dallas kruse Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 I'm a noob. I have a Sony a7sII, a canon t3i, and a canon t4i. I've been shooting, for fun, some live bands in my studio. The lighting is just like a live concert with 4 channel LEDs, LED movers, and a couple of static par cans. I'm not behind the camera but rather playing keyboards so I don't have an idea of how the shots look till the taping is done. I'm wondering how I avoid getting shots that are blown out. One shot will look fine on the Sony but will be blown out on the Canons. The lights are constantly changing colors and scenes throughout each song ... with a lot of colors. How should I be prepping each camera to ensure NO shots get blown out? My ISO never goes above 800 (set manually). My white balance is set to AUTO. Should I be simply turning down the white channels on my DMX board? Should I be running some kind of light meter before each shoot? How do I measure lighting to ensure the footage will come out with no issues? Thanks and apologies for my lack of knowledge but this is how I'm learning ... by asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted November 16, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted November 16, 2019 Best to post some video, or at least stills, so we can have a look at the problem. Shooting that sort of stage lighting is notoriously tricky, for several reasons. What looks good on camera often doesn't look good to the naked eye. Easier to say more once I've seen it. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallas kruse Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Good idea. I'll grab some stills when I get back to my place. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallas kruse Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 Screen grab 1 is obviously blown out. Screen 2 is a few frames later when the stage lighting changes ... in which the singer looks great. 3 and 4 are really blown out and I lose definition on her face. Trying to find a way to balance out my shots so I don't get ANY blown out shots. Should I be using a light meter before shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted November 17, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted November 17, 2019 Light levels for stage shows are all over the map, so unless you have control and can go through the cues and adjust them within a camera-friendly range, you just have to ride the iris and hope the editor cuts around the bad bits or your iris changes look like lighting changes. So as soon as a bright spotlight comes up, you ride the iris down, etc. You also have to watch out for color channel clipping in very bright but saturated colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted November 17, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hi Dallas, My advice would be to first set all of your cameras to manual exposure and manual white balance. Second, expect that if the lights will be changing in intensity and color during the show, then the exposure and colors on all of the cameras will also change. This is fine, as long as you are happy with how they look most of the time. As in life, there are color casts, highlights, and shadows in movies, and it’s ok as long as they complement the feeling of your final video and don’t distract from them. The important thing is that you are the one who chooses what the picture looks like, not the camera. To that end, I would take some extra time to set up your cameras and your lights. Have your band mates (or just anyone you can grab) stand-in before the recording session, match the camera settings as best you can, then adjust the light levels to where you’re happy. Just like how I’m sure you do with your mic placement and recording levels. Also, with most digital cameras they tend to look better darker than brighter, so err on the side of going darker with the camera settings. Finally, if the whole frame is on the dark side then aesthetically sometimes it is nice if the subject is a little overexposed, giving some visually pleasing contrast. I personally like wide shot Frame #1 you posted. If you wanted to make her just slightly less hot, then just dim down that light a few notches on your dimmer board without touching the camera. Hope this helps! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallas kruse Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said: Hi Dallas, My advice would be to first set all of your cameras to manual exposure and manual white balance. Second, expect that if the lights will be changing in intensity and color during the show, then the exposure and colors on all of the cameras will also change. This is fine, as long as you are happy with how they look most of the time. As in life, there are color casts, highlights, and shadows in movies, and it’s ok as long as they complement the feeling of your final video and don’t distract from them. The important thing is that you are the one who chooses what the picture looks like, not the camera. To that end, I would take some extra time to set up your cameras and your lights. Have your band mates (or just anyone you can grab) stand-in before the recording session, match the camera settings as best you can, then adjust the light levels to where you’re happy. Just like how I’m sure you do with your mic placement and recording levels. Also, with most digital cameras they tend to look better darker than brighter, so err on the side of going darker with the camera settings. Finally, if the whole frame is on the dark side then aesthetically sometimes it is nice if the subject is a little overexposed, giving some visually pleasing contrast. I personally like wide shot Frame #1 you posted. If you wanted to make her just slightly less hot, then just dim down that light a few notches on your dimmer board without touching the camera. Hope this helps! This is great advice! When setting white balance on my cameras ... does it make sense to do it this way... set the lighting scene to a "pure white" setting. I.e. find a spot light setting where the singer is lit up in white and no colors ... then take my still on a white board and set the white balance that way? Re: light intensity, that's one thing I did NOT do ... check the actual brightness of the LEDs/Spots in each camera before we shot the scenes. I needed to check it on actual skin tone, which I didn't do. I'm imagining I should use zebras and such to make sure I'm not overexposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted November 18, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, dallas kruse said: When setting white balance on my cameras ... does it make sense to do it this way... set the lighting scene to a "pure white" setting. I.e. find a spot light setting where the singer is lit up in white and no colors ... then take my still on a white board and set the white balance that way? I would try using the manual Kelvin white balance setting in your cameras, as that will give you the most control. Sometimes it’s labeled as ‘K’ in the camera. Kelvin is the color temperature scale that describes how cool or warm a light source is. The idea is to match the camera’s Kelvin setting to the Kelvin setting of the light source to achieve pure white, or any aesthetically pleasing color as desired. As a reference, direct noon Sunlight and blue LEDs are around 5600K, Fluorescent lights are around 4300K, and Incandescent or Tungsten light bulbs are around 3200K. As you’re saying, I think it’s best to make the singer’s spot light ‘neutral white’ and let everything else fall into whatever looks good to your eye. Since you’re using LED spot lights, I’m guessing that their native color is around 5600K? If so, try setting your camera’s white balance to 5600K and put a person up on stage in the spot light to look at their skin tone. Then if you want the light slightly warmer you can dial up the camera’s Kelvin setting, and for cooler light dial it down. In terms of exposure, sure, you can use zebras but also just check with your eyes and see where it looks good aesthetically to your eye. If you only adjust the camera settings to control exposure, then you will be affecting the overall image and you may find that the background is getting too dark or not dark enough. So I would suggest first setting your spot light levels for your desired camera settings (ISO, shutter speed, aperture), then leave the camera alone and adjust only the other background light levels. That way you can have exactly as much contrast as you like. For example, in the images you posted #1 and #3 look really nice and dramatic, but the background may be too dark for some scenes depending on the content. So you may want to add some more light just to the background if the song is not as moody or the vibe is more upbeat. In that case, you can leave the camera settings and spot light level as-is and just dim up your background lights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Speziale Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 (edited) If the stage lighting changes then your iso or shutter speed or aperture has to change as well. Auto iso can be tricky because it may adjust to illuminate the darkest part of the frame, which can blow out other parts. While dark frames can be lightened in post, blown out areas can't be recovered. And if the area being recovered is too dark, it may not look that good either. With two cameras you could set one for the dimmest lighting and the other for the brightest. I don't know how else you could handle it. Edited November 18, 2019 by Bob Speziale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted November 18, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted November 18, 2019 I had to shoot a number of musical numbers lit by a great Broadway lighting designer for NBC's "Smash" but with thousands of cues, there was no way to break it all down into levels that would allow me to shoot at one f-stop, so I set the color temp to whatever looked right for the key lights, which were mostly HMI-based (MAC's, etc.) with a few tungsten units -- I tended to set the camera to 4300K and split the difference but sometimes I went with 5600K. But the iris was remotely controlled by me at the monitor, which could get tricky when we had three cameras running with three Prestons on my lap... So I'd set the color temp manually for whatever the main spot light is doing for the performer's face. Certainly I wouldn't use auto-anything. If I were operating as well in more of a doc situation, then I'd probably use zebras as a guide in the viewfinder and adjust the iris ring while shooting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian E. Rutan Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 On 11/17/2019 at 9:01 AM, dallas kruse said: Screen grab 1 is obviously blown out. Screen 2 is a few frames later when the stage lighting changes ... in which the singer looks great. 3 and 4 are really blown out and I lose definition on her face. Trying to find a way to balance out my shots so I don't get ANY blown out shots. Should I be using a light meter before shooting? Can I just say that I shoot with both the T3i and A7s often, and this looks way better than anything I've done. Super impressive. That third shot actually looks quite filmic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallas kruse Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/18/2019 at 4:01 PM, Brian E. Rutan said: Can I just say that I shoot with both the T3i and A7s often, and this looks way better than anything I've done. Super impressive. That third shot actually looks quite filmic. oh well thank you, Brian! That is MUCH appreciated! I only have a couple of stock lenses and I'm trying to do the best with what I got. Thinking that investing in a light meter will help me as most of the time it's just me running the cameras and lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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