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Camera Auctions Scam Alert on Ebay


Mitsos Triantopoulos

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Interesting article about all the scams on eBay in the New York Times today.

 

Seeing Fakes, Angry Traders Confront eBay.

 

January 29, 2006

Seeing Fakes, Angry Traders Confront EBay

 

By KATIE HAFNER

SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 28 ? A year ago Jacqui Rogers, a retiree in southern Oregon who dabbles in vintage costume jewelry, went on eBay and bought 10 butterfly brooches made by Weiss, a well-known maker of high-quality costume jewelry in the 1950's and 1960's.

 

At first, Ms. Rogers thought she had snagged a great deal. But when the jewelry arrived from a seller in Rhode Island, her well-trained eye told her that all of the pieces were knockoffs.

 

Even though Ms. Rogers received a refund after she confronted the seller, eBay refused to remove hundreds of listings for identical "Weiss" pieces. It said it had no responsibility for the fakes because it was nothing more than a marketplace that links buyers and sellers.

 

That very stance ? the heart of eBay's business model ? is now being challenged by eBay users like Ms. Rogers who notify other unsuspecting buyers of fakes on the site. And it is being tested by a jewelry seller with far greater resources than Ms. Rogers: Tiffany & Company, which has sued eBay for facilitating the trade of counterfeit Tiffany items on the site.

 

If Tiffany wins its case, not only would other lawsuits follow, but eBay's very business model would be threatened because it would be nearly impossible for the company to police a site that now has 180 million members and 60 million items for sale at any one time.

 

Of course, fakes are sold everywhere, but the anonymity and reach of the Internet makes it perfect for selling knockoffs. And eBay, the biggest online marketplace, is the center of a new universe of counterfeit with virtually no policing.

 

EBay, based in San Jose, Calif., argues that it has no obligation to investigate counterfeiting claims unless the complaint comes from a "rights owner," a party holding a trademark or copyright. A mere buyer who believes an item is a fake has almost no recourse.

 

"We never take possession of the goods sold through eBay, and we don't have any expertise," said Hani Durzy, an eBay spokesman. "We're not clothing experts. We're not car experts, and we're not jewelry experts. We're experts at building a marketplace and bringing buyers and sellers together."

 

Company officials say they do everything they can to stop fraud. The company says only a minute share of the items being sold at any given time ? 6,000 or so ? are fraudulent. But that estimate reflects only cases that are determined by eBay to be confirmed cases of fraud, like when an item is never delivered.

 

Experienced eBay users say that the fraud goes well beyond eBay's official numbers, and that counterfeiters easily pass off fakes in hundreds of categories.

 

"EBay makes a lot of money from a lot of small unhappy transactions," said Ina Steiner, the editor and publisher of AuctionBytes.com, an online newsletter. "If you've lost a few thousand dollars, you might go the extra mile to recover it. But if you've lost $50 or $20 you may never be able to prove your case, and in the meantime eBay has gotten the listing fee and the closing fee on that transaction."

 

The Tiffany lawsuit, in addition to accusing eBay of facilitating counterfeiting, also contends that it "charges hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees" for counterfeit sales.

 

In 2004, Tiffany secretly purchased about 200 items from eBay in its investigation of how the company was dealing with the thousands of pieces of counterfeit Tiffany jewelry. The jeweler found that three out of four pieces were fakes.

 

The case will go to trial by the end of this year, said James B. Swire, an attorney with Arnold & Porter, a law firm representing Tiffany. The legal question ? whether eBay is a facilitator of fraud ? is a critical issue that could affect not only eBay's future but Internet commerce generally, said Thomas Hemnes, a lawyer in Boston who specializes in intellectual property.

 

"If eBay lost, or even if they settled and word got out that they settled, it would mean they would have to begin policing things sold over eBay, which would directly affect their business model," Mr. Hemnes said. "The cost implied is tremendous."

 

But eBay members like Ms. Rogers have little desire to wait for court decisions; they say that the uncontrolled flood of fakes is driving down the value of the authentic goods.

 

For the past few months, Ms. Rogers and three women she met on eBay who are also costume jewelry buffs have banded together to track the swindlers they say are operating in their jewelry sector. "People have faith that eBay will take care of them, but it doesn't," Ms. Rogers said. "EBay has done nothing."

 

Carrie Pollack, who sells jewelry from her home in Sudbury, Mass., and is part of Ms. Rogers's group, said an authentic Weiss brooch of good quality could command $150. But she said the profusion of counterfeits had confused the market and diluted the value of such a pin to as little as $30.

 

"It's a situation that's facing all of us in the jewelry world, and I suspect other decorative arts as well," said Joyce Jonas, an antique jewelry specialist in New York. "It's totally out of control."

 

Over the past few months Ms. Rogers and her team have reported to eBay more than a thousand jewelry listings they believe to be fakes; only a few listings have been removed.

 

The women say that by watching the listings they have uncovered a ring of a half-dozen or so counterfeiters, most of them living in Rhode Island within a few miles of one other. They say the sellers supply one another with fake jewelry, conceal the fact that they are buying from one another to boost their seller status, and regularly dole out positive feedback to each other to fool potential buyers.

 

Ms. Pollack was unaware of the abundance of counterfeit pieces on eBay when she paid $360 for what she thought were genuine pieces of Weiss jewelry. She demanded a refund from the seller, who refused.

 

Ms. Pollack said it wasn't until she filed a formal complaint with PayPal, eBay's online payment system, that the seller offered to refund her money. Since then, she has sent eBay officials a raft of evidence pointing out the presence of the counterfeits, including an independent appraisal from Gary L. Smith, a gemologist in Montoursville, Pa., who declared the five brooches Ms. Pollack sent him to be unmistakable fakes.

 

This reporter, too, sent a butterfly brooch with "Weiss" stamped on the back, purchased for $12.99 recently from one of the alleged counterfeiters, to Mr. Smith. He determined that there was nothing vintage about it ? certainly not the very new glue used to hold in the glass stones. (In a subsequent phone conversation, the seller, Garnet Justice, who lives in Leesburg, Ind., said she had "no idea" whether the pin was authentic, and offered a full refund.)

 

Antoinette Matlins, another gemologist, also purchased five vintage pieces from the sellers tracked by Ms. Rogers's group to determine their authenticity. She found them to be cheap knockoffs worth less than 10 percent of their sale prices.

 

But she was not surprised. Whether online or off, she said, "fraud is rampant in any venue where you are looking for a steal."

 

EBay's feedback system that allows buyers to post negative reviews of bad sellers is supposed to protect customers like Ms. Pollack. Yet all of the alleged counterfeiters had consistently positive ratings.

 

Ms. Steiner of AuctionBytes.com said this situation was not uncommon. Buyers and sellers are often reluctant to leave bad reviews, lest their own reputations suffer.

 

EBay does not allow members to contact other potential buyers to warn them of possible fraud. Otherwise, said Mr. Durzy, it would be too easy for someone to try to ruin the reputation of a legitimate rival.

 

Ms. Rogers said she had no qualms about breaking the rules by contacting buyers about fakes she spots. In November, she even put up a listing that advertised a fake Christmas tree brooch from Eisenberg Ice, a vintage costume jewelry maker, just to make people aware of the fraud.

 

"The reason I am doing this is because eBay won't," the listing read. "Let's stop this madness ? these fakes are pushing down the price of authentic jewelry."

 

"The frustrating part is that eBay just stands back and lets these people make thousands and thousands of dollars" while taking a fee for each transaction, Ms. Rogers said. (The company's profits rose 36 percent in the last quarter from the year before, to $279.2 million.)

 

After the spectacular case in 2000 when a fake Richard Diebenkorn painting was nearly sold for $135,000 on eBay, the company put in place a handful of safeguards, like the PayPal buyer protection plan, an improved system for spotting eBay policy violations, and improved detection of fraud in general. But when it comes to counterfeit goods, the problem has gotten worse.

 

Artwork is particularly vulnerable to counterfeiting. "The majority of things that appear on eBay are fakes," said Joel Garzoli, an art gallery owner in San Rafael, Calif.

 

Mr. Durzy argued that "if we began to automatically pull listings for things reported to us as fake, we could be pulling listings that are legitimate." He added that the company had to rely on trademark owners to "tell us something is counterfeit." Yet trademark owners like Tiffany say they have gotten no relief.

 

Ms. Rogers and her team say their efforts may be working. The number of bids on the fake vintage jewelry pieces has dropped sharply since they went into action, they say. Nonetheless, the seller who sold Ms. Pollack the knockoff is still in business and recently put up for sale a "beautiful Weiss brooch with lots of sparkle and shine." Starting bid: $9.99.

 

 

-Tim Carroll

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Here's another place that seems to be scamming or selling the bidder list to scammers. Got a fake email asking me to buy this camera on Second Chance Offer. It is one of those companies that sells your stuff for you on eBay. They are called Simply Sold. The camera sold for $1800 and I was a very early bidder on the camera, so I assume they are sending scam Second Chance Offers to everyone who bid. The fake emails are coming from this email address: psauisa@yahoo.com. Naturally it is someone with a yahoo account.

 

Arri 16S camera auction

 

-Tim

 

PS: It turns out that the whole Simply Sold company is a complete scam. I tried calling their 800 number and it is invalid, and all their other information is fake. So if you see anything listed as being sold on eBay from Simply Sold, it is a scam.

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PS: It turns out that the whole Simply Sold company is a complete scam. I tried calling their 800 number and it is invalid, and all their other information is fake. So if you see anything listed as being sold on eBay from Simply Sold, it is a scam.

 

I wonder if they have an 800 number that only works in canada? It is only fairly recently that those have defaulted to work across the border.

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I wonder if they have an 800 number that only works in canada? It is only fairly recently that those have defaulted to work across the border.

 

You can give it a try, but the message says the number is disconnected. It does not say the number is not available in your area, which is usually what it says when a number only works in certain countries.

 

-Tim

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  • 4 weeks later...
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I have not seen every one of the 20,000 Arriflex 16S cameras ever made, but has anyone else ever seen an Arri S where the magazine torque motor and its electrics were on the opposite side?

 

Here are two cameras for sale on eBay right now, and both seem to have the mags on backwards.

 

BackW1.jpg

 

BackW2.jpg

 

-Tim

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  • 3 months later...

Hi folks,

 

I am selling another ACL II:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260001867947

 

I did have it up two weeks ago (item:7628976848) with a reserve, which was not reached hence there was no sale...

 

But apart from the above two items (both sold under my ebay name) if you see these pics under anyone else's listing that would be a scam...

 

Hoping I don't have to go through this again...

 

Cheers,

 

Mitsos

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hey another thing to watch out for are hacked accounts. Some guy had an XTR for sale saying email at this address because the ask seller a question went to an unworkable email. Anyhow he wanted an amount and claimed htat it would be through ebay square trade. Well square trade is not an escrow service, and it has been used to scam people, so that's another way that they are trying to scam

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok,

 

here we go again...

 

In my post below, you can find the link to my original auction, which ended, and the buyer has already received his camera.

 

Look here for the scammer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=160006498339

 

However, the idiot left the pictures which are hosted on my website... So, as you can see I changed on of the pictures with a warning... :D

 

Mitsos

 

 

Hi folks,

 

I am selling another ACL II:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260001867947

 

I did have it up two weeks ago (item:7628976848) with a reserve, which was not reached hence there was no sale...

 

But apart from the above two items (both sold under my ebay name) if you see these pics under anyone else's listing that would be a scam...

 

Hoping I don't have to go through this again...

 

Cheers,

 

Mitsos

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Ok,

 

here we go again...

 

In my post below, you can find the link to my original auction, which ended, and the buyer has already received his camera.

 

Look here for the scammer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=160006498339

 

However, the idiot left the pictures which are hosted on my website... So, as you can see I changed on of the pictures with a warning... :D

 

Mitsos

 

 

That's hilarious, great job.

 

-Tim

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HI.

 

Possible, we must show information about equipment for sell or for buy on forum ?

Need open special topic " For sell " and " WTB " ?

 

Yes, the business reputation of e-buy to falling.

But. The many peoples wish to sell and to buy equipments and what need do ?

Possible, need use service of middleman ?

Theoretically. If the seller of equipment from one country, the buyer from other country.

The buyer not trust of seller, but, the buyer trust of middleman from country of seller.

The seller send equipment to middleman.

If the buyer need additional service, The middleman check, test of equipment, if need, shoot of photos from equipment and send conclusion for seller and buyer and send confirm to seller for send money.

 

If the buyer receive money from seller, the middleman send equipment to buyer.

If the buyer not send money, the equipmnet return to seller.

 

From other side, if you wish buy used jewelry you go to jeweller.

If you wish buy or sell immovable property, you go to mercantile agency.

Possible, we need buy-sell union too ?

The person of middleman can be elective.

 

But, this possible with equipment with high price.

Yes, of course, the middleman must have fee.

But, the additional guarantee can be more important from fee.

Yes, of course, the middleman must have high business reputation, high confidence, must have technical knowledge about equipments.

 

From my side, i can propose help iniside Ukraine, possible, Russia, Belarus.

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I guess this is payback for me ratting out so many scammers. Someone has scammed my auction from back in April.

 

DO NOT BID ON THIS ARRIFLEX 16SR CAMERA.

 

They stole the pictures and description from my auction and relisted it. I notified eBay, so hopefully it will be taken down soon.

 

TOTAL SCAM AUCTION

 

-Tim

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That "email me at this email address, because the 'Contact Buyer' mails do not get to me" should be a big red flag for any serious bidder...

 

Mitsos

 

I guess this is payback for me ratting out so many scammers. Someone has scammed my auction from back in April.

 

DO NOT BID ON THIS ARRIFLEX 16SR CAMERA.

 

They stole the pictures and description from my auction and relisted it. I notified eBay, so hopefully it will be taken down soon.

 

TOTAL SCAM AUCTION

 

-Tim

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That "email me at this email address, because the 'Contact Buyer' mails do not get to me" should be a big red flag for any serious bidder...

 

"I want to sell it for $ 1890 US" as well. It clearly reveals he has no clue as to how much this camera is worth.

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The weirdest thing is that they are using an active seller ID.

I just contacted the person behind the seller ID, but I used one of the other items they have for sale, and they had no clue about the camera being sold under their account!!!!

 

"I want to sell it for $ 1890 US" as well. It clearly reveals he has no clue as to how much this camera is worth.
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The weirdest thing is that they are using an active seller ID.

I just contacted the person behind the seller ID, but I used one of the other items they have for sale, and they had no clue about the camera being sold under their account!!!!

 

I think what they do is ... they create a fake website that looks like Ebay's and put it up at some address like 'ebay.whatever.com', for example. Then they send you an email saying something like: "Please update your account info here".

 

So you think you're logging into your actual control panel but instead you're submitting your username and password straight to the scammer who later can run ads like this one unnoticed.

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