Small camera

[Aapo Lettinen]

I am not a big fan of Blackmagic products but the Pocket4k or 6k might work pretty well for the OP's use. one of the advantages is integrated display which simplifies using it quickly and traveling with it (though may be hard to operate on any other than eye level) . the main advantage is them being simple packages but still good recording quality. you will probably need external battery though for most real uses unlike with most other small cameras which complicates the operating a little bit.

there is also the disadvantage of having only HD hdmi output so there is no way to use external recorders with it. for onboard monitors the hd output should be enough

[Robin R Probyn]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Ok, so clearly you don't know what a still camera is. 

A still camera is one that is setup specifically for stills. The outside adjustment points, function as still adjustment points for still lenses and still settings like shutter speed (vs shutter angle), preset color balance vs infinitely variable (kelvin), F stop settings not T stop settings, electronic controls vs manual controls. Imager's best output can only be used for still capture. Menu's that are specifically designed for still people and require lots of digging to find video-only settings. 

The Blackmagic Pocket 4k/6k is not a still camera. It may have a similar form factor, but it's a real cinema camera that when you use it, the settings and functions are more similar to a Red then a Canon DSLR. 

It has one mini xlr
It as one Lomo 2 pin power connector 
It has one 1/8" Stereo output
It has one full size HDMI
It has one USB C connector 
It has one 1/8" stereo audio input (line/mic) and timecode. 

Last time I checked, Red's and Alexa's didn't come with EVF's. They were a very expensive add-on. So it's an unfair comparison. The camera does have a beautiful display that yes, isn't great for outdoor work. It is really the only "problem" with the camera. 

SDI devices are very expensive. You're liable to spend $40k for a decent SDI grading/set monitor, but $3k for a decent HDMI grading/set monitor. So it's smart to have HDMI and not SDI, especially with some of the new L connectors these days that allow locking. 

It's not suppose to be! Why does everyone just think every camera NEEDS to be a Pro level camera. 

You do know the professional market makes up less than a half a percent of the "video" industry right? 
So what about a camera for the rest of us who can't afford a "professional" camera but don't want a camera that is so limited in it's functions. 

It's not suppose to be a pro level camera, so why are you comparing it to a pro level camera? 

But the form factor is still that of a stills camera.. 

And where is the TC in you claim magically disappeared to..?? .. yes video cameras you have buy the EVF separately these days .. but there are the connections and inputs to do it..and they make the EVF,s..  SDI $40K.. set up..yes you can go that route but many ,many alternatives way below that price .. Small HD focus SDI is $500..?  clearly you don't know what a cine camera is ?  

Im comparing it to a pro level camera .. because thats all Im comparing it to.. ???  Ive said a few times over.. Im sure its good camera for the price.. but if the OP wants to upgrade I would recommend a pro level camera .. yes might be bigger but the advantages are many .. all Im saying .. and we seem to even agree ..  

[Tyler Purcell]

12 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

I am not a big fan of Blackmagic products

you will probably need external battery though for most real uses unlike with most other small cameras which complicates the operating a little bit.

DaVinci Resolve is slowly becoming the defacto colorist standard and their cameras, all be it, not the quality of a $10k + camera, are pretty decent if you don't mind the limitations of a sub $10k camera. 

Blackmagic has a double battery holder that goes on the bottom of the camera. No need to have an external or aftermarket battery solution. 

Quote

there is also the disadvantage of having only HD hdmi output so there is no way to use external recorders with it. for onboard monitors the hd output should be enough

Honestly, it makes perfect sense to me because the camera records the best codec's internally, so why would you ever WANT or need to record externally? It defeats the whole purpose of having a small camera. There is a cost difference between 1080p and UHD on the HDMI and it's usually a cost of battery life. This is is part of the reason why MOST of the cameras that have an HDMI port, only output 8 bit because that chipset saves on battery life. Blackmagic don't do that, they have a 10 bit 4:2:2 60p output. Evidently you can also do 120fps through the output as well, but I haven't tested it. 

[Tyler Purcell]

11 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

But the form factor is still that of a stills camera.. 

And the Red and Alexa mini aren't the form factor of a still camera? They're nearly identical in size to a medium format camera.

11 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

And where is the TC in you claim magically disappeared to..?? ..

If you read this statement: "It has one 1/8" stereo audio input (line/mic) and timecode."
You'll see the word "timecode" at the tail end of it. 

It uses the 1/8" audio jack's 3rd positive pin (which is reserved for a mic on the 1/8" headphone standard) as timecode. They advertise the heck out of it on their website as well. You can use ANY generator you want, just need the cable. They sell one called "tentacle sync" which apparently comes with the proper cable.  

11 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

yes video cameras you have buy the EVF separately these days .. but there are the connections and inputs to do it..and they make the EVF,s.. 

I mean what do you really need in an EVF anyway?  The ENG cameras I used as a kid, they didn't have anything special. Just some controls for the brightness/contrast and such. So I don't see why any ol' EVF would do the trick. 1080p is also totally fine, nobody needs a higher resolution EVF. 

11 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

SDI $40K.. set up..yes you can go that route but many ,many alternatives way below that price .. Small HD focus SDI is $500..?  clearly you don't know what a cine camera is ?  

Yea I'm totally unfamiliar with the low-end SDI monitors. If I'm doing a professional shoot, I rent monitors. I have a whole bunch of analog monitors for my film camera, but I would never own a fancy monitor for video village, they get damaged too easily. 

11 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Im comparing it to a pro level camera .. because thats all Im comparing it to.. ???  Ive said a few times over.. Im sure its good camera for the price.. but if the OP wants to upgrade I would recommend a pro level camera .. yes might be bigger but the advantages are many .. all Im saying .. and we seem to even agree ..  

Seeing as you've never owned or worked with one of these cameras before. (I've shot with the A7SMKII and GH5/GH5S quite a lot) I don't think you understand how good these cameras are. Yes they have limitations, but so does film and we used that for over 100 years before switching to digital. So why not embrace the limitations, save all that money and aggravation of buying, maintaining and operating an expensive big/heavy "cinema" camera made specifically for people with money. I say people with money because Sony doesn't care about taking everything from your wallet, so they make sure to use the most expensive media formats only, they make sure that 3rd party cards and readers have issues. They use a proprietary codec, metadata and file structure that is horrible to work with outside of people with super high-end systems, with assistant editors and full staff. 

So yea, go buy a blackmagic pocket 6k cinema camera, some decent Sigma EF mount glass and in your time off, have some fun. Download DaVinci Resolve, grade the footage and learn the entire workflow. I think very quickly it would change your mind because I've been at this "low budget" thing for over 20 years and this new 6k camera is a game changer. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

35 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

 

Honestly, it makes perfect sense to me because the camera records the best codec's internally, so why would you ever WANT or need to record externally? 

It is cheaper if you need to record lots of material without on-set backup possibilities. 

Having a true uhd or 4k monitoring does not hurt either if doing more serious stuff with the camera. I don't see the lack of sdi as a big issue, there is cheap converters which can do the trick if sdi is needed

[Tyler Purcell]

Just now, aapo lettinen said:

It is cheaper if you need to record lots of material without on-set backup possibilities. 

The camera can record to external media built in. So... maybe that's good enough for most people who buy a $2500 camera? 

Just now, aapo lettinen said:

Having a true uhd or 4k monitoring does not hurt either if doing more serious stuff with the camera. I don't see the lack of sdi as a big issue, there is cheap converters which can do the trick if sdi is needed

I think they had a choice to make, either record excellent codec's internally, or output excellent HDMI. You can only fit so much tech into a small body. The other companies focused on HDMI output because they didn't want to license the good codec's, so now you've got a group of people walking around with external recorders because of this. Blackmagic doesn't think that way, they think about recording internally and don't want you to have gobs of accessories. 

[Phil Connolly]

One way to think of it is how much the market has come on.

The BM pocket shoots better looking footage then the Red One, ineasier to work with codecs, on cheaper media for 1/10 the price of that camera. Its exciting to get these options. 

Its not really a camera that you'd need timecode for, in the lowend industrial, personal project etc sector its fine. Even when I have used timecode in the edit it can cause as many problems as it solves. Clapperboards also work.

I've never used the BM pocket with an external monitor, because I use on the one man band shoots where I need a light and simple camera that allows me to move around quickly. The 5" screen is good enough. I'm shooting a corporate today on the FS7 and to be honest I should have grabbed the pocket. I don't need the extra quality and I'm on my own (the larger camera is slowing me down)

Once your stepping to bigger projects, dramas and want to bring proper monitoring etc.. I agree HDMI isn't ideal for monitoring, the cable runs are too shot, and too delicate etc.. Adding converters messes things up further... at that point there are better choices for not much more money. 

But the simple stuff on your own, with camera, lens, sticks - the BM's are lighter and good enough quality for a lot of stuff. After all if the client won't pay for a camera assistant they don't deserve a big camera, I'd rather save my back.