take up any more actual space in a venue, than anything else.

Is there really no room to push back on them about the camera? It’s so small already.

It doesn't seem like there is any room to push back, unfortunately. People's brains are scrambled by film cameras for some reason. They're perfectly happy letting someone capture 4k on a little digital camera but can't wrap their heads around someone shooting movie film. I actually had a mountain guide service (Exum Guide Service) go nuts when I said I was bringing an 8mm movie camera (Bolex D8L). I also had a gate attendant at Yellowstone Park go nuts over a Kodak K100. She actually called a Law Enforcement Ranger to follow me and pull me over to find out what I was doing with "obviously" professional camera gear in a national park.

Edited by Dennis Toeppen

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can you get a super 8 camera? And therefore shoot 500T... Or can you get the '19 500T in the load type you need? Your camera has registration pins, no?  Therefore, it would produce a much better image than super 8, sharper also,  but any way you can shoot 500t would be the way to go. If you are going for that "retro" look, an XL super 8 camera with 500T loaded can practically see in the dark. To me, even in super 8, if you get a dense enough negative, the 500t is rather low grain. How are you transferring your film? Some scanners do a better job with the film rated at the box speed, correct?

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I have a couple Niko

1 minute ago, Chris Burke said:

can you get a super 8 camera? And therefore shoot 500T... Or can you get the '19 500T in the load type you need? Your camera has registration pins, no?  Therefore, it would produce a much better image than super 8, sharper also,  but any way you can shoot 500t would be the way to go. If you are going for that "retro" look, an XL super 8 camera with 500T loaded can practically see in the dark. To me, even in super 8, if you get a dense enough negative, the 500t is rather low grain. How are you transferring your film? Some scanners do a better job with the film rated at the box speed, correct?

I have a couple Nikon R10's but no 500T in stock. Event is Tuesday. Wish I could shoot 500T! I have some for my A-Minima, but...

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Ok, new information & question. I located some 200T in 50' magazines in my freezer. Now, I'm wondering if I can get away with pushing that 1 stop, or maybe just 1/2 stop. The goal would be to have 16mm 200T come close to look of 8mm 50D after scanning, or at least not look awful. The only alternative for the interiors, I think, is to shoot Regular 8 250D in my little Bolex D8L. 

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On 7/14/2019 at 3:19 AM, Stuart Brereton said:

As Gordon Willis once said, there’s no such thing as a three stop push 😉

Was just about to say the exact same!

  • Upvote 1

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At this point, sounds like your jumping through so many strange hoops to make film work.

Why waste stock on a compromised film option? If they aren't keen with "movie cameras", thats when digital does become a more flexible option. The location is happy with small digital 4K and its gotta be better then battling low light while attempting to push process small gauge film stock. 

Sometimes its better to take the path of least resistance. 

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