British Film Schools

[Max Jacoby]

I speak mainly on behalf of the dozens and dozens and literally dozens of people I've come across who clearly had the ability to be top-flight, but who will never get the chance to exercise their abilities.

 

Phil

 

Has it ever occured to you that those you don't make it are simply not good enough? Blaming other people or the 'situation' is always easier than blaming yourself of course.

 

I know plenty of people who made it in the UK film industry. And they are top notch, certainly better than your whole Hoxton Square combined.

[Stuart Brereton]

The Film Industry traditionally attracts far more people than it is capable of supporting. This is true here in the UK, where the industry is small, and it is also true in the US where the industry is huge. There is always going to be competition for work, and it is not always the most talented person that gets the work. There is more to being a freelance technician than just ability. You have to aggressively self-market, you have schmooze, you have to be friendly, helpful, available. You have to be a 'can-do' kind of person, not a whiner. You have to be the kind of person that other people want to work with.

 

You also have to be extremely determined, and accept the fact that it is probably not going to happen overnight for you. I'm sure that there are plenty of talented people who never 'made it', because they lacked the determination, or self confidence, or whatever. David Mullen said recently that he spent 10 years earning less than $20,000 a year working on indie features. I'll bet that wasn't easy, and I'll bet there were times when he thought about chucking it all in and getting a 'real' job, but it's paid off for him now. Determination, or bloody-mindedness or whatever you want to call it.

 

The vast majority of people will never get to shoot a big Hollywood feature. Does that mean they should give up camera work altogether? Of course not, you just have to accept it and realise that you can still make a living shooting less prestigious projects.

 

Phil, you're right to point out that this is a tough business to be in, but there are lots of professions equally difficult to crack. Any self-employed person knows how tough it can be to establish yourself, whether you're a bricklayer or a focus puller. It's fine to sound a cautionary note to others, to help them understand what they're getting into, but PLEASE, don't insult the abilities of other freelancers just because they are somewhere you're not.

[Phil Rhodes]

All I can say is that I know a lot of people who are dog tired of hearing that uninspired, patronising lecture.

 

> The Film Industry traditionally attracts far more people than it is capable of supporting.

 

Never! You don't say! That's exactly what I've been saying, and you've been objecting to it!

 

> it is not always the most talented person that gets the work.

 

Hang on, I've been saying that as well, and you've been objecting to that as well! Make up your mind!

 

> You have to aggressively self-market, you have schmooze, you have to be friendly, helpful, available.

 

I object to this statement. You have to be in work to do this. You can't aggressively self-market, schooze or be friendly if you're sitting at home watching daytime TV. This sort of thinking is generally called "closed-shop".

with.

 

> David Mullen said recently that he spent 10 years earning less than $20,000 a year working on indie

> features.

 

And if you're doing one quality indie feature a year, that's money well spent. However, if, as in the UK, you're doing two badly-organised PD-150 shoots a year, neither of which achieve anything like professional output, that's a complete waste of time. Once again, you're fallaciously equating the UK situation with the US one. Be competent and able in LA and you will work on 35mm features. Hang around for ten years in the UK and all the industry will give you is debt.

 

> The vast majority of people will never get to shoot a big Hollywood feature. Does that mean they should

> give up camera work altogether?

 

No. The fact that in the UK they'll never make a decent living wage, be able to put down a deposit on a house, pay into a pension or support their kids is the reason they should give up camera work altogether. To our original correspondent - do you want kids? A house? A retirement? If so, I say it again - forget filmmaking, because it will not pay your way.

 

> Any self-employed person knows how tough it can be to establish yourself, whether you're a bricklayer or

> a focus puller.

 

That may be the world's most astonishingly bad example. The manual trades are currently in enormously short supply. A relative of mine is a cabinetmaker and walks in the door every night shaking off crowds of potential clients. But it's not that that worries me. I'd almost rather have the overtly closed-shop situation they have in the US, where at least you get a clear signal that you've failed.

 

> It's fine to sound a cautionary note to others, to help them understand what they're getting into, but

> PLEASE, don't insult the abilities of other freelancers just because they are somewhere you're not.

 

I'm not insulting anyone who doesn't deserve it, and I'm most certainly not doing it for that reason. How many times - I'm an ENG camera operator for God's sake, I'm the lowest of the low, I'm easily the most disposable, replaceable, semi-skilled, working-class grunt who comes anywhere near what most people would call filmmaking and there's not a lot of point in dressing the situation up. As Kubrick said, you can learn my job in a week. Whether that has anything to do with the larger situation in this country I wouldn't hazard a guess, but this isn't about me. I'd say that there are three strata of film and TV people in this country - the top level A-grade people who make Harry Potter and James Bond, and there's probably a couple of hundred such individuals in the country - we can't employ any more. Then there's the second tier of ads and promos people, who number probably a couple of thousand, then there's the tens of thousands of guys like me with basic skills on an ENG camera.

 

If you accept that, and figure out that only tier 1 is going to pay a living wage and you have so little chance of getting there as to be completely irrelevant, you will realise what the situation is. You still going to argue with me?

 

Phil

[Stuart Brereton]

All I can say is that I know a lot of people who are dog tired of hearing that uninspired, patronising lecture.

 

What's patronising about it? Surely it's better than simply telling people not to bother?

 

> The Film Industry traditionally attracts far more people than it is capable of supporting.

 

Never! You don't say! That's exactly what I've been saying, and you've been objecting to it!

 

You were saying that the situation is different in the US

> You have to aggressively self-market, you have schmooze, you have to be friendly, helpful, available.

 

I object to this statement. You have to be in work to do this. You can't aggressively self-market, schooze or be friendly if you're sitting at home watching daytime TV.

 

Object all you like, it happens to be true. Of course you can market yourself. You send out reels, cvs. You join a crewing agency. You make contacts at the production companies. If you're sitting at home watching daytime TV, then no wonder the work isn't flooding in.

 

Be competent and able in LA and you will work on 35mm features. Hang around for ten years in the UK and all the industry will give you is debt.

 

'Hang around' anywhere for ten years and you'll end up in debt. You have to be proactive. And forget this idea that Hollywood has an abundance of work. There are just as many failures there as here

 

No. The fact that in the UK they'll never make a decent living wage, be able to put down a deposit on a house, pay into a pension or support their kids is the reason they should give up camera work altogether. To our original correspondent - do you want kids? A house? A retirement? If so, I say it again - forget filmmaking, because it will not pay your way.

 

This is absolute bollocks. I know many camera people and all of them manage to make a decent wage, buy a house blah blah blah. I do it myself, and I'm not shooting features. There is plenty of money to be made working in TV and corporate work.

 

I'm not insulting anyone who doesn't deserve it,

You actually said 'we are crap'. In the absence of any qualifiers, I take that to mean all British crew. That is undeserved and unfair.

 

You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder the size of a house brick. If you're so bitter and disillusioned about this industry, why do you still work in it? Why don't you take your own advice and find something else to do instead of whining about how your life didn't turn out the way you wanted it.

[Jonathan Spear]

"""> The vast majority of people will never get to shoot a big Hollywood feature. Does that mean they should give up camera work altogether?

 

No. The fact that in the UK they'll never make a decent living wage, be able to put down a deposit on a house, pay into a pension or support their kids is the reason they should give up camera work altogether. To our original correspondent - do you want kids? A house? A retirement? If so, I say it again - forget filmmaking, because it will not pay your way."""

 

--------

 

 

 

You really sound like you're in the wrong profession. And it's a shame because you seem to know your way around a camera and the majority of your posts are interesting and informative.

 

There probably isn't any specific "formula" for success in the film industry, but even a newbie like me can spot someone who's holding himself back. The next time you go off about how much the UK industry sucks, picture your favorite established DP or director saying something along the lines of:

 

"I can't do it. All the odds are against me and I'll never make it in this industry."

 

What makes you think the odds were any different against someone like Conrad Hall, George Lucas, Woody Allen, Ingmar Bergman, Harris Savides, Brad Pitt, Katherine Hepburn, Tom Hanks, Steven Speilberg, etc etc etc etc etc?

[Stephen Williams]

then there's the tens of thousands of guys like me with basic skills on an ENG camera.

 

Phil

 

 

Phil,

 

Don't under sell yourself, you have far more than basic ENG camera skills! I was told this by a well respected commercials DoP who lives in Devon!

 

Stephen

[Max Jacoby]

Phil

 

If your prospects are really so grim, then I don't understand either why you don't take your own advice and choose a different career path? What keeps you in the film industry?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Well, I guess I could go and present for some other job with an effectively empty CV, from their point of view, but I don't somehow think that's very realistic. I'm trying to make it clear that this is the situation you can expect from the film industry here and if I can save one person from finding himself in the same dire situation then I've achieved something.

 

On top of which, I'm not in the "film industry" in any very meaningful sense. I do corporate promos at best.

 

And I'm not sure that Geoff has ever seen a single frame of anything I've shot, so I don't know who you're talking about!

 

Phil

[gregory mandry]

I think the initial question from sid was are there any good film schools in the uk i'm sure sid is bowledover with everyone's concern for his well being however the question still remains.

 

It is important to know what level you are at sid?

 

- there are a few good courses at FE level

 

- at degree level you have ravensbourne, Surrey Institute (farnham), Westminster Uni (at Harrow now i think), Bournmouth art college, the London college of printing used to do a course, Bristol used to do a post grad course. I know these are all london based and a bit out of date but its the best I can do.

 

I would suggest you find a course that has a large practical content and probably best to avoid anthing vaguely media studies like (Personal choice I know).

 

Oh and if you are asked by a hang-gliding enthusiast where a cliff is. Don't tell them how dangerous it is or how crazy they are or whether you could do it. Point them in the direction of the cliff.

[Stephen Williams]

And I'm not sure that Geoff has ever seen a single frame of anything I've shot, so I don't know who you're talking about!

 

Phil

 

Phil,

 

He spoke very highly of you as a DP!, and that was at the start of the evening!

 

Stephen

[Guest dbledwn11]

This debate has gone on so long now I wouldn't even know where to begin tieing all the strands together so I will leave my response to deal with just one aspect of what Phil has said so far because it strikes me as the most depressing. Phil said: "Do not invest time, money or effort in the UK film industry, because it absolutely will not repay you."

 

It's people like you Phil who only make the situation worse. How are we supposed to cultivate a thriving film industry (that could at least compete with US dominance in the world film market) if people like you paint such a bleak picture and infect others with your negative attitude.

 

The fact you are already "in the system" worries me greatly because you have direct access to those working alongside you and I am confident in your ability to convert even the most optimistic crew or cast memeber with your dis-illusioned ways. You alone could be the beginning of an pandemic - you seem to be on a one man crusade to finish off the entire British film and television industry.

 

But hey, yeh, fck it, who wants to be a part of a British film revival if it means no money and no glory. Jesus - I got an idea Phil why don't you start supporting the industry. There are people in Britain, like myself, who want to make films (good ones of course) and who are prepared to work as hard as they can (and more) to create something that people around the world (including the mighty US) will stand up and take notice of. Thats the whole fcking point of being a pioneer or at least working at a time when there are pioneers around trying to make radical changes. cause at least then you can be a part of something and be proud of it.

 

Now you might not care about any of this and thats fine, but i'm telling you there are people who want the situation to improve and they are gonna try their damn hardest to see it happen. You could at least show some respect to these people by trying to adopt a slightly more positive outlook.

 

In the end you can have your opinion, but please if you're gonna write something like "Do not invest time, money or effort in the UK film industry" please think twice cause there are still people who have faith and need all the support they can get.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> How are we supposed to cultivate a thriving film industry

 

I don't "suppose" that we will.

 

> you seem to be on a one man crusade to finish off the entire British film and television industry.

 

I think you'll find a certain one-woman crusade did that during the 80s, but as you will.

 

> if it means no money and no glory

 

Glory I can do without. I'm not even particularly bothered about money, but there does have to be a certain practical minimum which this industry is not capable of providing to the overwhelming majority of its incumbents. Your optimism would be laudable if it weren't so likely to pauper people.

 

> to create something that people around the world (including the mighty US) will stand up and take notice

 

Heard it all before. Nobody cares, OK? There is no "take notice", there's business or no business, and the situation at the moment is firmly the latter.

 

Yes, it needs all the support it can get, but unfortunately I don't happen to have fifty million pounds lying around which is as far as I can see the only meaningful support film production needs. Be it tax subsidies, government grants, or shock horror actually making films that will make a profit (anathema to most around here, I know) it comes down to cold hard cash, both for the people who're currently on benefit and for the industry itself. Call me mercenary, but unfortunately we live in a capitalist society.

 

Phil

[siddharth diwan]

Oh very well ...America Vs Britain but are there any more film schools there because i have to come back to the Indian Film Industry where films much more in quantity are made and education from any film school would work if you can market and sell yourself...........sp plz are there ny more film schools...thanks coz thats how all of this started initially

[Guest dbledwn11]

Once again Phil you've missed the point. We aren't going to cultivate anything with people like you around so please do us all a favour and leave the industry. You complain about the state of British film so you tell people to take their talent elsewhere, which only compounds the problem, and so you complain even more because the situation got worse, yet again, and so and so on. Then you blame others for something you are indirectly responsible for, which makes you a hypocrite.

 

Beyond your argument (which is mere solipsism and rhetoric anyway) I sense something far more fundamental regarding you as a person. You are deeply negative, embittered, passionless and soulless. The more and more you argue the worse you make it for yourself and the more I pity you. So, I'm gonna do you a favour, and consider this discussion over (from my perspective at least - obviously if others have more to say I am in no way trying to shut you up).

 

Oh and Sid I'm really sorry to have lost focus from your original post - I will very shortly put up another post that only pays attention to your query. Something along the lines of a list of colleges, universities and 'pure' film schools that I am aware exist in the UK.

[Morgan Peline]

Hi ya all,

 

I've been a bit busy shooting my 'Studio Film Exercise', but thought I would wade in again as usual to counteract Phil's comments...again...and again...

 

Sorry but this is going another long rambling post.

 

Actually, as I am living near London I think all of us UK forum members should actually meet in the pub to discuss this face-to-face over a few drinks. We'd probably find out that we all know each others mates and end up working together on some project. I suppose the first point I want to make is that the saying 'It's not what you know, it's who you' know is absolutely true.

 

I actually have done the film school thing and I've also done the working in the industry thing. I had an 'early' mid-life crisis when I was in my late twenties. I had done a business degree then found myself in IT sales and marketing amongst other things - how I managed to actually stick those mind numbingly boring office jobs I can't fathom anymore! I started working on short films, then I went to the Northern Film School, then worked for 3-4 years as a camera trainee and clapper loader in television and the odd feature and then got in to the National Film School last year. This was my second attempt, the year before I came 7 out of 10 and was shortlisted but they only take 6 students a year.

 

First point. Even 'normal' well paying jobs are hard to find these days. Look at how many graduates end up selling things in telesales offices. A lot! I know! I was one of them. Even the qualifications

such as law, engineering, and medecine do not guarantee you work. So this notion of a more sustainable career is a fallacyespecially in our age of globalisation. Competition is everywhere - that's what life is about. I agree with Phil that if you have mouths to feed then starting out in film and television is not the best idea...I'm single...there are always pros and cons.

 

Second point. The state of the UK film industry is not great. I would completely agree that film and tv is very hard to find work in in this country as there is not that much production in the UK. I also have to admit that as I am French, and have family in Vancouver, France and Hong Kong - I will most likely move away because of a perceived lack of work.

 

However, when I first graduated from the Northern Film School years and years ago I did get into the industry - it is possible. It took me a whole year to get a weeks worth of work on a 16mm tv drama shot in Machester; 'Clocking Off' (which was produced by Red Productions which did 'Queer As Folk' which was sold to the US for a remake incidentally) - this led to another 2 months and then the operator took me on to an extra six months worth work on 'Where The Heart Is' by the end of which I was loading for 2nd unit - on 'Clocking Off' he even let me share his flat with him for 2 months in Manchester because I couldn't afford accomodation: I will always be grateful! - 'It's who you know not what you know' so therefore you do need to meet as many people as. 'Where The Heart Is' who still use the same crew phoned me up a few months ago to see if I was free to work. Obviously I didn't take the work but there is work just not everybody can have it. Just like with anything else - there is competition. Med school is difficult, so is Law school, so are MBA schools.

 

Obviously it was easier for me to get work 'up North', still took me a year, you however Phil gave up in a few weeks so therefore you still feel like you lack some kind of 16mm knowledge or something.

When I left my first film school I didn't understand set etiquette. I do now having worked on quite a few tv dramas. There is less and less work, it is tough, but some of us can get there. Others give up too soon. If you want something fight for it. Sure I could have my comfortable boring office job back but why? I'm having a ball! I just lit the biggest set ever - I made some terrible terrible mistakes but that was great! That's why I'm there! - I got to shoot 4 rolls of 16mm 200T, had a beautiful professionally built set to light (we built a full size garden and exterior of a 'cheap' 1980 pebble dash starter home in our studio and I got to run run 65k of lights i.e. four 12Ks, 3 spacelights, and loads of smaller lights. Where else could I get that opprtunity and also be allowed to make mistakes?

 

Third point. UK film school or not? You know Phil, you say you wish you could shoot on 16mm, well when I was at the Northern Film School, in those days all we ever shot on was 16mm - nearly all of my showreel made mostly from those films is 16mm. Maybe if you'd applied to some of the film schools I applied to, at some point you would have answered all your 16mm questions rather than looking pessimistically at the world all the time. Sure I did have to work hard at getting out of film school what I wanted, because there was hardly any teaching just loads of equipment. Here at the National Film School, apart a few things shot miniDV, DigiBeta or HD everything we shoot is on 16mm. I've personally exposed 9 rolls of film on my own projects, not counting the extra 3 rolls we shot on exposure and lighting workshops taught by Paul Wheeler. And the extra 1-3 rolls we will most likely use on our 'low-loader' and 'night lighting' workshops next week taught by Brian Tufano, my head of studies, who has just come back from 3 weeks shooting in LA on top of 5 weeks or so at Pinewood where he was shooting a romatic comedy starring Michelle Pfeiffer. Last week I got to sit in on a telecine session with Stuart Harris to transfer a commercials lighting techniques workshop that he taught the second years that they had shot on 35mm. I mean he only shoots videos for Pink Floyd! Oh..and I also get to share a few rolls of 35mm with my colleagues in a few weeks when Billy Williams is going teach us lighting for two weeks. Yeah 'old' techniques just don't work as well as they used to. 'Cos obviously if they can win you an Oscar for 'Ghandi' and a nomination for 'On Golden Pond' then obviously those techniques are useless in our new much more modern style of cinematography...Do you really believe that the principles of lighting have completely changed in the last 30 years? As afar as I can tell they have evolved but they are not completely different. Next week I get to sit with Alex Mills for half a day to discuss my progress at the school as he is the external assessor for cinematography. Oh and all that is on top of the other exercises that I have done with the animation and documetary departments.

 

...So yeah attending the National Film School is a real waste of time obviously! Come on, get a grip! It's not a perfect school by any means, there are some big issues but there are also some very good things as well.

 

This week at the cinema: 'A History of Violence' shot by a graduate; Peter Sushitsky, 'Pride and Prejudice' shot by another graduate; Roman Osin. Other graduates include: Roger Deakins and David Tattersall as we all know, Alwin Kuchler, Richard Greatrex, Andrzej Sekula...amongst many more actually working in Hollywood. This notion that English trained DPs are inferior to US DPs is ridiculous. DPs are DPS whereever they come from or wherever they trained. Some are masters some are not. Vision is vision - that's all.

 

What you seem to fail to understand over and over again is that it is easy to be shown how to light or operate in a particular style. It is much better, I would say however to be shown that every DP is completely different and that there are countless different methods and techniques to achieve your OWN style, as long as you have spent the time deciding for yourself what you like and what you don't like in terms of cinematography. It's not just because you study in the US that you will become a good DP. Light moves in the same way wherever you go. Just because you go to LA to study doesn't mean you will find work on features in LA. Chris Doyle didn't study in the US - he just taught himself how to light when he was in his early 30s. He now shoots all over the world as well as Hollywood. US film schools are not necessarily better.

 

I might not get regular paid work for a few years after I leave, but who cares? I'm sure as hell gonna make sure I know how to light for film by the time I leave and guess what? We've got a whole fridge full of 16mm and 35mm and a whole load of cameras and cheap dollies that we can use over the next year. By the time I leave I'm going to at least have a notion knowing how to create all those pretty pictures in my head to tell a story. My pictures for the stories that I love - not bad imitations - hopefully! ;-) of others people's works. That's what's important, what 's in your heart not where you study.

 

Obviously, in all honesty, there are many issues about the school as with all 'schools'. And actually, it is very true to say, that we don't shoot as much as we should! But I'm getting what I need from here. I just seem to keep learning that I have so much more to learn!

 

And as for US film schools. I got into the AFI last year. I went to LA to check it out and decide. Are they better or worse than NFTS? Difficult to say. I would admit that their graduation films seem to be better written than ours - better shot...no not necessarily. And also there seems to be much more production than us. The have many many four day shoots on DVCAM. So they have 28 camera students who have 3 '4 day' shoots to shoot 20min. films and single personal project on 16mm. Well I shot 3 projects on 16mm (as well as an extra 15 min. short film over the holidays where I had 12 rolls of film). Less days as they tend to be 1 - 3 day shoots to create 7 - 10 min. films but I've shot alot outside the school as well to counteract this imbalance as do all my colleagues. So yes I don't get to see as many films shot by other cinematographers as they do at AFI (which all AFIers whom I've talked to say is fantastic because you get to see so many different camera and lighting styles), but I actually get to shoot a load more for myself in the long run - and I have loads more time watch classic films.

 

I have 5 other classmates as compared to 27 for AFI.

 

What I don't get is LA resident features DPs talking to me regularly like they do at AFI, so that's a pity but you can't have everything in life...

 

I have to pay £4000 (US$6,999) a year tuition. Yet I have been given £4,100 (US$7,170) maintenance grant almost as matter of course as I am an EU member resident in the UK. For next year I have been nominated a Freddie Young Memorial Scholar so I get the £4,100 as well as an extra £2,000 (US$3,598) scholarship towards my school fees. So they are actually paying me money to study here - how cool is that?

 

NFTS (UK) - 2 years European Union school fees = US$13,997.64

 

(but they will have given me US $17,846.99 in grants

and scholarships and I've shot all my major exercises on

16mm on ARRI SR3s and Aaton XTR prods)

 

AFI (US) - 2 years school fees = US$ 61,000

 

(No chance for scholarships, no chance to stay in the US

after graduation and most 1st year projects shot on

DVCAM...you do the sums...)

 

Anyway, going to bed now, yeah what can I say Phil going to film school here in the UK is a real waste of time because they don't teach the true Hollywood ethic which is try and make as much money out of the punters as possible.

 

You never did take up that dare to apply to the NFTS to see if you could get lucky...;-)

 

So anyway Phil let me put this away. You go ahead and be practical and negative as usual. But I'm having a whale of a fun time making serious mistakes on 16mm. I'm poor and single and will most likely find it really hard to find work when I graduate but at least I got a showreel and a smile on my face!

 

The Americans on the forum will appreciate this! Phil, get a book called 'Walden' by Henry David Thoreau. It's all about 'Living to a different drummer', what he says is a bit hippy in places but oh boy has he got a point!

 

 

 

 

Here is a photo of my set when it was first being built.

 

Here is a photo of my set when it was first being built.

[Phil Rhodes]

And when you're two years out of the course you will realise just what the situation really is. And you won't like it.

 

It does strike me as notably ironic that it costs you much less to go to NFS as a foreign national than it would cost me as a local, though.

 

Phil

[Morgan Peline]

Did go a bit overboard with the previous post!

 

>It does strike me as notably ironic that it costs you much less to go to NFS as a foreign national than it would cost me as a local, though.

 

Hey, if you got in you would get exactly the same £4,100 maintenance grant and anyway, if a scholarship panel decides that I am worthy of receiving some extra money to help me achieve my dream of becoming a DP who am I to disagree! We are all friendly European Union brothers now, remember? You can go anywhere in Europe and work if you want. You can go study or work in France if you want. And anyway I've lived and worked in England for 15 years now and paid taxes...

 

>And when you're two years out of the course you will realise just what the situation really is

 

Yeah...bring it on! What's that song? 'I will survive!'. All of the previous year's graduates are getting some paid work now, usually shorts, music videos, corporates and commercials, obviously some work more regularly than others but paid work is paid work. One got approached by an agent after the graduation screenings who asked him if he wanted to go on their books. Like I keep saying it will definitely be difficult to find work but who cares?! I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing in life and having a ball! I'll find some eventually. You say you're in a rut shooting DV corporates well my showreel's gonna have 16mm, 35mm, digiBeta, HD, HDV, miniDV for drama, documentary, test commercials and animation as well as studio lighting and location lighting...Hopefully, my time spent learning this stuff will come to something. And if not, I'll teach because I'll have an MA accredited from the Royal College of Art. Maybe not the perfect solution but at least it pays the bills - I can always do that when I'm not shooting. Yeah, like you keep saying it's going to be very very hard getting regular work but hey don't tell me film school won't give me more opportunities and options. Whether it's in this county or another. Things happen to help you out sometimes especially when you really want something.

 

[Phil Rhodes]

> Things happen to help you out sometimes especially when you really want something.

 

Oh, boy, you really are the limit!

 

Tell you what, we'll get all the wannabe film students in the world to leave a can of film under their pillows and maybe the film fairy will come along and replace it with a career!

 

And hey, I'm impressed, you've spent enormous amounts of time and money building a set that looks exactly like every dreary backyard in the country. One error - you painted the sky blue...

 

Phil

[Stuart Brereton]

Tell you what, we'll get all the wannabe film students in the world to leave a can of film under their pillows and maybe the film fairy will come along and replace it with a career!

Phil

 

Give it a rest, Phil. Just because your career hasn't panned out the way you wanted doesn't mean the same will happen to others. It seems to me that the only thing holding you back is You. It's so much safer to say 'what's the point, i'm not good enough, the industry sucks' than it is to actually try it yourself.

 

You do yourself no favours, coming across as a hugely embittered person, who has nothing good to say about this industry. You carp on about how unfair it is, how unlikely it is, and yet all around you on this board there are people quietly getting on with carving careers out for themselves.

 

You say that you only continue in this business because you aren't qualified for anything else, but that doesn't explain why you choose to spend so much time on a forum full of people whose ambition and idealism you so obviously despise.

 

Maybe you should consider the possibilty that your (perceived) lack of success is directly attributable to your appalling attitude.

 

You're a knowledgeable person, and from the little I've seen of your work, a capable cameraman. Why not lighten up and enjoy the community you're part of, instead of spitting bile at it?

[Jonathan Spear]

The sky backdrop looks really cool. How is it lit in that shot? (It's almost glowing)

[Stephen Williams]

The sky backdrop looks really cool. How is it lit in that shot? (It's almost glowing)

 

Hi,

 

I think Phil thinks it should be overcast and raining in the U.K.

 

Stephen

[Guest fstop]

And hey, I'm impressed, you've spent enormous amounts of time and money building a set that looks exactly like every dreary backyard in the country.

Don't you learn from your own rules? Production costs are much lower in Bratislava and Prague where he'll be making all of the UK's films on graduation! ;)

[John Allardice]

Hi,

 

I think Phil thinks it should be overcast and raining in the U.K.

 

Stephen

 

 

In Phil's world it's ALWAYS overcast and raining

 

J

[Guest dbledwn11]

Here is what I promised for you Sid.

 

These are more like institutions that specifically deal with film/film-making issues in the UK:

 

http://www.bfi.org.uk/

http://www.skillset.org/

http://www.ukfilmcouncil.org.uk/

http://www.britfilms.com/

 

I would consider these ?pure? film schools all of which are based in London.

 

http://www.nftsfilm-tv.ac.uk/

http://www.lifs.org.uk/

http://www.londonfilmacademy.com/

http://www.metfilmschool.co.uk/

 

Universities and the like that offer some form of media production.

 

http://www.media.bournemouth.ac.uk/

http://www.lmu.ac.uk/as/ftpa/

http://www.brightonfilmschool.org.uk/

http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=4266

http://arts-humanities.cant.ac.uk/media/co...ion-studies.asp

 

 

I cannot vouch for these courses, I?m merely showing you what?s out there, but the main thing to consider is that the choice you make will be very specific and personal to you. If you?re really serious about this actually go and see these places in action and not just when they tell you is the best time (like ?open days?). That is possibly the worst time to see what their like because they function very differently on these days. Go and get a feeling for these places at some completely random time of the year.

 

anyway, hope this has been of some help. good luck and stick with it.

[Morgan Peline]

Hum...

 

Phil, you sure know how to stomp on people's dreams sometimes.

 

>Oh, boy, you really are the limit!

 

Maybe but let's see...

 

- I wanted to change careers and learn to shoot on film... so I got into to film school and I got to shoot exclusively on 16mm.

 

What have you shot on?

 

- I wanted to be a camera trainee because I wanted to work in a film crew...so I got to be a camera trainee and worked for eight months solid and 3-4 years on and off on 16mm cameras.

 

What did you do? Did you ever get to be a trainee? No, you gave up after 2 weeks.

 

- I wanted to get into the National and learn more about film and also studio lighting. On second attempt, I finally got in after my second attempt. I got in and we've been lighting different studio builds for the last 4 weeks shooting on 16mm. (I even got into AFI.)

 

What have you been doing over the last 4 weeks?

 

- I'm having a two week workshop soon where an oscar winning cameraman is going to be teaching me lighting on 35mm.

 

What are you going to be doing?

 

Like I say: 'Things happen to help you out sometimes especially when you really want something.'

 

I'll shoot on 35mm in a few weeks and take my chances later when it comes to entering the real world eventually and you stick to your miniDV corporates.