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Schneider Cinegon/Cine-Xenon Front Filter Threads


M Joel W

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Hi everyone, another one of these weird questions from me.

I'm looking for step up rings for vintage Schneider Cine-Xenon lenses. So far, the 75mm f2 seems to have 40.5mm front threads I think, and I have successfully gotten a step up ring for that. I'm looking to step up to 82mm, and the 18mm Cinegon seems to already be 82mm.

But for the 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm I have tried I cannot figure out what filter threads to use. They look like 49mm and that's consistent with other lenses from that era, but the 49mm step up rings are a bit loose. Is it some other weird Series filter (series 6.5?) or is it 50mm? I have seen 50mm step up rings but they're rare. I want to use screw on NDs. I appreciate any help. Thanks.

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If it's a very fine thread, it is just part of the lens construction and not meant to hold a filter in. My C-Mount 50mm, 25mm, and 10mm Schneiders are all like this. The fine threads hold in the beauty ring and the optical cell. I've seen the same on older lenses for still film cameras in various formats. Before manufacturers established a thread pitch standard with standard widths, every company did things their own way and either used slip-on filter/hood adapters or used a proprietary ring to adapt series accessories. I know Schneider made a few of these in the 50s and 60s, and I recently looked at the price of one, from a shop in Hong Kong selling it. I could buy another lens for what he was asking. Good luck in your search.

Phil Forrest

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25 minutes ago, Philip Forrest said:

If it's a very fine thread, it is just part of the lens construction and not meant to hold a filter in. My C-Mount 50mm, 25mm, and 10mm Schneiders are all like this. The fine threads hold in the beauty ring and the optical cell. I've seen the same on older lenses for still film cameras in various formats. Before manufacturers established a thread pitch standard with standard widths, every company did things their own way and either used slip-on filter/hood adapters or used a proprietary ring to adapt series accessories. I know Schneider made a few of these in the 50s and 60s, and I recently looked at the price of one, from a shop in Hong Kong selling it. I could buy another lens for what he was asking. Good luck in your search.

Phil Forrest

Thanks for the information. That makes a lot of sense. I saw a Zeiss that was 47mm and a Canon than was 48mm from around then so was hoping it was something standard. Maybe I will try a 50mm ring out of curiosity. It is odd since the 75mm and 18mm are standard sizes and contemporaneous. And visually every other Isco or Schneider lens I have tried from that era is a 49mm thread, as are most Zeiss lenses.

Edited by M Joel W
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Be careful with threading anything in there, and try to use a filter or adapter with a brass ring, like B+W or Heliopan. I know that might be a big investment just to take a chance on a filter but if you use aluminum and the thread pitch or depth is wrong, the metals may bind up, nearly permanently. Then you're stuck using destructive methods (hacksaw, files, dremel) to remove the ring and those fine metal chips can scratch the lens as well as get into the focusing helical. Don't give up, just take your time and find the correct adapter to use. The friction-fit series adapters work pretty well as long as you're not hanging anything too heavy off of them.

Phil Forrest

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Thanks, Philip. I'm deciding between a set of lenses to keep (these and old standard speeds–or both) and I might just go with the standard speeds. Both are really beautiful sets.

Edited by M Joel W
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  • 2 weeks later...

This thread is in danger of becoming my personal journal now I fear, but the 49mm step up ring is a bit too small and 50mm is too big, won't fit.

I asked Raf at RafCamera what the threads are and he did not know. However, he sells two 49.5mm step up rings, which I did not know existed until now:

https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m49-5x0-5-to-m55x0-75

https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m49-5x0-75-to-m55x0-75

It looks like the 49.5mm x 0.75 is the winner. I believe the 10mm f1.8 Cinegon he mentions shares the same front filter size and threads.

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  • 1 year later...

I resurrect this thread to ask Joel if he actually tried the 49.5mm x 0.75 adapter with Schneider Arri lenses. I am in the same situation, trying to find a fitting adapter for 10,16 Cinegon, 25, 50 Cine-Xenon, all of which appear to be the same size, between 49 and 50 mm wide.

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Yes, with mixed results. If I remember correct I tried 49.5X0.5mm by accident and forced it in, then stripped the treads and switched to 49.5X0.75mm and it worked better but also wasn't quite perfect. It didn't screw in all the way. However (I just needed a hood I could use with a matte box) it worked for me. 

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  • 9 months later...
On 6/24/2022 at 11:52 AM, Adriano Cimino said:

Okay, thanks, I am exactly in the same position, trying to adapt a cheap and light filter holder to those lenses. I'll most possibly take your route, then.

Did the 49.5X0.75mm work for you Adriano?

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Hello Adriano,

If you are still looking for an adaptor sized 49.5, there is currently one selling on ebay:  Item #:  194077248492

for $16.20 + $4.00 shipping. (Found under: Harrison Filter).  No I am not the one selling it, nor do I know them.

Unfortunately, the price includes a blue color temperature filter with it... don't know how much use you would have for that.

The one complication with Harrison is that most (if not all), of the time, the retaining ring doesn't have a female thread.

However, any Series 7 will fit. From there it is easy to use Tiffen step-up rings.  Example:  Series 7 to 8;  Series 7 to 9; Series 7 to 3" square;  There are also 4" square filter holders (Tiffen),  Series 9 to 4 1/2 step-up rings and hoods to accomidate whatever size filter you plan on using short of Panavision size and 6x6 etc.   All of which show up from time to time on ebay.

Hope this will help you.

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Adriano,

While looking for something else I stumbled across item # 385469887510 on ebay:  a tiffen 49.5 to series 7 adaptor.

It is only $4.95  with $4.64 shipping.  Shipping to Italy may be more.

The adaptor is black and the retaining ring is silver.

So far, without looking for either item I have found two... but they are here in the USA.  

One cheap, the other not so cheap.

Hope this will help.

 

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Hi, happy Easter and thanks a lot for your help. I don't know if it'll work - I am worried about the right STEP of the thread - but I found a 49.5 to S VII AND a S VII to 62 adapters, sold by the same shop in Germany. I will try them out.

The clamp-on solution is urbane, but it is expensive and a little cumbersome, when in need to change lens quickly. I actually have a clamp-on thing for the Schneiders. It is quick as there are no screws - just to be pushed in - but it's made of plastic and only takes one 2x2 filter a time, without frontal thread. But it is a possibility indeed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I eventually asked a lathe shop. The man - quizzed about that most strange a thread - measured the Schneider-Kreuznach front as follows:

diameter: M49.7

step: 0.718

Although it is not point-perfect, the newly made adapter goes two good turns inside, and stays steadily blocked on the lens. It works for 10mm and 16mm Cinegon; 25mm and 50mm (and hopefully 75mm) Cine-Xenon.

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8 hours ago, Adriano Cimino said:

I eventually asked a lathe shop. The man - quizzed about that most strange a thread - measured the Schneider-Kreuznach front as follows:

diameter: M49.7

step: 0.718

Although it is not point-perfect, the newly made adapter goes two good turns inside, and stays steadily blocked on the lens. It works for 10mm and 16mm Cinegon; 25mm and 50mm (and hopefully 75mm) Cine-Xenon.

That sure sounds like 49.5mm and .75mm with a margin of error to me. My filters from RAFcamera only screw on a thread or two, too.

Fwiw the 75mm is 40.5mm front and the 28mm f2.0 (not that you're using it on S35) vignettes on S35 I believe if you use a screw-on filter adapter. 

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