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8mm, Supr8 where to go?


James Zeun

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 I would consider myself a hobbyist, using super8 since it was still commonly and cheaply available in drug stores. The last time I used my Chinon cine camera was about 10 years ago. Prices seem to have gone up, even though Kodak have apparently released a new Super8 camera not so long ago. I know some here on the forum hoped it would bring the cost of film down.

Sadly is all looks a little too pricey as a hobby for me, when you factor in cost of film + processing. If your using Super8 for artistic or professional reasons, I guess that might justify the expense. However I was wondering if there were any cheaper none digital alternatives to Super8. I think someone on here once recommended double 8mm film to me as one possible option as it was cheap to have developed.

 

Miss using film and playing it on the projector and would love to get back in to it.

 

 

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6 hours ago, James Zeun said:

Kodak have apparently released a new Super8 camera not so long ago.

Have they?

I recommend Double-Eight, still the least pricey film system. You have black and white raw stocks as well as colour films. What might surprise you is the fact that there are many good to very good old cameras, viewers, and projectors around. The older, the more likely all-metal constructions. You can find simple, medium, and elaborate models. Some allow to attach an electric motor, the youngest Paillard-Bolex H-8 even take crystal controlled motors for synch sound work.

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My favourite place in the UK for Super8 is Gauge Film. It seems to be the cheapest place in the UK from research I've done. Mainly for the packages you can buy through them - stock + process + scan all in one payment. Tri-X Reversal is the same cost as the colour neg but Ektachrome is a lot more costly. But I guess if you're not scanning and only projecting it is going to be cheaper.. Hope some of that helps.

 

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16 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

Have they?

Yeah that digital flip screen jobby that takes bothfilm and SD cards. Also need to sell a kidney to afford last time I checked. Wasn't exactly my thing tbh, was really hoping for an affordable new Super8 camera.

Can anyone recommend me some good double-eight cameras? Also what's the film going for these days? Where is a good place to buy it? 

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James, I'm pretty sure the camera to which you're referring hasn't made it to market as of yet.  I'd say the odds may actually be against it at this point. (unless anyone has heard anything)

Kodak was trying to set up some infrastructure to be able to have places around the country/globe scan footage but found it wasn't very easy to get that part of it going at a certain price point. 

Plus there's still decent running cameras out there for a lot less than the 2 grand or so that camera would cost.

In the mean time I'm miffed that the price of a roll of S8 is annoyingly expensive. (I've ranted about this in other parts of the forum)

Double 8 is an interesting option, as Simon suggested. It's hard to beat those Bolex H8 cameras.

 

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There are some fascinating designs. The Agfa Movex Reflex has a special spring that pulls through entire spool lengths. The English Specto 88 runs for over a minute on a wind. The EMEL can be cranked further on after the spring is down besides that you can rewind it during a take. Many other cameras allow to retighten the spring while shooting. There are Double-Eight cameras with an electric motor built in, one of the oldest is the Eumig C 4. Younger models are quite slim and compact, say the Canonet. Let’s just forget Super-8, it’s not worth the air we’re breathing while we’re talking about.

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I agree the cost of shooting film is kind of expensive, specially if we compare it to the no cost at all of shooting with your phone or a digital camera, but if you miss shooting on film, enjoy the process  and have fun you could shoot Ektachrome 100 on a Super 8 camera, get it processed and project it at home. (still kind of expensive) You don't have to get the film scanned every time and certainly not at the highest resolution.

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16mm is looking like the better value option. Depending on how you process/scan it - the price is similar/cheaper for similar running times. With the benefit of much better looking footage and more stable camera options - so even if it costs a bit more the benefits are worth it.

The main point of super 8 is that it was cheap and simple, an affordable alternative to 16mm. Now that its expensive, its main selling point has gone and I think its use will diminish. Its not that attractive to spend a fortune on a format that results in soft grungy footage.   

 

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A 25-ft. roll of Kodak Pan reversal film in Double-Eight cost $2.25 in the summer of 1932, returned as processed 8mm film comprising 4,000 frames. That would be $42.14 as of today. A 100-ft. roll of 16mm Kodak Pan reversal cost $6 then, today $112.37, also 4,000 frames. A 100-ft. roll of Kodacolor reversal cost $9 in 1932, today’s $168.55. The first rolls of Kodachrome as Double-Eight cost $3.75 in 1936 ($69.22), a 100-ft. roll of 16mm Kodachrome $9 processing and return included ($166.13). https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

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OP, shoot digital. Buy found films for  .50 to a couple bucks each and project for your projector fix. If you get em cheap, other film collectors will buy them after you look though them. It is like sifting through trash to find a few gems. 

If you can't afford film then that is that. Don't be like one photog that said if they ever stop making film he will give up photography. Be flexible, do the best you can with the budget you got.

Good luck!

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James let me chime in on this subject. I've been shooting Standard 8 and Super 8 since 2005. Like others here, I've seen the price of Super 8 continue to rise in those 14 years. However, one must remember the fact Kodak re-released Ektachrome is in itself a miracle! The cost to produce this film has gone up since the days when Kodak axed the film back around 2012. They had to reformulate the chemistry, etc. Many of the chemicals they used on the previous Ektachrome 100D were no longer available. So start-up for them was not cheap. I've shot 2 rolls of the new Ektachrome and the results have been very nice! My most recent film was on vacation to the beach, etc. The colors, contrast, grain, and sharpness are superior to the old formula. I used a Eumig Viennette 8 to film my recent movie and the camera did not disappoint! I also increased the F-stop by a 1/2 a stop. I've found the new film needs a bit more light as well as a neutral density filter to really look nice! This film is in no way muddy, or grainy as others may have indicated. A good camera and shooting close to medium shots will yield excellent results! 

I will say the price of Super 8 is a lot to swallow, but I'm a hobbyist who only maybe shoots 2 to 3 rolls of Super 8 a year. That includes Tri-X and the new Ektachrome. The black and white Tri-X is also a nice stock with good resolution, and sharpness. Like you I only project! I feel to really see your films one needs to play the media the way it was intended. I'm also using a top of the line Canon Cine Projector T-1 with a very sharp F 1.0 lens and 150 watt bulb. I showed a movie just last night with some friends who were in the films. They were amazed how nice the new Ektachrome looked! Others who never saw projected film thought the whole experience of watching home movies this way was awesome! 

Edited by Shane C Collins
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