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Lighting daylight interior without 18ks?


Varuj Chapan

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Hi.I will be shooting a streaming series pilot soon and I am trying to figure out what the best solution is to light day light interiors without big lights.Is there a way to bounce light in a way that would look natural? The grip truck I will get has 1 Arri m18,couple joker 800ws and a couple Arri s60s.There is a scene in a 2nd floor master bedroom and the only way I can reach to the windows is with a scissor lift.Im trying to figure out the most  efficient way to light these scenes because we will be moving from one bedroom to another in one day.Good thing is we won't be moving locations.This is my first go at a larger production like this and since Im given this opportunity I want to nail it.Any advice will be much appreciated.

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It somewhat depends on what you want to achieve.. What kind of mood are you going for? Is the sun going to blast through the window anyway when you shoot? Do you want to achieve flat sitcom style lighting? Is the ceiling white to throw the M18 into? How big is the room? Depending on how much talent and talent movement you might be able to shape things the way you want to with that package..But more context might be helpful.

 

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@Varuj Chapan, I lit this kitchen (twice because there were two different sequences in it with different tones) with 8 litemats on each window from the top to the bottom (there were 3 windows).

It was on a 4th floor with no access to balconies, scissor lifts, cherry pickers, etc, etc.

There is nothing else inside the kitchen other than a 8 x 8 net behind the camera on the wide shot and on the right side of the camera on the close up of the girl.  

The stills are ungraded by the way!

Portrait004.jpg

STILL_DAY_01_1.1.3_1.1.7.jpg

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9 hours ago, Joseph Tese said:

It somewhat depends on what you want to achieve.. What kind of mood are you going for? Is the sun going to blast through the window anyway when you shoot? Do you want to achieve flat sitcom style lighting? Is the ceiling white to throw the M18 into? How big is the room? Depending on how much talent and talent movement you might be able to shape things the way you want to with that package..But more context might be helpful.

Hey Joseph,Thanks for reaching out.The show is drama comedy so Im going to find the right balance between flat and moody.One option Im thinking could be to showing as though the recessed lights are the motivation of the key light.Its just that the recessed lights are tungsten balanced .Im more concerned about the wide shot because I need to establish where the light is coming from.I guess it would be a good idea not to show the ceiling so much.Another Idea I have was to bounce it somewhat of where the main actor will be at.Here is a couple stills of the bedroom

946004532_fuckcops.jpg.28716861dbbbb57683380502577dbb6f.jpg

 

This is the window on the right side of the living room.

1985043800_IMG_5242copy.jpg.7b6495bd0f2c27861879d48bc923411d.jpg

 

This living room is from another scene.There will be people sitting and watching tv.

IMG_4974.jpg.008e25d7b851658a02b75fe41286f7b5.jpg

 

 

Edited by Varuj Chapan
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8 hours ago, Miguel Angel said:

@Varuj Chapan, I lit this kitchen (twice because there were two different sequences in it with different tones) with 8 litemats on each window from the top to the bottom (there were 3 windows).

It was on a 4th floor with no access to balconies, scissor lifts, cherry pickers, etc, etc.

There is nothing else inside the kitchen other than a 8 x 8 net behind the camera on the wide shot and on the right side of the camera on the close up of the girl.  

The stills are ungraded by the way!

Portrait004.jpg

STILL_DAY_01_1.1.3_1.1.7.jpg

Hey Miguel,I really like this idea.This could be a good option.Unfortunatly there is only one window and I would need to hide the main light somewhere for the wide shot so that the window doesn't clip too much.Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Varuj Chapan said:

Hey Miguel,I really like this idea.This could be a good option.Unfortunatly there is only one window and I would need to hide the main light somewhere for the wide shot so that the window doesn't clip too much.Thanks.

No worries Varuj. 

As you can see from the frames, there is no clipping, just white under 100% because I covered the litemats with diffusion and depron. 
On top of that I put the sheets to make everything a bit more natural. 

I lit that kitchen to shoot 360º at any time so if you want to make the windows less white you can always light the close ups ? 

Have a good one! 

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hmm.. Because efficiency/speed is your goal and you have one lift, my impression is that you will have to rely more on natural light through the windows? If you're okay with that look, and focusing more on shaping the light inside.

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On 2/24/2020 at 6:50 AM, Joseph Tese said:

hmm.. Because efficiency/speed is your goal and you have one lift, my impression is that you will have to rely more on natural light through the windows? If you're okay with that look, and focusing more on shaping the light inside.

That could be an option.Just worried the light might change over time.Also there isnt enough light coming in the room during afternoon.What if I have a light right on top of the window shining in? Maybe a kino 4 bank or something similar.

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:35 PM, Miguel Angel said:

@Varuj Chapan, I lit this kitchen (twice because there were two different sequences in it with different tones) with 8 litemats on each window from the top to the bottom (there were 3 windows).

It was on a 4th floor with no access to balconies, scissor lifts, cherry pickers, etc, etc.

There is nothing else inside the kitchen other than a 8 x 8 net behind the camera on the wide shot and on the right side of the camera on the close up of the girl.  

The stills are ungraded by the way!

Portrait004.jpg

STILL_DAY_01_1.1.3_1.1.7.jpg

Were the litemats right on the windows or a couple of feet away? It looks fantastic in my opinion.

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@Miguel Angel that looks great.

For situations where there are not such large windows and hard light is preferred, a DP friend of mine once recommended mirror boards. They require constant adjustment during the day (and sunny weather) but pack the punch of an 18K without drawing any power of course.

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7 hours ago, Jae Solina said:

Were the litemats right on the windows or a couple of feet away? It looks fantastic in my opinion.

Thanks Jae, 

The litemats  were, literally, one foot away from the window because they had a rig built which allowed for a 1 foot separation between the window and the litemats.  
I used diffusion on the rig as well (Don't remember which one though!)

Now that I found a photo I see that there were 16 litemats per window.

IMG_0856.thumb.jpg.08a7e1f455c2433ab089723258d7af90.jpg

 

6 hours ago, M Joel W said:

@Miguel Angel that looks great.

For situations where there are not such large windows and hard light is preferred, a DP friend of mine once recommended mirror boards. They require constant adjustment during the day (and sunny weather) but pack the punch of an 18K without drawing any power of course.

I use a lot of mirrors to recreate hot spots, I learnt the hard way that it is better to place a mirror with a light bouncing in it so you don't  have to keep adjusting it every 2 minutes.. but sometimes you do have to use mirrors and just the sun ? 

These two frames are lit with mirrors and sun (and a china ball with an aladdin light) for them. 

UNICEF_1.9.1.thumb.jpg.d963d49205f4e72f341db7c62d0e49da.jpg

UNICEF_1_10.1.thumb.jpg.ec26e269970c5906da292783f0603449.jpg

UNICEF_1.10.1.jpg

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On 4/24/2020 at 1:16 PM, M Joel W said:

For situations where .... hard light is preferred, a DP friend of mine once recommended mirror boards. They require constant adjustment during the day (and sunny weather) but pack the punch of an 18K without drawing any power of course.

Working in New England I too learned the hard way that it is better to put a light into  mirror boards than count on the sun. Mark Twain once said "if you don't like the weather in New England , wait five minutes and it will change."  A smaller light, like a 4k, into  mirror boards is a great way to replicate the feel of an 18k on an aerial lift.  The objective to putting an 18k Fresnel on a lift  at a distance is to replicate the angle and hard parallel rays of the sun. As you can see from the production stills of a Bose commercial below,  you can accomplish similar results by bouncing a 4k ARRIMAX from the ground into mirror boards on stands or a lift.  This set up gives you the hard parallel light of an 18K at a distance because, even though the light from the 4k spreads, the  boards at the window collimate the light by reflecting only  parallel rays.  You can get away with a smaller light since the distance of the throw is not as far. And you don't have to worry about the sun moving behind a cloud or a tree (as you can see in the stills below, the sun would not naturally shine through the windows of the workshop.) A 4k ARRIMAX is a good choice of light for this purpose since it has a lot of punch for its power and can be powered off a Honda EU6500 or a dryer receptacle with a 60A transformer/distro as pictured below.) In the Bose commercial we warmed up the 4k with half CTO to partially match the tungsten heads inside.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lighting Rental and Sales in Boston

Mirror_Board_Composite_Low_Rez copy.jpg

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On 4/25/2020 at 6:18 PM, Guy Holt said:

Working in New England I too learned the hard way that it is better to put a light into  mirror boards than count on the sun. Mark Twain once said "if you don't like the weather in New England , wait five minutes and it will change."  A smaller light, like a 4k, into  mirror boards is a great way to replicate the feel of an 18k on an aerial lift.  The objective to putting an 18k Fresnel on a lift  at a distance is to replicate the angle and hard parallel rays of the sun. As you can see from the production stills of a Bose commercial below,  you can accomplish similar results by bouncing a 4k ARRIMAX from the ground into mirror boards on stands or a lift.  This set up gives you the hard parallel light of an 18K at a distance because, even though the light from the 4k spreads, the  boards at the window collimate the light by reflecting only  parallel rays.  You can get away with a smaller light since the distance of the throw is not as far. And you don't have to worry about the sun moving behind a cloud or a tree (as you can see in the stills below, the sun would not naturally shine through the windows of the workshop.) A 4k ARRIMAX is a good choice of light for this purpose since it has a lot of punch for its power and can be powered off a Honda EU6500 or a dryer receptacle with a 60A transformer/distro as pictured below.) In the Bose commercial we warmed up the 4k with half CTO to partially match the tungsten heads inside.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lighting Rental and Sales in Boston

Mirror_Board_Composite_Low_Rez copy.jpg

Mr. Holt. You seriously need to consider making a masterclass. We need more resources regarding gripping and dp'ing. Thank you for this.

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@Jae Solina I see that you're in Texas! Depending on where you are in that state, constant sun light may actually be plentiful. I've shot a lot in AZ/NM/LA deserts and mirror boards were incredibly useful.

noisetrailer001.jpg

This above shot is from a feature I did in 2017. We used a mirror board shooting through a 4x4 frame of 216. We had to "shake it up" every few minutes, but that only took a few seconds of work. TONS of light from mirror boards & the sun; I was able to balance the interior exposure with the exterior with little effort!

Mirror boards can save a lot of time and they can also eat it all up. Keep and eye on the weather and be prepared to shoot a light into it if clouds start rolling in.

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On 5/4/2020 at 9:02 PM, AJ Young said:

@Jae Solina I see that you're in Texas! Depending on where you are in that state, constant sun light may actually be plentiful. I've shot a lot in AZ/NM/LA deserts and mirror boards were incredibly useful.

noisetrailer001.jpg

This above shot is from a feature I did in 2017. We used a mirror board shooting through a 4x4 frame of 216. We had to "shake it up" every few minutes, but that only took a few seconds of work. TONS of light from mirror boards & the sun; I was able to balance the interior exposure with the exterior with little effort!

Mirror boards can save a lot of time and they can also eat it all up. Keep and eye on the weather and be prepared to shoot a light into it if clouds start rolling in.

I can't see the attachment for some reason. What mirror boards do you recommend?  All i can find right now are matthews'. Im guessing shake it up means adjusting it? Thank you AJ

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Mirror boards from the standard grip companies work great, they're simple in design. Matthews, MSE, American, etc. They're heavy and require a solid combo stand.

Also, here's the photo (idk why the image won't load):

 

noisetrailer001.jpg

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1 hour ago, AJ Young said:

Mirror boards from the standard grip companies work great, they're simple in design. Matthews, MSE, American, etc. They're heavy and require a solid combo stand.

Also, here's the photo (idk why the image won't load):

 

noisetrailer001.jpg

Man that looks amazing. What was the diffusion? Where would you put the mirror if there were two people in the car? One driver and one passenger?

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Thank you!

I believe we used a 4x4 frame of 216. If I were to light two people like you suggested, I would just back up the mirror board and add a second 4x4 frame of diffusion: each frame covers a character while the mirror board hits both frames because I backed it up.

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On 4/25/2020 at 4:18 PM, Guy Holt said:

Working in New England I too learned the hard way that it is better to put a light into  mirror boards than count on the sun. Mark Twain once said "if you don't like the weather in New England , wait five minutes and it will change."  A smaller light, like a 4k, into  mirror boards is a great way to replicate the feel of an 18k on an aerial lift.  The objective to putting an 18k Fresnel on a lift  at a distance is to replicate the angle and hard parallel rays of the sun. As you can see from the production stills of a Bose commercial below,  you can accomplish similar results by bouncing a 4k ARRIMAX from the ground into mirror boards on stands or a lift.  This set up gives you the hard parallel light of an 18K at a distance because, even though the light from the 4k spreads, the  boards at the window collimate the light by reflecting only  parallel rays.  You can get away with a smaller light since the distance of the throw is not as far. And you don't have to worry about the sun moving behind a cloud or a tree (as you can see in the stills below, the sun would not naturally shine through the windows of the workshop.) A 4k ARRIMAX is a good choice of light for this purpose since it has a lot of punch for its power and can be powered off a Honda EU6500 or a dryer receptacle with a 60A transformer/distro as pictured below.) In the Bose commercial we warmed up the 4k with half CTO to partially match the tungsten heads inside.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lighting Rental and Sales in Boston

Mirror_Board_Composite_Low_Rez copy.jpg

Hey AJ Young.This could very well work.I haven't worked with mirrors before so this is new to me.I will get my hands on them and test this out.Thank you!

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