Jump to content

Arri 16SR - Use daylight reels directly or re-spool onto cores?


Bernhard Kipperer

Recommended Posts

I will be getting a few 100ft 16mm daylight reels to shoot in an Arri 16SR.

Now I am wondering if it would make sense to re-spool them onto cores or if I'd rather use the daylight reels directly.

If I wanted to use cores, I'd have to spool the 100ft onto another reel, then re-pool that reel onto a core inside a split reel, am I right?

The downside I see here is that I'd spool the entire 100ft twice and may introduce dust or even worse some scratches.

From what I have read so far, using the daylight reels directly just leads to a louder camera, does anyone know of any other real issues that may arise?

Besides that I was told by the owner of the camera (I will borrow it for two days) that the daylight reels cannot fit in the magazines.

How could that be true? Isn't every Arri 16SR able to use them, as soon as you remove the core adapter you will then see a normal square thingy, similar to what Krasnogorsk, Bolex and the likes have, which fits the square hole of the daylight reels, right?

What would you propose? Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No you can use them directly! did that many many times and the SR1/2 & 3 mags are wide enough and designed to fit them as well! Just need to put out the cores.

Yes it will be maybe a bit louder and you can´t use the Meter/Feet scala on the back of the Mags, but they don´t destroy or scratch anything in the Mags so don´t worry.

Cheers!

 

 

Edited by Philip Reinhold
orthography
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, so I will use the daylight spool on the feed side and the collapsible core on the take up side.

Do you agree that re-spooling the films onto cores may be a risk with regards to dust and that I am better off just not having the footage counter but a clean stock right out of the factory?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don´t think that you´ll have any issue with that if the core is clean.

But if you´ve a filmcan with bag and a plastic 2" filmcore/bobby you can use the collapsidle core and put the core in the middle later after unloading. I would prefer to use a empty daylight spool and put it back in the 100ft box. Much better handling for the lab. I never had dust issues that way, as long as your gate is clean and you have a clean mag… And i used it in really rough terrain…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A 100' daylight load run onto a core will not fit in the box because the centre of the  daylight spool is smaller than a core. So using daylight spools both sides will save you a lot of bother. It will be rather noisy, though, probably too noisy for sync sound.

In any case, the plastic box on its own isn't sufficiently lightproof to protect the film. You would need a lightproof bag and a larger can.

 

Edited by Mark Dunn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mark Dunn said:

In any case, the plastic box on its own isn't sufficiently lightproof to protect the film. You would need a lightproof bag and a larger can.

But wouldn't the fact that the exposed stock is on the daylight reel again help a bit to protect it against some light? Or not really much, as it won't be wound very tightly?

I should get the fresh stock in the black bags anyhow, so I planned to put it back in there, then in the black plastic boxes and then several such boxes in a bigger 35mm can that I tape. That should do, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bernhard Kipperer said:

But wouldn't the fact that the exposed stock is on the daylight reel again help a bit to protect it against some light? Or not really much, as it won't be wound very tightly?

I should get the fresh stock in the black bags anyhow, so I planned to put it back in there, then in the black plastic boxes and then several such boxes in a bigger 35mm can that I tape. That should do, right?

I said "on its own". The daylight spool provides the extra protection. It shouldn't be loose if the takeup works correctly- just put the paper band back on the exposed film.

A film on a spool in the box is quite safe. You don't need to bag them and put them in another can as well. Daylight spools just come in the box, they're not bagged. Only film on cores is bagged.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bernhard Kipperer said:

But wouldn't the fact that the exposed stock is on the daylight reel again help a bit to protect it against some light? Or not really much, as it won't be wound very tightly?

exactly when you use a daylight spool on the take-up side its protected by the spool and lightsafe when packed back in the black plastic box. And as Mark said  - without the daylight spool its not light protected enough and you should use a lightproofbag & filmcan. So go for daylight to daylight spool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bernhard you should get this book: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001U89JXU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o06?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also you´ll find many other Infos for your "cineassist" Project in there. ?

There is also a german one by my friend m.uhlig: https://www.amazon.de/Manual-für-Clapperloader-Matthias-Uhlig/dp/3980753301

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Philip Reinhold said:

Bernhard you should get this book: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001U89JXU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o06?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also you´ll find many other Infos for your "cineassist" Project in there. ?

There is also a german one by my friend m.uhlig: https://www.amazon.de/Manual-für-Clapperloader-Matthias-Uhlig/dp/3980753301

Hehe, thanks for that, looks like I should really get that one ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

I found this old thread and have a follow-up question.

I'm testing using daylight spools on both the feed and take-up side of an Arriflex 16SR.    The problem I'm noticing is that since the diameter of the inside of the daylight spool is much smaller than the core, once the camera starts running, the slack inside the take-up side gets longer and longer until a certain amount of film has spooled. After that, it starts 'absorbing' the additional slack on the take-up spool and becomes properly snug.

Any workarounds?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This sounds like a lazy take-up drive. It should pull just hard enough to keep the wind tight regardless of whether a spool or core is used.

It needs looking at, because you might get cinch marks when it finally pulls tight, or at worst the slack could jam on the spool flange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would this represent an issue with camera itself or just the magazine?  For what it's worth, the same exact issue is happening with all three mags.  It's not a ton of slack, just enough where if I pulled it down taut, it would touch just below the bottom of the mag.  When testing with dummy stock, it does seem to correct itself once the diameter of spooled film is close to the diameter of a core, but I definitely worry about cinching.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

No that's not a camera problem, that's how an SR mag works. 

The gear ratio for the belt that drives the take-up is such that the sprockets feed 18 frames or about 14cm of film through for each revolution of the take-up spindle. This means the minimum diameter for a take-up spool to snugly wind on the film is 14/π or about 4.5cm. A daylight spool hub is only around 3.2cm in diameter, so it won't wind on tightly until quite a bit of film has gone through, causing potential cinch marks. 

The solution is not to use a daylight spool for the take-up, but to use the removeable core that comes with SR mags, which happens to be about 5cm in diameter. 

Edited by Dom Jaeger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...