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Super 16 Lens Suggestions ~ $1200


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I’m looking for super-16 lens options in the $800-1500 range. This is to buy, of course looking at buying used/vintage. 

A PL lens would be awesome, but c-mount and Arri S/Arri B would work too (I’ve got adapters). I could also get a Nikon adapter, but I’d have to fit it into my budget.

Originally I thought I would go for a full 35 cine lens—now I’m thinking I’ll go with vintage super 16 because 35mm lenses out there at that price point are pretty slow at focal lengths appropriate for super 16.

I’m just looking for one, “normal-ish” (like 18mm) lens that’s decently fast. Any suggestions? I’ve always relied on various wikis when buying older lenses (like for my still photography exploits), but there doesn’t seem to be a list of super 16 lenses anywhere... there are a couple Zeiss super speeds (MKII) on eBay right now, what is the opinion on those? Any examples of work show with super 16 super speeds? Any good zooms?

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If you search old posts here on Google there are lots of ideas on useful lenses for 16mm/S16mm. What mount is the camera? What is the camera?

It will help if you have a sense of the image qualities you are looking to create. And how the lenses will be used. Do you need to pull focus easily for example.

Schneider Cine Xenon or Cinegon are still quite cheap on eBay. Cooke Kinetals have risen in price. Zeiss superspeeds are now quite expensive

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Eclair ACL. With ACL adapters for PL, Arri B/Arri S, then obviously c-mount. 

Typically I’ve opted for less “clinical” lenses (very fond of my Leica R 50 Summilux and screw-mount 5cm Summitar), but that was when I was shooting more digital. Now with super 16, I was thinking of getting lenses that are a bit more technically proficient since a lot of the “character” can come from the film stock instead. But I don’t know; I just wish I could see some sample images of these lenses to make up my mind. Or at least descriptions of how they resolve images. My journeys through Google haven’t turned up many results in that department. Although vintagelensesforvideo.com has some good reviews, but not many. In the past, I’ve always gotten lenses based on descriptions from other enthusiasts online. I’ll keep searching, but I’d thought I’d ask here if anybody knew any resources. 

The Schneiders are definitely attractively priced, but they look really small. Might make it difficult to use with an ACL. Were they meant to be used with Bolexs?

What do Kinetals look like?

Yeah, the superspeeds are definitely up there in price now, but there are one or two on eBay right now that I could afford. 

As for pulling focus, this isn’t for a production that needs absolute repeatable accuracy, but I’d like to be able to shoot at least occasionally with some shallow depth of field (whatever 16mm will allow me). Like I mentioned, the Schneiders look like they have a tiny focus throw. Is that true? Is that the same for all these small, older 16mm lenses? 

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Re-reading your first post. The 10mm schneider and 9mm Kinetals I don't think cover the S16 frame. You can dig into that issue and find the actual image circle(s) of the candidate lenses. Data on focus throws you will also find. I used the Schnieders a long time ago and really loved them, but I wasn't doing focus and can't remember the throw. The size I remember was slightly smaller than the MKI super speeds.

Some early but excellent 16mm primes had to focus by the lens mount turning in the lubricated camera port. I hated that and avoided those ones, but it was a thing back in the day.

If you jump to MKII Zeiss the barrel is a nice size to work with, gears are there from new, but the throw is only about 180deg. Actually that throw is OK. You can read up on the S16 superspeeds on the Cinematechnic website.

Find someone in NY who has these various lenses and go say hello. See how it feels.

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What I did was get 9.5mm and 12mm super speeds I found at a great price and I had a Angenieux 9.5-57mm for n16 that covered from 16mm up for a few months while I finished getting the rest of my super speeds. This was more for myself and wasn't even really a production setup. 

I think super speeds are expensive and you really need to hunt around but they are worth it if you are going all in on s16mm.  The quality and speed you get from s16mm super speeds vs some 35mm lenses at the same price point (I could be wrong on this) I think is a considerable difference. I spent a good few months looking at alot of options from all round and trying different lenses like Gregg said. Most lenses with 35mm coverage you are getting into some very high end lenses/price to get the quality of s16 lenses like super speeds.

http://cinematechnic.com/resources/zeiss_super_speed_f1-2_lenses

This is a really great read and ultimately why I went with super speeds. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jeremy Saltry
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I believe the Lomo 10-100/2.5 made for Kinor16cx-2m could fit the Eclair pretty well but cannot test it. It can be attractively priced at least at around 300 - 400 bucks. No idea if it would fit the Eclair PL adapter with a screw-on Kinor to PL adapter on the lens but from the images I believe it would be possible. (I only own the 12-120/2.4 lomo which I don't recommend for this type of use)

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“Some early but excellent 16mm primes had to focus by the lens mount turning in the lubricated camera port.” Whoa that’s weird, never heard of that before. I’m assuming those lenses wouldn’t work with any cameras other than they ones they were intended for?

The Lomos look appealing, but I don’t think any of them cover super 16 unfortunately.

Looks like I should go toward the superspeeds, although the Angenieux zooms are certainly interesting and plentiful—there’s so many different ones, I can’t keep track of them. Maybe there’s a catalog of them online somewhere. Thanks everyone!

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15 minutes ago, Raymond Zrike said:

“Some early but excellent 16mm primes had to focus by the lens mount turning in the lubricated camera port.” Whoa that’s weird, never heard of that before. I’m assuming those lenses wouldn’t work with any cameras other than they ones they were intended for?

The Lomos look appealing, but I don’t think any of them cover super 16 unfortunately

There is couple of different round mounts which turn when focusing. The arri standard, the Soviet aks4 and oct18 mounts are few examples. I use teflon grease on the oct18 mounts if shooting in cold and vaseline will do in warm climate. Just a very small amount needed.

My Lomo 12-120 actually covers s16 but not at all focal lenghts and focusing distances. I don't have the 10-100 but from the construction of it I would assume it have pretty ok coverage on most focal lengths. Havent tested the kinor16 primes other than the 10/1.8 which did not cover.

Oct18 primes can be adapted to pl with proper focusing adapters but you are very limited with focal lengths. Basically the good ones which are possible to get are the black versions of the Lomo 28/2 , 35/2, 50/2 and the 75/2. The rafcamera adapters work great but don't fit all PL cameras like Alexas or Amiras. With pl-C adapters they should not have problem.  These are N35 lenses which just cover S35 on the 28 and 35 and should just cover FF on 50 and 75. For 16mm you might be happier with a bit more contrasty lenses though based on your OP

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On 1/30/2020 at 11:24 AM, Raymond Zrike said:

“Some early but excellent 16mm primes had to focus by the lens mount turning in the lubricated camera port.” Whoa that’s weird, never heard of that before. I’m assuming those lenses wouldn’t work with any cameras other than they ones they were intended for?

Lots of cameras had Arr-S lens ports. You already have an Arri-S intermediatary mount, as Dom calls it, for your ACL, so lucky you.

Aapo points to adapters or intermediatary mounts that allow the lens mount to rotate while focusing  without being lubricated. I think there is a sleeve that the lens sits in and the outer surface of that will of course be lubricated. For ACL I think Less Bosher makes an intermediatary mount for the camera that does this. It won't be super cheap, but depending on your lens choices, it could be very usefull.

Les Bosher is very skilled. Calling him an artisan is not fair. I have an ACL PL  intermediatary mount here that is almost a work of art. If he doesn't have the mount/adapter you need on the shelf, he will have the CNC files ready to go. My plug for less Bosher.

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On 1/30/2020 at 1:01 AM, aapo lettinen said:

My Lomo 12-120 actually covers s16 but not at all focal lenghts and focusing distances

I tested the 12-120 T3 on my friend's Aaton LTR and it covers S16 on 12 - 30 range if focused between 3m and infinity. between 30 and 120 it covers S16 at all focusing distances. These are the same results I got with my S16 modified Kinor earlier but I wanted to confirm with another camera because my Kinor is N16 centered. 

So the Lomo covers S16 but you have to live with some annoyances like the poor lens speed and focusing distance limitations. It is very affordable lens though, you get a usable S16 capable zoom with the PL adapter and caps for about 150 bucks or so

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