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Lubrication for an Arri BL


Mark Williams

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Lav

 

"on a BL to focus pull you got to turn the entire blimp, and that alone can cause jerky moves..."

 

I had hoped the Blimp would act like a follow focus and work as well without the Hassle.. I havnt noticed any Camera jerkiness from my Satchler the whole setup stays still...As for flying I think I will just use Tracks.. and perhaps improvise crane Or steadycam..I think though that is the least of My worries the real problem is getting good actors! I think a lot of indie films suffer on this score.. No amount of camera work editing ect can make up for this...The worst Camera work can be passable IF the acting is good even when every rule ever written is broken in the worst way and the camera is crying out look at me.. Good acting can still overcome this...

 

Annie I bet you would find inconsistancies and differences in every Camera..

Arri grease? Who sells it?

 

:D

Edited by Mark Williams
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Found some arri grease at Film Tools Problem Is though the Postage makes it to expensive Also found out about the Oil which I just happened to have here B)

 

Thats good news Mark. What brand Oil is it in the end?

Are you planning to use your BL sometime soon? If so, what kind of project do you have in mind>

 

 

 

And Spikey, I wouldnt mind doing an exercise as such either... putting the two cameras through same conditions and checking them out... It is a lovely idea, we should form a competition once a year, where folks from forum bring their own gear in the best condition they can (Done up to the max and all) and test it for loudness!? Oh hold on, wrong forum, I was thinking bout my subs in the boot... :D

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Thats good news Mark. What brand Oil is it in the end?

Hi Lav

 

I went to the film tools site and searched for arri grease WHICH came back wth "Arri Grease" So I thought OKey Type in Arri Oil and it came back with

 

http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsea...X+OIL&x=15&y=10

 

After clicking on this link and looking at the Picture I thought THAT looks suspiciously like something I already have! And I did :) So I oiled it (BL) and it sounds better! RESULT :)

 

Are you planning to use your BL sometime soon? If so, what kind of project do you have in mind

Hmm I have various types of stock stored in the refridgerator.. Its been difficult to do anything lately because I have had the Builders in..The good news is this has given me a Nice room dedicated to film making.. IE Micro sets Compositing ect..

 

I WANT A FANTASTIC SCRIPT

 

For a small cast.. Anyone know of ONE.. please let me know.. Im initially looking to make a short but this could be expanded on with the right Script ...If there are any writers out there or anyone who knows someone who wants to help Please let me know... I may not make any Money But it wont be through lack of trying.. For the right script perhaps a fee could be fixed on potential Profits... :)

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Hi Mark,

 

it would be good if you lived closer in Oz somewhere, I could use all the help I could get in the midst of this new feature film... :D a multiple BL set-up shoot, that would be fun! I'll soon make a web site for the film I am still trying to get up and organise, I'll post the link once that is done, via which I will be able to keep everyone up to date...

 

Getting a great script is essential and I am about to send mine for workshopign with Australian Guild of Writers, for the sake of getting back a well edited draft... I fear not investing into this particular stage of production, even if it means loosing some fency shots, as its the story and the dialogue that will hold it all together in the end.. and of course, as you mentioned perviously, good acting... but that I will wip in the place :D

 

Cheers mate,

Lav

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Hi Mark,

 

  it would be good if you lived closer in Oz somewhere, I could use all the help I could get in the midst of this new feature film... :D a multiple BL set-up shoot, that would be fun!  I'll soon make a web site for the film I am still trying to get up and organise, I'll post the link once that is done, via which I will be able to keep everyone up to date...

 

Getting a great script is essential and I am about to send mine for workshopign with Australian Guild of Writers, for the sake of getting back a well edited draft... I fear not investing into this particular stage of production, even if it means loosing some fency shots, as its the story and the dialogue that will hold it all together in the end.. and of course, as you mentioned perviously, good acting... but that I will wip in the place :D

 

Cheers mate,

Lav

 

I wish I was there too! Instead of the Miserable weather here..And it would be really great to work on a project with someone else a problem shared is a problem halved!

If I could make any Film I wanted.. At this moment in Time...It would be Ennio Morricones Music.. Steven spielbergs Camera Moves.. Bladerunner city.. with a star wars story about sinbad.. Hidden dimensions.. Alternate Characters..

 

Itd be so fast moving you would feel you hadnt watched a film at all but had been on a ride..The script wouldnt have to be Intelligent...Just some nice unexpected surprises twists and turns.. Perhaps the Writer could meet the actors and some improvising going on...Oh well...One Day... ;)

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  • 12 years later...

 

I have a 16 BL EQ.

From the Samuelson manual

"special oil pens required to depress steel balls which protect oil holes. Lubricate 1 point on BL,......every 30,000ft."

Unfortunately no illustration but you should be able to identify an oil ball.

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I suspect that one is the only one you're supposed to do yourself. I don't know where you got your information, but are you sure the others aren't meant to be done by a technician for an overhaul? According to Samuelson's only 35mm. cameras require regular user lubrication at more than one or two points.

Edited by Mark Dunn
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I got it off of this thread but it could be referring to door hinges and other less essential parts.

Aargh, so you did, I didn't read it. Arris do seem to require a lot less lubrication than the American designs- the movements are very different. I think you're right. I wouldn't be putting oil anywhere near film.

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A great example here of the internet creating Chinese whispers..

 

The diagram in question is this one:

post-46614-0-12160600-1532396900_thumb.jpg

 

There are 11 points identified but only the first one is a lubrication point, and it only lubricates a gear that is not even part of the transport mechanism.

 

As was earlier mentioned in this thread by Tim Carroll, there are no service manuals for Arriflex cameras, only exploded parts diagrams, wiring schematics or occasional guides for very simple procedures like take-up tension adjustment. (The one exception is the 2C.) Actual service information was passed on at Arri training sessions or from one technician to another. There were at least 4 seperate lubricants used in a 16S or 16BL, mainly greases, and to dismatle and reassemble the camera properly (so that all the fine settings are maintained) requires specialised tools and knowledge.

 

To relubricate a 16BL you need to dismantle it completely. This is the movement of a 16S removed (which is similar to a BL):

post-46614-0-40795100-1532398935_thumb.jpg

 

To properly get to the gears and bearings in order to clean and relubricate them, the movement needs to be stripped down to this:

post-46614-0-21822500-1532398983_thumb.jpg

 

Unfortunately, there are very few technicians left who know a 16BL this well, and the cost of such a service is probably enought to buy a newer, better camera.

 

My advice would be to keep using the BL until it fails, and then buy an SR or Aaton.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Premium Member

Haven't serviced a 16S, S/B, M or BL in over eight years. For a thorough CLA, back in the 2000's, it was near $1000. And as Dom mentioned, we stripped the movement down completely (his image shows some bearings still installed, all of those came out and went into the ultrasonic cleaner). Then we would rebuild them exactly as they had at the factory. The thing with those cameras is that each one was hand made, so each camera was rebuilt "hand made" with multiple adjustment points along the way. Very time consuming. But when the camera was completely rebuilt, it would "sing". For about four years, then you had to redo everything again. That's one of the drawbacks of "wet" cameras.

 

Best,

-Tim

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Dom, (or others with the knowledge)

Would you ever consider making a service and repair guide for the Arri 16S similar to your Arri 35 Cinetinker blog?

I really hope someone with knowledge, skill and love of this camera will do this at some point. I fear the knowledge will die long before the cameras are ready to give up. I understand the special tools and gauges aspect is an issue, and not knowing the specific requirements, I have no idea of how practical it would be to make the required tools that can no longer be found or to develop replacement jigs and gauges. My own experience in engineering and optomechanics would lead me to think this would be possible if more detail about the specific issues were available.

One simple example is the take-up reel tension adjustment. This is easily adjusted using the Arri tool made specifically for the task. However, the adjustment could also be made if one knows the required tension value gauged by the Arri tool. What is that value? Can anyone actually answer that? I would bet most experienced technicians know this tension setting by feel alone.

Flange focal distance is another example. Simple tools can an be used to gauge this distance. These tools are not cheap but neither are they prohibitively expensive.

Tension measurements can be easily tested but the specifications must be known.

Certainly, skilled service is still available but service cost limits the practicality to professional users. The skilled hobbyist has zero chance to perform detailed service given the current state of available documentation.

Please tell me if I am way off the mark but I think there are many skilled hobbyists out there dying for guidance that would give them a fighting chance. I know I am.

Aloha

(Sorry for this double post but the other was in a long dead thread so hopefully this will be more likely viewed here)

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Hi Mark,

 

Yes I actually have a series of photos from the last complete 16St service I did about 5 or 6 years ago that I was planning to use in a blog post about 16St service, but at the time I decided against it. Partly because a little information can be dangerous in the wrong hands and these exquisite cameras are easily damaged or maladjusted if someone doesnt know enough, and partly because I didnt want to take income away from the few specialists still making a living from this work.

 

But maybe Ill put the photos up with some brief instructions. I dont have the time (or quite frankly remember all the idiosyncrasies of the camera) to write a thorough service guide, which requires a number of tools and jigs that only techs had access to anyway. I was also much more familiar with later camera models and 35mm so my experience is not as thorough as a more specialised 16S tech like Tim for example.

 

But the photos are a guide to disassembly and lubrication, and some of the things to watch out for when reassembling. If I find time Ill try to work on it. That whole blog is a labour of love, so it may take a while in between actually earning a living.

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