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John Salim

B&W print with yellow subtitles !

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Hi all,
After checking a 35mm B&W print of 'Swing Time' ( 1936 ), I noticed it has French subtitles ( with original English soundtrack ).
According to the can's label, this print looks as if it came from a French distributor ( includes a print report from 1986 ).

The unusual thing is, it's a B&W print ( Ilford Safety Film ) with yellow subtitles.
I've never seen this before on B&W stock, but on projection the text looks like it was etched by laser.
So how was the yellow colour added  ..... a type of dye bath or transfer possibly ???

Has anyone seen this before or know how it was produced ?...... I'd love to know !
 

Many thanks,
John S  😳

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LASER does not etch but burn. Subtitles are in fact dotted out. In a good, sharp projection you can see a series of round points that form the letters. Depending on the adjustment of a given LASER apparatus the letter ground goes a little deeper or less. Since the yellow-dye layers are closest to the base LASER subtitles not completely through to the base, ideally into it, bear a yellow tint.

Be careful with Ilford, they never made a black and white motion-picture print stock and if so, I should very much like to know when. Ilford Fine Grain Safety Positive was presumably made by a third party. Rolls no longer than 400 ft were on sale, unperforated as well. The print you have may be a color film. If it were to be Ilford black and white, the printed lettering ought to read black on clear. If you read clear on black, it’s copied from neg.

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Many thanks for your reply Simon, but I can confirm Ilford did indeed manufacture a huge amount of 16mm and 35mm B&W print stock.

A friend of mine worked for Ilford's back then and he's also very interested to know how the subtitles were 'coloured in'.
( I'll check to find out when the stocks were made ).

The letters do look laser cut to me, and they seem to have the random 'round points' as you mention.
The text is incredibly sharp ( and rock steady compared to the images behind them ).
They're also noticably 'cut' into the emulsion side, so no, I don't think they're produced photographically.

John S 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Simon Wyss said:

Mmh, I’m on the hook. It was named Ilford Fine Grain Safety Positive film.

https://www.dia-versum.de/Ilford-Filmstrip-Printer1950th.pdf

Just saw this with an ebay offer:

325458427_CanofIlfordFineGrainSafetyPositivefilm.thumb.jpg.2016757d09296c8f4603ef43c5012c85.jpg

No later than the late 70s or very early 80s. I remember the disappearance of the sunburst from the logo.

I still have it on  a packet of Ilfobrom 10x8.

Edited by Mark Dunn

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3 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

Found another picture

805655336_CanofIlfordFineGrainSafetyPositivefilmyounger.thumb.jpg.c3bb246cbbb40dde628b606cdde049a2.jpg

That's even earlier- the "sunburst" was adopted in 1964.

Handy references here

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

"Ilford Ltd., Ilford, Essex" disappeared from packages in my very early photographic years- they moved out in 1976, but I was still using film that had been packed in Ilford a couple of years later.

 

Edited by Mark Dunn

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18 hours ago, John Salim said:

They're also noticably 'cut' into the emulsion side, so no, I don't think they're produced photographically.

John, we have a misunderstanding. What I meant is edge print lettering such as the safety S and ILFORD. That would be black on clear, if genuine to the print stock.

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Apologies Simon.... yes I misunderstood you, of course the text would be black on clear.

My friend assures me Ilford never bought any of their print stocks from anyone else - they produced all of their own.
The last M/P stock called 'Mark V' was manufactured for many years and he believes was withdrawn around 2003.

If I can get a reel back from the archive, I'll photograph a few frames.

John S 😉

 

 

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