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DeVry Camera Image Issue


Aaron Martin @ OH

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Hi,

I took an antique DeVry camera for a spin and recently had the film processed and scanned. The camera operates smoothly, but produces a very unsteady image. DeVrys have a simple claw mechanism - any hints on what I might be able to do to improve the image?

Here's the footage showing the issue:

https://vimeo.com/497963524

I'm not expecting that a camera that's at least ninety years old will produce a perfect image, but something a little better would be awesome.

Thanks!

Aaron

Edited by Aaron Martin @ OH
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Aaron,

What filmstock were you shooting?

Feed and exit loop length above and below the film gate are critical.  If you have an imbalance in the loop, it will tend to shift up or down in the gate once the claw retracts on pull-down.  When loading the camera, slowly advance the movement and watch the loops on top and bottom.  If the film tends to raise or lower slightly when the claw retracts, adjust the upper or lower loop until they are  equidistant and the film remains stationary until the next pull-down sequence.

Also, the gate might be oxidized slightly.  Clean the gate with 91% alcohol and an orange wood stick (no metal).  You can find orange wood sticks at a beauty supply; they are used for fingernail cuticle maintenance.  Polish the entire gate area with a lint free cloth.  Buff the guide rails until they shine and blow the interior of the camera out well with canned air to remove any possible lint (lens removed).

If the gate is really cruddy, try polishing the guide rails with a very small amount of metal polish like Flitz, but be sure to clean any residue thoroughly with alcohol to remove every trace of oil or polish left behind!

Examine the claw movement carefully under magnification and carefully clean any foreign matter from the claw.  Is the claw "hooked" or worn heavily on the underside?  Claws can wear down on the underside, forming a "hook" that interferes with stable transport.  A very fine file and light touch can smooth out the underside of the claw, but you have to be extra careful to not over do it!  Go slow and test frequently if you do this repair.  Also, do this a your own risk; if you feel unprepared to do it, find a repair shop who can do it properly.

Frank

PS. One other thing occurred to me;  if you find no problems with the transport mechanism, it could be vibration from the spring motor being sticky when unwinding during the run.  If you wind the camera and run it empty, does it feel like it is vibrating randomly?  If so, the spring motor probably needs to be serviced and re lubricated to run smoothly.

Edited by Frank Wylie
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21 hours ago, Frank Wylie said:

What filmstock were you shooting?

Expired 5222. The film had been sitting for a long time.

Thanks for all the hints on what to look for. I'll check all that stuff out - including the camera vibration - and hopefully I'll be be able to resolve the issue. 

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  • 4 months later...
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It’s been years since I had a DeVry in my hands. As far as I remember the camera doesn’t have an active lateral film guidance such as a leaf spring or something like that. If the gate has wear you’ll never have acceptable steadiness. Solution is to introduce a steel leaf. If you wish, I could do that for you. Burnishing of all film touching parts would be inclusive

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/17/2021 at 12:43 AM, Simon Wyss said:

It’s been years since I had a DeVry in my hands. As far as I remember the camera doesn’t have an active lateral film guidance such as a leaf spring or something like that. If the gate has wear you’ll never have acceptable steadiness. Solution is to introduce a steel leaf. If you wish, I could do that for you. Burnishing of all film touching parts would be inclusive

I am going to consider that. Let me check on shipping and customs charges and get back to you. 

Any chance you could give some pointers on fixing a DeVry with a mistimed shutter?

 

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On 7/2/2021 at 11:04 AM, Simon Wyss said:

Difficult for me to believe that there should be so few film movie equipment technicians in the US.

There are plenty of technicians here in the US, its just a matter of finding one that is willing to take on the work.

Aaron

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On 6/17/2021 at 2:43 PM, Simon Wyss said:

It’s been years since I had a DeVry in my hands. As far as I remember the camera doesn’t have an active lateral film guidance such as a leaf spring or something like that. If the gate has wear you’ll never have acceptable steadiness. Solution is to introduce a steel leaf.

The footage shows mainly vertical unsteadiness, which is probably wear in the claw pivot or wear to the claw itself. There seems to be very little lateral unsteadiness, so a new side spring may not be much help. 

On 7/3/2021 at 1:04 AM, Simon Wyss said:

Difficult for me to believe that there should be so few film movie equipment technicians in the US.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion after contacting one rental house that doesn't repair film cameras. There are plenty of techs in the US who would have worked on film cameras in the past, but many rental houses transitioned to digital a decade ago and companies like Arri or Aaton or Moviecam don't actively support film cameras any more. It took a lot of specialised tools and jigs to properly service high end film cameras and much of that will have been mothballed or disposed of. Most camera techs I know have transitioned to repairing lenses or simply retired. Some of the bigger established rental houses like Keslow, Arri, Panavision, Otto Nemenz, Alan Gordon etc may have service departments willing to take in external repair work or there's AM Camera. Companies like Visual Products or Du-All specialise in more vintage cameras. Unfortunately Bernie at Super16inc, who seemed willing to take on all sorts of jobs, is no longer with us. Local US residents could probably add more names than me, who lives on the other side of the globe.

In the film days (before about 2010) owners and rental houses were prepared to pay thousands of dollars or employ permanent specialists to repair and maintain their cameras, but these days most owners are are not making a good living from their film gear, they are often young filmmakers with limited budgets who picked up a camera once worth tens of thousands for a fraction of that and they don't want to spend what it realistically costs to fully overhaul a camera, or even just get it checked sometimes.  So repairing film movie cameras is very much a niche business now. Repairing ancient cameras like a DeVry, worth a few hundred bucks on ebay, is quite likely not worth a professional's time. You probably want to find a retired technician who likes to tinker. 

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3 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

There are plenty of techs in the US who would have worked on film cameras in the past, but many rental houses transitioned to digital a decade ago and companies like Arri or Aaton or Moviecam don't actively support film cameras any more. It took a lot of specialised tools and jigs to properly service high end film cameras and much of that will have been mothballed or disposed of. Most camera techs I know have transitioned to repairing lenses or simply retired. Some of the bigger established rental houses like Keslow, Arri, Panavision, Otto Nemenz, Alan Gordon etc may have service departments willing to take in external repair work or there's AM Camera. Companies like Visual Products or Du-All specialise in more vintage cameras. Unfortunately Bernie at Super16inc, who seemed willing to take on all sorts of jobs, is no longer with us. Local US residents could probably add more names than me, who lives on the other side of the globe.

In the film days (before about 2010) owners and rental houses were prepared to pay thousands of dollars or employ permanent specialists to repair and maintain their cameras, but these days most owners are are not making a good living from their film gear, they are often young filmmakers with limited budgets who picked up a camera once worth tens of thousands for a fraction of that and they don't want to spend what it realistically costs to fully overhaul a camera, or even just get it checked sometimes.  So repairing film movie cameras is very much a niche business now. Repairing ancient cameras like a DeVry, worth a few hundred bucks on ebay, is quite likely not worth a professional's time.

I know that all. Isn’t a list around of service people?

Anyway, I should take care of the DeVry.

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14 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

The footage shows mainly vertical unsteadiness, which is probably wear in the claw pivot or wear to the claw itself. 

Here is a Dropbox folder with some photos of the claw mechanism in my camera.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o6rgpc8roe3ne59/AAAqHZL8Xq2pQ7uYw6KRbdfBa?dl=0

The claw looks pitted to me, and the head of the claw seems to show the barbs mentioned in another response to this thread. Should I try and clean this up with some steel wool? Anything else jumping out at you guys?

Thanks,

Aaron

 

 

 

 

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Don’t use steel wool, way too coarse. If anything, a very fine jeweller’s file, but be careful not to make it worse or take off too much. It helps to know what the profile should look like.  Did you follow some of Frank’s tips? Make sure the gate is clean and not tarnished, make sure the film slides through the gate without much resistance, the pressure plate is smooth. Maybe clean and relubricate that pivot where the claw is attached. 

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On 7/6/2021 at 10:02 PM, Dom Jaeger said:

  Did you follow some of Frank’s tips?

Yes, I've done everything except polish the gate and rails. I also oiled the pivot where the claw is attached. 

I've added four photos showing the gate, rails and pressure plate to the Dropbox folder. Do you spot any obvious issues?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o6rgpc8roe3ne59/AAAqHZL8Xq2pQ7uYw6KRbdfBa?dl=0

Thanks,

Aaron

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I’ve got the impression that that claw is in a raw state. If you’d send me the camera, I’d investigate the depth of it into the perforation, give it two parallel flats correctly spaced, and make everything slick. I have fine files, oil stones, very fine ceramics, binocular loupes and measuring instruments.

Oil is not the best lubricant for a claw joint, it gets thrown out and it runs off. I’d apply a soft grease.

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