The problem with digital B&W capture is it has too many gradations

[Daniel D. Teoli Jr.]

B&W digital is a mass of gray gradations. To emulate film better they need to make less gradations with digital B&W and develop an organic grain structure. Even if they can't do the grain well, the cutting back on the gradations would be a big help. I think it was William Klein who said it best...'**(obscenity removed)** the mid-tones.' 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

[Phil Connolly]

Less graduations you say? 

I give you 1 bit black and white - the least amount of graduations possible (outside of a Spinal Tap Album Cover)

 

[Daniel D. Teoli Jr.]

No, not litho. Just less gradations than standard digital. You study up your old BW film then compare to modern digital and you will see. The digital has a plastic look to it.  

...of course this presupposes you want to emulate film. If you like the digital look then it would be a step backwards.

[Stuart Brereton]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:54 PM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

. To emulate film better they need to make less gradations with digital B&W

So, just increase the contrast? Doesn’t seem like something you’d want done destructively when it’s simple to add in post.

[AJ Young]

Part of the appeal to shoot large format film was the beautiful gradations and finer grain.

If grain is all that matters, than adding it to a digital image in post is easy today. I thought Dark Waters was shot on film, mostly because Ed Lachman prefers that format, but was astonished when I found out it was shot digitally and made to look like film in post.

Remember Yedlin! ?

[Manu Delpech]

It's funny, I was shocked by how video looking Dark Waters is, and he made it clear he didn't like the experience ? Adding grain is not enough, you can't just add a layer of fake grain and expect it to look like film, I mean, obviously. There's always a difference (and yes, even when Yedlin does it, still looks like digital), how can you mimic perfectly film grain when it's random, every frame being different, and it's about more than grain. Dark Waters used LiveGrain, which I was stunned to see considering LiveGrain has been used on plenty of shows and films and yet it's barely perceptible.

[AJ Young]

7 hours ago, Manu Delpech said:

It's funny, I was shocked by how video looking Dark Waters is, and he made it clear he didn't like the experience ? Adding grain is not enough, you can't just add a layer of fake grain and expect it to look like film, I mean, obviously. There's always a difference (and yes, even when Yedlin does it, still looks like digital), how can you mimic perfectly film grain when it's random, every frame being different, and it's about more than grain. Dark Waters used LiveGrain, which I was stunned to see considering LiveGrain has been used on plenty of shows and films and yet it's barely perceptible.

Must be a matter of taste then!