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How to make a room safe for an action scene


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Not sure if this is the right forum for this question but people here have always been just as helpful as can be so I'll give it a shot. I'm going to be shooting a personal short soon in the near future. I guess you'd label it in the horror genre but there a scene where one of our characters is attacked by a man twice her size. I'm going to be filming this scene in my parents bathroom. Our main actress will need to fall back in a chair on tile floor, fall to the ground with wrapped in the arms of a man twice her size(maybe not thaaaat big) and be thrown against a wall(I say thrown, but it's more like pushed a distance of 2 feet into wall). I've had many conversation with her about choreography to make sure she's feel safe and comfortable doing this. However, I remember seeing this video on the "Corridor Crew" youtube channel. I think it's this one...

He talks about using insulite to cover a floor and then painting to look like tile. This sounds like it could be necessary to do to the floor for the falls, but whens she get's pushed into the wall would it be necessary to pad the walls aswell. Anyways , not sure anyone will have an answer, but if could some resources or other  forums that would be great.

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My humble opinion that I can give because I am a poor amateur filmmaker is that I am not shooting this scene in the real bathroom.  Because... as a low budget amateur filmmaker, the first thing I should invest in is the actor's safety, and I think the bathroom is a place where accidents are common in everyday life.(and stunt doubles may not have been hired yet).


I think you can cheat if you cover the wall and floor with plywood and tile patterned wallpaper and insulation (as you mentioned) in a suitable space with a floor that is not wet and slippery, and is not a stone material. I think it would be better to cheat with large shower curtains and accessories like acrylic mirrors.


These are just my opinions as I said above and I hope you can get more practical and good opinions from professional cinematographers.

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People can get severely injured with stunts on even the most experienced of sets.

You need to hire an experienced stunt coordinator. Fight scenes require rehearsals, timing, and an exact blocking that if done by an inexperienced individual could lead to serious injury.

Trust me, an experienced stunt coordinator is worth the money. They'll tell you exactly what you will need to do to keep your actors safe.

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At your level (profile says film student), just find actors who aren't soft, willing to take dives. Worrying about insurance and safety when your gear is cheap and no agents are watching over anything is a tad pretentious. If you block out everything properly it won't need to look real on set (won't need to ACTUALLY push her 2 feet to the wall), a lot of low budget fight scenes are crafted in the edit.

My overall point is: you're at the level where mistakes are made. Just make movies.

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Either work with professionals or think of a creative way to stage the action safely.

Maybe block out or storyboard some ideas that allow you to get the same story beats across, but limit the risk to your cast. Sound design, reactions and suggestion can go a long way to selling a hit. 

I've done a scene where an actor falls backwards in a chair. To make it safe we just used a thick crash mat and had them fall out of frame onto the mat. With a convincing thump we never needed a shot where they hit the floor. 

Also bath rooms are particularly tricky, lots of slippery floors and hard surfaces. Would the scene work in a different room (e.g bedroom) where you have a bit more space to make it?
 

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2 hours ago, AJ Young said:

People can get severely injured with stunts on even the most experienced of sets.

You need to hire an experienced stunt coordinator. Fight scenes require rehearsals, timing, and an exact blocking that if done by an inexperienced individual could lead to serious injury.

Trust me, an experienced stunt coordinator is worth the money. They'll tell you exactly what you will need to do to keep your actors safe.

You have to have $$ for that AJ. Some of these poor filmmakers can hardly afford the film stock. As I've told the forum before, artists have to dream and then they try to find a way to get sum...of that dream. 

OP, you should find a gal that is into MMA or boxing and is used to getting beat up. If you can't do it right, dump the shot. Never put in a crappy shot just because your ego demands it. Rewrite the script to fit your skills and budget.

You should try all these stunts yourself OP to see what they feel like. Put some padding on the actors under their clothes or the walls and paint it. Can you do some fast edits of the chair falling back on a thin dense foam pad then a close up cut to the bare floor shot?

If she is in the attackers arms he should be able to break her fall somewhat. You could put a harness around him that has an elastic tether to help keep some of the weight off of her. But all this stuff takes rigging and lots of testing.

One thing to watch for when falling backwards on a chair onto tile floor is hitting your head on the tile. Or she could fall on a hamper of clothes then ono the tile.  And if all else fails, put some nudity in it OP. A nude shot it worth 3 or 4 falling chair shots. 

Good luck...and send in the film when you are done.

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
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10 minutes ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

And if all else fails, put some nudity in it OP.

Thats your answer to everything...

12 minutes ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

A nude shot it worth 3 or 4 falling chair shots. 

That many, have you researched this? How many slaps in the face can you replace with a nude shot? 

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did we learn nothing from Sarah jones' death.

your first priority should be the safety and welfare of your cast and crew,    this is not negotiable.

do the right thing and hire a safety/stunt supervisor

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  • Premium Member

Not to make any specific comment on what's being proposed here, but I think it's important that we recognise there is a grey area between what's just blocking action, and what's stunts.

I presume everyone here knows that proposing that someone hire a stunt coordinator at this level - which will cost thousands in fees, equipment and insurance - is quite simply prohibitive. And yes, perhaps it should be, if we're talking about stuff that really needs it.

So long as action can be blocked in such a way that it falls well on the safe side of the grey area, do that. Modify your ambitions so that they can reasonably be achieved in a way that doesn't require a stunt coordinator, and err very firmly on the side of caution.

Or sell your car for a day of stunt work. Those are the choices you have.

P

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I don't know if its the case in the US, but a lot of UK drama schools do a "stage combat" module or in the case of East 15, a more focused combat focused degree:

https://www.east15.ac.uk/courses/ug00011/1/ba-acting-and-stage-combat

Actors with such a qualification would be able to handle basic fight blocking safely. It's a bigger when you have actors with no experience of this and no expert to control them. E.g slamming a person against a wall could be done the wrong way in a misguided attempt to make it look better. Most combat acting is a about "acting", not taking a hit, but reacting as if you did.

Of course safety should never be taken lightly and even "non stunt" shoots can result in accidents. Often by the result of rushing, scheduling plenty of time is another good safety precaution. 

A good 1st AD with experience of action would also be able to advise if a student coordinator is needed. Again a good 1st should be able to advise on safety issues and be looking out for the cast and crew. Getting an experienced 1st AD on board should be a high priority.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/14/2020 at 10:02 AM, Phil Rhodes said:

Not to make any specific comment on what's being proposed here, but I think it's important that we recognise there is a grey area between what's just blocking action, and what's stunts.

I presume everyone here knows that proposing that someone hire a stunt coordinator at this level - which will cost thousands in fees, equipment and insurance - is quite simply prohibitive. And yes, perhaps it should be, if we're talking about stuff that really needs it.

So long as action can be blocked in such a way that it falls well on the safe side of the grey area, do that. Modify your ambitions so that they can reasonably be achieved in a way that doesn't require a stunt coordinator, and err very firmly on the side of caution.

Or sell your car for a day of stunt work. Those are the choices you have.

P

Well said Phil, I agree with your proposal from both perspectives.

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