Karim D. Ghantous Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Just recently I reminded myself of a concept I dreamed up in 2016. The concept was a 'new' film format, based on 127 rollfilm. The point was to find a format that gave more surface area than S35, but wasn't as cumbersome as Vistavision, nor as expensive as 65mm. Pulling film by 4 perforations is much better than pulling by 8. Also, a vertical transport is more operator friendly than is a horizontal transport. Now, forget the practicalities of establishing a new format. We all know it's not an easy thing to do. The film is the easy bit, but the cameras, lab equipment and scanners are not. What I want to ask you all is one simple question: if it existed, would you use it, and do you think others would use it? I only included full frame and 16:9 comparisons with 35mm and 65mm, but you could of course imagine other configurations. For example, a 3-perf 46mm frame is over twice the surface area of a 2-perf 35mm frame. It's also slightly more than 4-perf 35, so you could have a 2.35:1 aspect with approximately the same surface area as anamorphic 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted May 20, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted May 20, 2021 It would be very cool. Easy to do as well, converting large format cameras and projectors would be not that difficult. I actually have a low-cost dream format; Horizontal 4 perf 16mm. Giving you a 2.40:1 aspect ratio image. Wider than Super 35mm, but using a much less costly stock. You'd have to develop a special camera and convince Kodak to make 1200ft rolls again, but very doable honestly, especially using a vista vision scanner with a different gate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted May 20, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted May 20, 2021 Not sure it would be cheaper — if you do the math, you basically pay for negative real estate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 20, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted May 20, 2021 I would suspect that something like VistaVision probably serves much the same purpose. Are there any even vaguely practical modern VistaVision cameras? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted May 21, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted May 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Phil Rhodes said: Are there any even vaguely practical modern VistaVision cameras? Yea there are, but there was only one sync-sound camera made. My friend Ben spent years tracking it down and owns it. Obviously not as "modern" as an Arricam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karim D. Ghantous Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said: It would be very cool. Easy to do as well, converting large format cameras and projectors would be not that difficult. I actually have a low-cost dream format; Horizontal 4 perf 16mm. Giving you a 2.40:1 aspect ratio image. Wider than Super 35mm, but using a much less costly stock. You'd have to develop a special camera and convince Kodak to make 1200ft rolls again, but very doable honestly, especially using a vista vision scanner with a different gate. I like your optimism! Usually I'm the guy who's like, "WE CAN DO IT." But here, I'm not holding my breath. ? As for the horizontal 16mm idea, I'm not a fan of a long horizontal movement. The magazines have to be wider, or you lose running time. I'm not a fan of VV either, FWIW. Just IMHO! I do want to see a 2-perf 16mm SLR camera. 110 will have to do for now though. 8 hours ago, Phil Rhodes said: I would suspect that something like VistaVision probably serves much the same purpose. Are there any even vaguely practical modern VistaVision cameras? P Yes, it does. But, running time per foot for VV would be less than for 4-perf 46mm. And you have to deal with a horizontal transport. But, the VV negative is noticeably bigger. Pick your value point. Film stocks are so good now that you could replace 65mm with 46mm; and 15-perf 65mm with 8-perf for IMAX. Especially if you are using 50D stock. This also assumes that you are scanning the camera negative for a digital deliverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Palmer Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Just now, Phil Rhodes said: I would suspect that something like VistaVision probably serves much the same purpose. Are there any even vaguely practical modern VistaVision cameras? P Ellston Bay used a Beaumont, and then was released in Imax, in 2018. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5852116/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted May 21, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted May 21, 2021 How about finding a Howell-Dubray camera from 1930? They had Economic Wide 46 mm, Spectacular Wide 52 mm, and Extreme Wide 61,3 mm. Some infrastructure such as perforators might still subsist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Ian Vu Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 You could always dig up the Cinemiracle cameras from whatever ancient tomb they reside in. Those ought to be able to run independently, with modifications. I believe each had their own motor and shutter, unlike the Cinerama system. Assuming you could modify it for horizontal operation, that would give you a six perf negative, about 28mm x 25mm. That would make for a great mini-Imax format. Or shoot with Cooke 1.8x anamorphics and have a range of choices from 2:1 to 2.35:1. There ought to be at least three of them somewhere in the world. Added bonus: Six perf projectors already exist (Cinerama) and were functional as recently as 2012. Not horizontal, though. I have no idea what the operation of these cameras were like. Perhaps they were louder than a hydrogen bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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