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What are people's thoughts on the Kinefinity Mavo Edge that was just announced recently? 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/04/27/kinefinity-mavo-edge-8k-internal-prores-raw-recording/

I've never seen a Kinefinity camera in the wild personally, but specs-wise this thing is just incredible. It's practically everything I've been asking manufacturers for, for years (and a number of cool things that would never have occurred to me):

  • Unibody design (but still tiny)
  • Internal NDs that allow for precision in exposure (so no big 2-3 stop jumps in density) this is a HUGE time saver
  • All the Prores flavours/framerates + all the downsampling options you could want
  • Internal scratch mic (for audio sync)
  • A couple of different compression options for the raw recording
  • Affordable media (though you'll want to stick with Samsung "PRO" NVMEs for the MLC Nand - to deal with continuous 8k recording)
  • Integrated V-mount plate (so you're not having to worry about power cables as a point of failure/snag point)
  • The added option of integrated BP-U batteries will be terrific for times you need to jam the camera on a car's dashboard (or similar tight spots)
  • TRUE 12-bit 4k 4:4:4 RGB recording, downsampled from 8k (I'm pretty sure this is the first camera to ever offer this)
  • Clear manual controls, and control screen (I don't know what Kinefinity menus are like, but if most of the essentials can be adjusted from the main screen, life should be fairly easy).
  • True flexibility in sensor windowing and squeeze ratios (like the Mini LF), so that whatever image format, aspect ratio, lens type, anamorphic squeeze, or final deliverable you're working to - you can set it in camera, and don't have to rely on bringing in specific external monitors that have the controls you need.
  • Good variable framerates
  • Built-in power outputs, so you don't have to be adding additional power plates just to get your basic accessories running.
  • Enough monitoring outputs to make life easy
  • Dual Base ISO
  • Two proprietary video outputs (for running a Kinefinity EVF and Monitor at the same time) - TAKE NOTE CANON!
  • A "Lens" cable port at the front (which I'm hoping is going to be capable of powering FIZ motors (and not just conventional servo motors). This could allow for a SUPER-tidy camera build with RF-integrated motors like the Cforce Mini RF.
  • A super-easy, super-flexible base lens mount, that can be adapted to basically anything you need/want
  • Extremely fast sensor readout, for minimal jello skew.


I keep trying to think of what else I'd want to add to a camera, or a physical build-layout that I'd prefer, and I keep coming up blank. 12G-SDI ports for 4k external monitoring would be nice (not that we have 4k monitors on-set very often), and an integrated EVF/Monitor like the Arri's new one for the Mini LF (so the operator can instantly move between the two) also comes to mind (and that's certainly an accessory that Kinefinity could build down the line). But that's about it.

The camera simply sounds pretty much perfect for my needs.

The one spec question I do still have is boot-up time. The Sony Venice and Canon C500ii (with their 4-5 second boot times) have really set the standard here. So I've got fingers-crossed the Edge can manage sub-10 seconds at least.

Warranty repairs/support is a concern (I'm in Australia and I don't know what the Kinefinity situation is like down here). 

Image-wise, I've seen gorgeous stuff produced on the Mavo LF, so I suspect this will do fine on that front. The Mavo LF's highlights do seem to clip a little harshly, but that's about the only imaging concern I have at the moment, they seem to have found a really nice space for themselves in terms of their colour science.

What an incredibly exciting camera.

I no that no Producer is ever going to ask for it (which is a serious concern), but I can see this camera genuinely making my life on set easier (and allowing me to make my days faster). And that's a big deal.

What do you think?

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I've not had access to kinefinity cameras since the kinemax 6k so I'm guessing they've improved build quality since then.

The kinemax was a bit of a mess. Badly translated and confusing menus. Didn't play well with teradeks, in-fact sdi outputs where pretty shoddy, worse than some video taps. Had several issues around monitor connections (like the red one used to have). But then the footage would be transcoded from raw and the image looked amazing.

There is the risk with kine cameras that they have a bunch of small issues or bugs which may take a long time to fix. They are targeted at indie film makers so are never going to get wide market acceptance. Plus it'll take a while before the company is taken seriously. 

The Mavo Edge is the most promising camera they've made but I'd still have some concerns powering accesories through it. Not sure what that Lens port at the front will be used for, possible just iData or the likes

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I think it produces some good images, at least from what I've seen online. My only concern is servicing the camera, like what Matt Allard pointed out in the News Shooter article.

Convincing a producer to use it could be a hurdle, but not a big one.

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Posted (edited)

I think they need more market saturation (and someone besides Philip Bloom to do something serious with their products) before they become viable. It's frustrating because I think their product is superior to just about anything out there in its class, and can easily compete with Red, Arri and the Venice no problem. I would argue it looks better than most of its competitors too and for a fraction of the costs. But their marketing effort is very weak and disorganized. They have little trade show presence and only recently have rental houses picked up the Mavo LF, which is a fantastic camera and should've been a gamechanger for Indie filmmakers (pretty picture, 6K large format for under $10,000!!!). I've heard some people say earlier versions of their cameras were occasionally buggy, which is no good, but again there's so few people out there using them its really hard to know. The one thing they have going for them is superior image quality and fantastic color renditioning, which is what attracted me. The dynamic range of the Mavo LF was not as robust as say an Alexa, but pound for pound, the image quality can be quite stunning and very filmic with little manipulation.

Here's a comparison someone shot. Red Gemini/Alexa Mini/Mavo LF Comparison

And some dynamic range tests Alexa/Monstro/RED/C700/Venice Dynamic Range Tests

Spoiler alert: the Alexa destroys everyone.

Edited by Phil Jackson

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As I have seen it, the biggest problem with Kinefinity cameras has been and still is that you have to purchase one to really be able to test it in real production environment (unless one of your friends has already purchased one and you are able to borrow that camera for your tests).  

So it is this stupid "which came first, chicken or the egg" paradox where one can't purchase a camera which one has not tested personally first in a real production but one cannot test the said camera without purchasing it first. Too risky and expensive for most people to gamble on this. 

That is how I see their market position: no one dares to purchase their cameras because there is too little user experiences with them and there cannot be more real production user experiences because almost no one dares to purchase them for real high budget productions. 

The only way to solve this would be to send a bunch of their cameras to all major rental houses, even for free, so that they would be globally available for real productions and local testing. Only then they could get larger market share and sell more of their cameras. Even giving dozens of camera bodies away for free would benefit them more than the current marketing strategy. 

Just get the camera to real big budget productions. Give them away for free if you have to. No one dares to purchase them now because no one wants to be the first gambler and pay a high price for basic testing which really should be free and easily available. Even RED got this back then and got Peter Jackson and friends to use and market their products. Ridley Scott  etc.    They were easily available in rental houses too. Kinefinity needs to do the same to become successful. 

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It'll be interesting to see how the Edge lands. The feature-set is so robust (and Kinefinity's ecosystem so much more mature than it was previously), that I suspect it'll see a much bigger uptake than they've seen previously.

And the more that are out in the wild, the more accepted they'll become.

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Hey Everyone! Iam a specialised kinefinity dealer in Europe www.gafpagear.com This story sadly doesnt apply to USA or other parts of the world, but in Europe we have a repair centre in Berlin Which does 100% of Kinefinity related repairs, to give it a bit more spice we include 2 years full warranty (both labor and parts), next to that we offer KINECARE as a additional service where you would get a new camera within 24 hours by ups expres, in case of any malfunction. TO make it a bit more fun we have the private fb page 'Kinefinity camera service'  (attend with the s/n of your camera) which is moderated by 4 experts on every part of the world, to get you an answer for any Kinefinity issue. And please remember that most issues are user misstakes and can be fixed within minutes.  In USa we have a bit of tactics;  in Burbank we have Origin cine they dont sell the camera but instead they rent and service the camera's. Cant go too much in depth why we have no dealers in USa, but trust me it aint easy, and there are enough companies interested (including B&H). But lets skip the service part! If anyone has questions about our cameras, please shoot, and I will try my very best to answer every question with god speed! for The all new Kinefinity Mavo edgge we have a dedicated page with all specs which will soon be updated with the first footage... https://www.gafpagear.com/kinefinity-mavo-edge next to that we just finished a blog post about Kinefinites all new recording media, KineMAG NAno, which is by far the fastest recording media for a camera and based on nvme M2 cards. Next to that it will also be extremely cost effective, you can simply by a 80 dollar nvme card (most are fast enough not to bottleneck) and stall it in the dedicated casing (kinemag nano) or buy the whole thing complete. Read all about it here: https://www.gafpagear.com/post/kinefinity-kinemag-nano-the-revolution

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Any updates on the Mavo Edge release date or is it DOA? I am actually thinking about purchasing this one and running tests with it to share results with others. 

Edited by Peter Olejnik

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