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Stephen Perera

Dream 'job', massive budget - would you shoot digital or film?

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5 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

So that's Arri, Panavision and my friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis, all telling me the Arri camera was a pain to keep working. We all kinda joke about it

So, the "guy from Arri" told you that you had make sure the loop was formed correctly or you might trip a buckle switch. That's not a bug, that's just the way the camera is designed.

Then "Jim" from Panavision told you the same thing.

Then, you chose to misunderstand what you were being told in order to support a wild claim that 765 cameras jam all the time.

Then, your "friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis" all conveniently agreed.

 

Right.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 9:09 PM, Stuart Brereton said:

I suspect we'll all be back here again in the not too distant future, vainly trying to battle against the next ridiculous/arrogant/delusional statement.

Well, that post aged well.

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12 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

.. my friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis..

.. 🤪

12 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I mean his point is that you could be mid take and it will all of a sudden stop running, losing that take and of course a foot of film or so as you "fix" the camera. That's hard to deal with if it keeps happening. 

The point about a buckle switch is that if the loop is wrong it tends to trip as soon as you run the camera. A 765 is like a 435, with dual pull down claws and registration pins, once it’s running it won’t lose the loop, so how would it trip a buckle switch “mid take”? And you’re claiming the guy from Arri told you this happens repeatedly? The guy from Arri was telling you his camera is an unreliable piece of junk?

On 11/28/2019 at 6:22 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

 I haven't used a 65mm camera, so I wouldn't know but..

This is really the crux of it: you have no experience with these cameras.

You’re relaying hearsay and supposed conversations with potentially imaginary people again. 

You’re drawing conclusions about equipment based on misunderstanding what people may have actually told you, and certainly not on anything you yourself have experienced. 

Again, please just stick to what you really know, not what someone might have told you once that you then misinterpreted, followed by a string of tall tales to try and justify your mistake.

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1 hour ago, Dom Jaeger said:

This is really the crux of it: you have no experience with these cameras.

And do you? Have you ever researched these cameras, talked to cinematographers who have used them? 

1 hour ago, Dom Jaeger said:

You’re relaying hearsay and supposed conversations with potentially imaginary people again. 

Right, so I should just rent the camera for $4500/day, spend an exorbitant amount on short ends, processing and transfer, just to prove a point? Na, I don't need to. See the difference between me and you is that I trust the industry professionals I talk to, including the people at Arri and Panavision. They're paid to give everyone the proper information and likewise, I can intern make a decision based on that. You're paid to give everyone advice to, which is why people listen to you. 

1 hour ago, Dom Jaeger said:

You’re drawing conclusions about equipment based on misunderstanding what people may have actually told you, and certainly not on anything you yourself have experienced. 

How can I misunderstand "The camera jams often" from both Arri Rental and Jim (the lead at Panavisions large format division). When you talk to people who shoot 5 perf all the time (some of my friends), they explain some pretty interesting things, not just about loop size either. I mean how do you know the camera doesn't have the issues described these days? When was the last time you serviced them? Heck, have you ever used one? 

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14 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

my friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis

 

7 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

When you talk to people who shoot 5 perf all the time (some of my friends)

I'm sorry Tyler, but the number of people who shoot 65mm film on a 'regular basis' or 'all the time' is pretty damn small, so if you're going to ask us to believe that these friends of yours actually exist, you're going to need to provide some details. Like who they are, what they are shooting, and what cameras they are using. Otherwise, I'm afraid that this is just going to be written off as another one of your appeals to imaginary authority.

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:12 AM, Stuart Brereton said:

I'm sorry Tyler, but the number of people who shoot 65mm film on a 'regular basis' or 'all the time' is pretty damn small, so if you're going to ask us to believe that these friends of yours actually exist, you're going to need to provide some details. Like who they are, what they are shooting, and what cameras they are using. Otherwise, I'm afraid that this is just going to be written off as another one of your appeals to imaginary authority.

I mean my best large format friend is: http://filmdop.com/

He's worked with IMAX, Vistavision, 5 perf 65mm and 8 perf 65mm. He currently owns a 5 perf Fries 65mm camera. It's him and his inner circle who I talk most about large format because again, it's something I've been wanting to work with for a while. Most of his core group shoots short-form content on large format. 

I mean very few people shoot features on 65mm, but I've been able to track many down over the years including Ron Fricke, who shot two feature-length doc's on 5 perf 65mm. Where Ron doesn't have fond memories of shooting film, he is a wealthfull of information because he was the director and DP on his films and he had no support. They could only afford to rent one camera, so they had to be inch perfect. It was actually our conversations that convinced me that I shoot a feature on 5 perf without a huge crew. 

 

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2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I mean my best large format friend is: http://filmdop.com/

Well I  contacted Ben from filmdop and he very kindly responded that while he shoots "a little bit of 65mm", he has his own 5/65mm package, so he hasn't worked with Arri 765s very much. But in terms of them jamming, he very much doubted the Arri 765 is the worst 65mm camera, and in fact he thought it's the opposite, but hadn't worked with them enough to give a definitive answer.

I've also emailed the main 765 tech in Europe to hear his thoughts. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Well I  contacted Ben from filmdop and he very kindly responded that while he shoots "a little bit of 65mm", he has his own 5/65mm package, so he hasn't worked with Arri 765s very much. But in terms of them jamming, he very much doubted the Arri 765 is the worst 65mm camera, and in fact he thought it's the opposite, but hadn't worked with them enough to give a definitive answer.

I've also emailed the main 765 tech in Europe to hear his thoughts. 

 

Tyler isn't one for letting reality stand in the way of a good story.. "friends who shoot 65mm on a regular basis" becomes a website and the"source" says the exact opposite of the claim.. is there a moderator on this forum anymore ..  one guy is making the forum a mockery .. 

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1 hour ago, David Mullen ASC said:

This whole argument is a bit pointless since almost none of us will be shooting on an ARRI 765 in the near future...

Well you could say the same thing about historical facts. Would it affect anyone if someone came on the forum and adamantly asserted that Gone With the Wind was shot on Kodachrome, and refused to back down but kept making further claims that you knew to be untrue? No-one's shooting Kodachrome or 3 strip Technicolor anymore, so it makes no practical difference to anyone today. 

The point is that one forum member in particular keeps injecting falsehoods into the knowledge pool here, and posting authoritatively about things beyond his experience. And when questioned, he simply doubles down and introduces more falsehoods. I don't want to waste my time having these petty arguments (and I'm sure others don't want to either), but I can't see how else to refute this stream of misinformation other than to keep challenging it. 

But I'm happy to hear other suggestions..

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5 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

This whole argument is a bit pointless since almost none of us will be shooting on an ARRI 765 in the near future...

The thing is its not a one off .. its a one man, mine of totally and utterly false information .. on just about any subject that comes up.. that some of us feel we have to flag up.. obviously there are other issues at play.. but its very detrimental to the forum .. we know its rubbish ,but other people coming to this forum will either have a laugh and quit after reading one Tyler post , presuming its a forum of idiots .. or worse they will make, possibly important decisions about their shoot or camera purchase etc.. based on totally wrong information posted by Walter Mitty ..  and its never going to end.. no embarrassment.. not one inch of standing down and accepting being wrong.. there is only one solution..

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All film cameras jam... the only issue here is whether a 765 jams any more often than another 65mm camera, which I doubt, but the only time this is going to come up is if you have to choose between a 65mm ARRI or Panavision camera, which is a choice few of us will ever have to make. But of course everyone should present the facts in this matter for the record.

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7 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

But of course everyone should present the facts in this matter for the record.

Which is exactly my issue.

The vast majority of filmmakers are not on forums or even have the time to post much in any social media. So when you talk to those people and they tell you things, why is what they say discounted when I post it here? Furthermore, imagine one of them throwing Arri under the bus? Think that would make Arri happy? No. So most people keep their mouth shuts unless you happen to earn their trust and communicate in person. I’m just an inquisitive person and I like asking people their opinions on things.  It’s great to hear top people’s real opinion, not a watered down “for press” one, which is all anyone says on here. I don’t blame people for being scared, this is a small industry and anything said could lead to retribution. I just don’t care because my philosophy is to throw everything on the table and at least get the info out there. Even if it’s 2nd hand, at least it exists. 

The problem is when people try to shut you up. When they come on here and say there is no way XYZ could happen. To me, that is the biggest threat to the information world. It’s one thing to get a spec wrong, we’re all human and we can make mistakes. It’s another to throw other professionals under the bus by calling them names and repeatedly threatening them, just because they report things you don’t like them reporting. 

Edited by Tyler Purcell
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21 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Well I  contacted Ben from filmdop and he very kindly responded that while he shoots "a little bit of 65mm", he has his own 5/65mm package, so he hasn't worked with Arri 765s very much. But in terms of them jamming, he very much doubted the Arri 765 is the worst 65mm camera, and in fact he thought it's the opposite, but hadn't worked with them enough to give a definitive answer.

I've also emailed the main 765 tech in Europe to hear his thoughts. 

 

I don’t know why someone working for the company who makes a product would give a truthful unbiased review of their own product. Do you think he’s been on set with the alternative 65mm cameras? 

Also, nobody said the 765 was a bad camera when it came out. My comment about the camera was in relationship to shooting in 2019 and to set someone on course to Panavision rather than Arri because at least Panavison can make replacement parts when things wear. According to Arri, they are pulling cameras from service when they stop working. Panavision doesn’t have that luxury, they maintain arguably the best fleet of 5 perf cameras and lenses in the world. That costs a lot of money and it’s risky for them because if the cameras don’t work on a big show, they’re in trouble. 

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19 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

 everyone should present the facts in this matter for the record.

 

11 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Which is exactly my issue.

The facts, Tyler, are that:

1. The 765 has a buckle switch built in to it designed to PREVENT film jams.

2. This buckle switch will cut the camera if the loop has been formed incorrectly.

3. If the switch trips, it will do so when the camera first runs, not in the middle of a take. This is deliberate, to avoid damage to exposed film.

4. Properly maintained, properly loaded cameras do not jam repeatedly.

Everything you said was just hearsay, and the one person you provided to support your claim came out and said that he hasn't used the 765 very much, and doesn't know if it jams or not.

11 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

To me, that is the biggest threat to the information world. It’s one thing to get a spec wrong, we’re all human and we can make mistakes. It’s another to throw other professionals under the bus by calling them names and repeatedly threatening them, just because they report things you don’t like them reporting. 

You are a persistent source of misinformation and falsehoods, and you've been very clear in the past that you don't see any particular reason to be truthful or factual on this forum, so please don't try to present yourself as some guardian of free speech, fearlessly posting the news that no-one wants to hear.

You complained recently that you "have a red dot painted on you" and that everyone picks on what you post. Maybe you should stop and ask yourself why that should be. Why is it always you?

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I think Im going to have a little  break from the forum.. no.. hold your tears ..I,ll be back .. but Tyler is doing my head in..  no one  really wants to say the actual truth ,.. and I don't want to say anything I will regret later ..  so its good night from him and good night from me..  Im going to take a stroll by the pool with a Margarita .. and look out over the ocean.. 

Edited by Robin R Probyn
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2 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

I think Im going to have a little  break from the forum.. no.. hold your tears ..I,ll be back .. but Tyler is doing my head in..  no one  really wants to say the actual truth ,.. and I don't want to say anything I will regret later ..  so its good night from him and good night from me..  Im going to take a stroll by the pool with a Margarita .. and look out over the ocean.. 

Robin, I wouldn’t let others prohibit an accomplished cinematographer as yourself from participating in this global forum. We share our experiences with all who participate ranging from newbies to veterans to  want-to-bees. It’s all good. I’ve been criticized by the best here and I don’t worry about it. We would all hate to see you go.

G

 

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I think this "dream job" thread has turned into a little bit of a nightmare 🙂

Really, not much very important here... time to move on?

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2 hours ago, Bruce Greene said:


Really, not much very important here... time to move on?

I think all of us would like to move on from having to continually combat this stream of misinformation. If you don’t think it’s important, that’s fine, but some of us do.

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One solution is to start a new forum that is invite only.  Errant personalities that manage to wriggle under the radar can be voted off the forum.

Another solution is to have some mechanism that allows members of cinematography.com to vote off, get rid of, problematic members.

@ Phil...Are you ok with this forum being pock marked with little cess pits of erroneous opinion pretending to be fact,  founded on the perverse personality one particular member..? Y/N would suffice.

The thing I keep coming back to..... is when we were emphatically advised that we should be loading our magazines and threading our cameras wearing white cotton gloves. That's the way he (Tyler) did it after his 20+ years in the industry.   Unforgivably stupid, but no admission, apology or walking back on that one....

So if Tyler wins and nonsense rules, what's useful having been destroyed, if you hear a weak voice from the rubble calling .."white...cotton...gloves"...that's probably me...

So if you hear that phrase, "white cotton gloves', you know what it means.

 

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9 hours ago, Gregory Irwin said:

Robin, I wouldn’t let others prohibit an accomplished cinematographer as yourself from participating in this global forum. We share our experiences with all who participate ranging from newbies to veterans to  want-to-bees. It’s all good. I’ve been criticized by the best here and I don’t worry about it. We would all hate to see you go.

G

 

Thanks sir ..just a temporary break .. don't want to say stuff I could regret .. a constitutional walk around the aft deck ,and a large medicinal Port should do the trick.. 

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As I see it cinematography.com is going fine the way it is. I don't see it going downhill. Okay, so quite a few of you are distressed by one contributor. But look at what happens - you all, more than adequately, state your opposition to his posts. If Tyler posts something that you feel or know is wrong you make it clear that a majority of regular contributors disagree with him.

So, isn't that all fine? I don't see it as a problem. Life is messy and complicated, and so why would an internet forum be any different?

Also, Tyler is a filmmaker and active cinematographer, to a large extent self-taught perhaps but that's fine. And he has a lot of energy and enthusiasm. Are these not good things? Perhaps if you could concentrate on some of Tyler's positive contributions it might well help your heads that you seem to suggest have been 'done in' by him.

Yes, this thread is an embarrassment, but it will quickly be forgotten. I don't think there's grounds for anyone being banned. If you do change cinematography.com to invitation-only I hope I will be invited, as one of Greg's "want-to-be's." I do seem to slowly be making advances in filmmaking - I've met with a producer on the Gold Coast and he has given me some ideas to get started.

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I meant neither disrespect nor was I referring to anyone in particular with the “want to be” comment. 
 

G
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Gregory Irwin said:

I meant neither disrespect nor was I referring to anyone in particular with the “want to be” comment. 
 

G
 

 

I fully understand that. I wasn't suggesting that I felt any disrespect or anything. Respect to you.

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3 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

The thing I keep coming back to..... is when we were emphatically advised that we should be loading our magazines and threading our cameras wearing white cotton gloves.

It's how I was trained to load cameras. Would you like to talk to my college professors? 

 

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