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sebastian

Super 8 Pressure Plate

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Hey,

 

I was wondering if its worth buying the super 8 mm Pressure Plate. It?s quite expensive, so is it really worth it???

 

Thanks

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Could you please clarify? I thought the "pressure plate" is part of the Super-8 cartridge design, as specified in Standard SMPTE 159.2?

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I think Sebastian is talking about a removable pressure plate developed by Andec FilmTechik ( A German company) It's a tiny little piece of cromed steel that sits inbetween the Kodak pressure plate and the film and further steadies the film in the gate as well as increasing image sharpness. I shot a load of K40 with one I borrowed in Australia but have yet to see the final results, Apparantly results are very good but it's very very easy to leave it in a can and send it away for processing by mistake, I doubt it would ever be seen again :o

Olly

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Well, at 140 Euros per plate, I don't think we can build it into each film cartridge. ;) Let us know the results of the test.

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Hello John, I have been reading your comments for a while now, and thank you because I've learned sooooo much!

I think all small filmmakers are grateful for Kodaks continuing support for Super8. I was wondering if there are any new filmstocks coming with process paid?

I live in N.Ireland and it's very difficult to find a lab anywhere.

 

By the way I hear U2's new music video is to be filmed on Super8?! This should be plugged to the limits by Kodak!

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I don't know about the "process paid" film packaging (as that is often specific to certain regions of the world), but I do know that some of the new VISION2 Color Negative Films (including 7218) will soon be available in Super-8.

 

U2 has used Super-8 before:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...872774?v=glance

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...365669?v=glance

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The pressure plate is a simple-enough mechanism, but being covered with super-slick material is its true secret. It would not be difficult for Kodak or anyone else to incorporate the design into a cart.

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Downix wrote:

 

It would not be difficult for Kodak or anyone else to incorporate the design into a cart.

 

I would assume they have a patent on the "super slick", "true secret" coating? :rolleyes:

 

Their website does say:

 

It is protected by law. Copying is prohibited and is liable to criminal prosecution. Patent No. 20204191.3

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I spoke to these guys alot a while back, it seems they have to machine each plate individually hence the hefty price tag, I think it took him like 10 years to perfect it or something!

Olly

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I haven't shot with one, but I think it's probably one of those things that's only going to benefit those with cheap cameras.

I say that, because I've shot tons of Super 8 with good cameras, and I've never had any image unsteadiness.

In fact, I've been surprised at how steady and sharp the images are, especially with my Nikon R-10 camera.

 

Matt Pacini

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I have not used the pressure plate at all myself, but my feeling is similar to Matt Pacini.

 

A lot of the super8 cameras in use out there are worn and poorly serviced for obvious reasons and a lot of the time the pressure plate insert helps registration because it is compensating for wear and/or poorly set up cameras.

 

what is really needed is a new super8 camera for the 21 centuary. People have disagreed with me on this, but if one was built it would illustrate that super8 is alive and well and indicate that more people should look at it as a viable format for various applications.

 

A new camera could be brought up to date with the professional in mind rather than, as is the case even with the high end Beaulieu, having one eye on the amateur point and shoot market, which now no longer exits.

 

But who would make it? :unsure:

 

I am sure there would be a market and whilst I am sure it would be quite pricy, many people would be interested in renting anyway.

 

I think Kodak should sponsor one of the existing manufacturers and aid the development of a new super8 camera :D

 

Matt

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".... if one was built it would illustrate that super8 is alive and well and indicate that more people should look at it as a viable format for various applications...."

Showing that something is "alive & well" is not why companies gear up and spend incredible amounts of R&D money to mass manufacture products, so all the statements I hear about "what a message it would send" or whatever are just totally irrelevant.

 

It just is not ever going to happen, period.

 

Why?

Because there are far more Super 8 cameras already out there than there are Super 8 shooters.

Even if everyone who says they would love a new modern S8 camera actually would buy one (and I doubt it), it's just not the kind of numbers to justify the R&D and manufacturing costs, and most importantly, there's no factor for a company to think this is going to be a huge growth market, like say digital still cameras are.

 

I love S8, I've shot tons of it, so I'm not being down on the format, I'm just stating the realities from what I see is the standpoint of a camera manufacturer.

It would be insane to do this, and the cameras would cost thousands of dollars.

They'd sell about 150 of them, tops.

 

 

Matt Pacini

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".... if one was built it would illustrate that super8 is alive and well and indicate that more people should look at it as a viable format for various applications...."

Showing that something is "alive & well" is not why companies gear up and spend incredible amounts of R&D money to mass manufacture products, so all the statements I hear about "what a message it would send" or whatever are just totally irrelevant.

I'm not suggesting that the justification for researching and manufacturing a new super8 camera should be to illustrate the format still exists - far from it. I was indicating that this would be a fringe benefit.

 

Obviously, in the real world, there needs to be a market to support any product, but I would love to know how the market for super8 stock is split up - how much is actually being sold on a month by month basis, who is buying what, which stocks are popular with whome etc. This would be the starting point for examining the viability of a new camera.

 

The other question is - are there any philanthropists out there with an interest in filmaking and the super8 format who would like to fund and new cam? :D

 

Matt

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@Matt

 

The discussions of "new features a new Super8 cam must have" inspired me to make myself a custom camera. If I make it and people are interested in me making more, I'll consider it, but for now it's a personal project for my own enjoyment.

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I would think it would make more sense to modify an existing camera, than create a whole new one.

I mean, if you're planning on making one yourself.

Re-engineering the entire thing would be insanely difficult and expensive, many tens of thousands of dollars, at the very least.

I wish I had the $$$ & spare time that you have!

That's quite an ambitious do-it-yourself project!

 

Matt Pacini

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@Matt

 

Well, technically it is a "re-engineered" camera, I'm cannibalizing from several broken cameras I own for the prototype. I'm opting for new prisms however, so as to get the cleanest image possible.

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Another solution could be doing research whether any former manufacturer of Super 8 still has the tools and castings in store. Some companies keep them even after production stops for a certain item because tools are expensive.

 

A good classic Super 8 camera could be a starting point for new features and additions, but I think the R&D in the optical department will be enormous. I spoke to a former employee of BAUER's Super 8 division, and he told me that they actually lost money on their Bauer 715XL Microcomputer top model, not because they had to design a new camera and all those great features, but because it cost so much to have a top zoom lens custom designed by the Angenieux Company.

 

But maybe it would be easier to build/convert Double Super 8 cameras from 16mm models, the best Super 8 I ever saw was DS 8 from well proven cameras like Bolex or Canon Scoopic in DS8 format. Maybe Canon still has the parts, tools and castings for that camera, who knows...?

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Maybe Canon still has the parts, tools and castings for that camera, who knows...?

Canon keeps almost everything it's ever built. The problem here is that good quality 16mm cams are not that cheap. Sure, you could modify a Keystone or some such, but they're so low-end it is not worth it, for the same price you could get a regular Super8.

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Hi guys,

Hope everyone is staying safe during these times.

Sorry for bringing such an old thread back up, but I was wondering, does anyone still have one of these by any chance??? :) 

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These GK Super 8 pressure plates are rare as not that many were made.  After reviewing all the initial testing done on them, as well as my own tests, I find that it's not really worth it.  IF you wipe the film gate prior to each cartridge load with some soft cotton flannel that has been moistened with either Movie Film Cleaner with lubricant, or a good quality Silicone spray (one that doesn't harm plastic, and wait several minutes until the propellant has evaporated prior to wiping the gate.  I keep one in a small zip lock bag in my camera bag so that I can always do this)....then the film will glide right through the gate easily.  

- - - -  The KODAK made Super 8mm film is already lubricated  inside the cartridge, however this helps, especially on humid days.  Note, the pressure plate built into the cartridge is very strong....and from a pure technical standpoint, isn't the same as a pressure plate in a conventional spool loading movie camera.    It rests against two raised dimple areas on either side of the Super 8mm film gate, otherwise it would actually be too much pressure against the film!  Once against these raised areas, it creates a 'channel' through which Super 8mm film passes through.  Thinner based film might have a little bit of play, and thicker based films will run tighter (thus the lubrication of the gate and film helps).  

- - - -  Adding this smooth metal film pressure plate to the cartridge still really only rests against those two raised dimples on either side of the gate....it doesn't really press any more against the film itself.  The smooth polished metal surface helps the film glide over it's surface...but the cartridge already has a smooth plastic pressure plate, and the film lubricant on the film itself in the cartridge does the same thing.  I have also wiped that plastic pressure plate, and this has helped in hot humid summer weather, when film emulsion swells upon opening the foil pack, as the humid air comes contact with the film and swells the emulsion a bit.  This can cause film jamming or sticking, as many have experienced with Super 8 cartridges at times.   Wiping the gate, and even that pressure pad has eliminated any sticking for me over decades of use.  Of course...sometimes during the manufacturing process of the Super 8 cartridges when film is loaded, there can be the rare event where the film is too tight on the stationary hub and won't rotate easily causing a jam, or some other anomaly.  These can be cleared up via cartridge opening and reloading in a darkroom (best done by someone that can do this of course....but certainly no need to throw film out....not at what it costs these days!).

IF you persist and eventually locate the GK Super 8 Pressure Plate, just be diligent to remove it each time you finish a cartridge, as you could lose it easily if you don't  when sending it to a lab for processing.  Good luck, hope this helps.

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