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How to avoid condensation on motion picture film and cans


Seth Baldwin

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Got about 3 400ft rolls of 20 years expired 35mm film that I've been storing in the fridge at 3 degrees Celsius. It has been storming for the past week so the humanity is high. I've noticed that the metal film cans have a bit of moisture on them when I touch them with my finger, they haven't been pulled out of the fridge and have been sitting in there for over a day now. I was wondering if that is a sign there is also moisture inside the can of film it self? Worried of that being the case, I set a bunch of silica gel packets around the cans, waited about 12 hours and they still have moisture. I just now tried wrapping them in tin foil but can't find any information about people doing that online with motion picture stock.

Is this a smart decision? Is there something about tinfoil I don't know when it comes to motion picture stock? Are there better alternatives to avoiding condensation? Is this even an issue?

Cheers.

Edited by Seth Baldwin
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Lol humidity*

Although it's a joke, do I really need to purchase a hygrometer when I can feel the humidity and literally see condensation building on the can. How it occurs honestly isn't even that important, if there's moisture, there is moisture. Bottom line, how can I prevent it? should I roll with tin foil or not?

Edited by Seth Baldwin
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No, look, high relative humidity is something you can do nothing about. What really counts is the climate at the moment you’re exposing. Luckily modern films have hardened coatings and a wax lubricant applied to them. It now only depends on the camera’s gate whether the film will run nicely or start to build up residue or even stick.

Wipe the cans dry, let them accomodate to the ambient climate for at least an hour prior to loading, two hours is better. If you want to get rid of moisture, buy yourself an underwater housing. Stuff that with silica gel bags and let the loaded camera dry in there. No movie camera is airtight, so humidity will enter.

In short, don’t worry.

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One attentive Oz. Excuse me, that was chauvinistic. Yes, modernity started in 1930 and motion-picture manufacture became most modern in 1948. In that year you had (thin-base) polyester stocks, magnetic full-coat stock, and low-rate shrink acetate film. Carnauba wax has been in use since the 1930s. On the camera side we always have the possibility to add a velvet pad to the pressure plate.

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Yes, get a hygrometer. With forced air heat in the winter moisture is low. In summer, humid climates moisture is high...generally speaking. 

Buy bulk white silica gel and a pound of indicator silica gel. It goes from pink to blue when it absorbs moisture. Mix the indicator with the white silica gel. Pour some in used jam jars with no lids and when it changes color regenerate in a hot oven. I used to do it for years when I had lots of guns. But it does not work in rooms unless you got a massive amount. I'm talking using it in gun safes or similar enclosed areas. 

If you are talking about big areas like a basement, then you need to buy an electric dehumidifier. You run a tube from the unit outside or in a drain. If you can't do that you need to empty it every day or two depending on moisture.

Good luck!

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
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Its currently Summer in Australia so yeah I'll get a hygrometer. I have about 100 silica gel packets just creating a little camp fire around the 400ft cans in the fridge. Not sure how useful that is.

Edited by Seth Baldwin
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Why don't you open it up to see?

If you use oversize cans for double reels you can out it metal containers of desiccant that can be regenerated. The little paper packs are probably useless. When they were fresh they work, but if left exposed to humid air they don't absorb moisture any more. You need to get some indicator silica gel to see how fast it gets depleted with moisture in your use of it. If you got lots of little paper packs open them up and you can probably regenerate in the oven. But study it up first. I regenerated the real stuff for many years. But the packets may contain who knows what. 

This give you a good rundown on the type of silica gel

Silica Gel Archives - Desiccants - AGM Container Controls, Inc.

 

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What would be the objective in knowing how fast indicator silica gel becomes depleted with moisture? In any case wouldn't it be better to be safe rather then sorry. At the moment I've still got them wrapped in tin foil, heard tin foil is used for house insulation to stop moisture from entering so thought it would be a good option here. What's your thoughts on that, is there something I dont know about wrapping a film can in tin foil haha?

I ask whether its a negative sign if the film can has moisture because it is a silver metal can, which I imagine would build moisture easier as far as I understand. That's why I'm curious if it will actually mean the film will contain moisture as well.

Edited by Seth Baldwin
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9 hours ago, Seth Baldwin said:

Some older S35 Arriflex most likely.

If the can has moisture on the outside (condensation), is that a sign the film contained inside will also?

Forgive me again, I’m such an old fashioned and bourgeois-elitist educated central European that I don’t understand today’s abbreviated sign language. What do you mean by S35, Super 35 oder Standard 35? I can assure you that I know the Arnold & Richter cameras.

Since you stated EXR on the film which stands for extended range sensitivity I presume a Kodak color negative stock. As I said make sure the air in the camera is dry so that the film can lose moisture. You can as well use rice in fabric bags in lieu of silica.

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