Red

[Emanuel A Guedes]

And about this Ultra High Resolution c-mount offer?

www.fujinoncctv.com/lenses/index5.shtml

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

Productive, accurate and informative. Not a hint of disrespect. I love this post. Now I am all ears.

 

JimPeace for once! When I read...same feeling... Also because you, Jim J., deserve it. All of your posts are as accurate as possible to a high techie developer. And now you too Jim M. as poster here.

 

Your speech rocks.

Earth to Emanuel.

 

Your pills are on their way up.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Earth to Emanuel.

 

Your pills are on their way up.

:lol:

 

The first part is not mine but it's OK!

 

About that rocking speech...

 

...I know that you already gave me your point about the subject that I appreciated.

 

But my point is:

 

There isn't ONE cinema, so what it's good to you it can be bad to me (as the opposite it's equal true).

 

Sometimes, 'cause the industry POV it seems that there will be JUST one direction to go...and this is not true!

 

Do you know what I LOVE in Jim J.? His free spirit! He gives us what we are looking for or at least he is trying it with the tools and skills that he has by now as technology provider. And don't ask us what we will go to do with that. I know that it came from this business activity but that's the way as he is. And as his customer, I appreciate this attitude. It's not his business. 2k, 4k, there is the grammar between us in order to understand each other.

 

BTW, I've been following your posts for some time and I have the same idea about your inputs, so yet BTW, answer me when you are saying with the 35mm still lenses breath -- what does it mean? My filmmaking background can be not the cinematography field but I can assure that I will know to handle/shoot with the future RED ONE camera. And above all what to shoot besides how.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

when you are saying with the 35mm still lenses breath -- what does it mean?

When you change focus, the lenses zoom in or out.

 

Elles pompent.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Thank you for the answer Max.

 

BTW, I've been following your filmography@imdb with the link that you left in your signature.

 

Congrats! Awarded at Venice and nominated for the Felix. Good one! And KUDOS for the future!

 

My PL problem: weight and price. I'd like to have a zoom one and doing run & gun work. 5 kilos would be my maximum as shooter to my shoulders...:P

 

Lightweight lenses -- do you know?

 

I saw the 15.5-45 Arri-Zeiss LW-Z1 but I don't catch the price maybe because it's a recent product.

 

Otherwise, I have a lot of SLR lenses that I'd like to test because all my work is for the big screen after blown-up@35mm by now before the implementation of the JPEG2000 digital projection. OK my work isn't mainstream but I like clean stuff!

 

"Elles pompent"? Je connais le verbe comme le français aussi mais je ne sais pas si je prends...the idiomatic meaning.

 

Other problems than breath? Maybe if it will not change the focus during the shot...what's the bet?

 

And about the image quality itself? I don't have idea what is the resolution limits for a 35mm still lens according the 35mm photography frame not the Super35 RED sensor but working with it.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

My PL problem: weight and price. I'd like to have a zoom one and doing run & gun work. 5 kilos would be my maximum as shooter to my shoulders...

Why don't you just rent PL mount lenses? You get better quality and it costs less.

 

That way you have acces to the new lightweight zoom lenses on the market: the Zeiss 15.5-45mm, the Angénieux 15-40mm and the Cooke 15-40mm.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

And what about that?

 

I saw the 15.5-45 Arri-Zeiss LWZ-1 but I don't catch the price maybe because it's a recent product. 2 kilos...

 

And the 17-35 Century/Canon & 28-70 Century/Minolta (modified SLR lenses -- so the same SLR problems but at $15,000/$13,500?!!...):

http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/film...enses/index.htm

 

Yet this PL 2x range extender in order to have a reasonable telephoto even from a wideangle (I didn't test it but does it work? -- any disadvantages?):

http://www.filmcamerakit.com/html/adaptors.htm#pl

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

The reason the Century zooms are so expensive is because they take several stills zooms apart and select the best elements, then they completely rehouse them and do new, very acurate focus-scale. Basically they adapt the lens for motion picture use.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Why don't you just rent PL mount lenses? You get better quality and it costs less.

To Rent it isn't allowed by my religion... :)

 

That way you have acces to the new lightweight zoom lenses on the market: the Zeiss 15.5-45mm, the Angénieux 15-40mm and the Cooke 15-40mm.

The Zeiss I'm thinking that you are talking about the same Arri-Zeiss of my prior post...

 

Regarding the others...do you have any sell prices?

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

I must say that for 35mm work that ends up on the big screen, I would stick with PL mount lenses. If budget were an issue, I'd rent older lenses (Zeiss Superspeeds or Standards), but nothing older than those.

 

The cheapest of the three zooms that I mentioned is the Angénieux. I don't know the exact price, but I'd still expect to pay over ?20.000 for it.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

I must say that for 35mm work that ends up on the big screen, I would stick with PL mount lenses. If budget were an issue, I'd rent older lenses (Zeiss Superspeeds or Standards), but nothing older than those.

 

The cheapest of the three zooms that I mentioned is the Angénieux. I don't know the exact price, but I'd still expect to pay over ?20.000 for it.

Do you see? Weight and price...

 

It's a lot to a purchase and I don't know to work in any way other than writer-director-producer.

 

Before RED I thought to work between HVX - CineAlta (silver label), so my only budget it is lower than that. Also 'cause I want my money to other fields of my projects and as I said it's not mainstream, just big screen.

 

As I have a lot of still photography SLR lenses -- specially Nikkor and Canon, I'm also thinking to buy one or two PL PRIME wideangles and mix with them to shallow DOF. Also if I'm not wrong, Century has some SLR adapters to PL -- of course, if RED will not provide the Nikon F mount or even Canon's... -- commitment that I'm looking for from the RED team but until now I didn't, yet.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 11, 2006 by Emanuel

[Tim Tyler]

To Rent it isn't allowed by my religion...

 

Emanuel,

 

I'm curious. What motion picture equipment do you currently own?

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Now? Zero. As you can read from my previous presentation asked for the senior KODAK rep, I've been working in other fields of the filmmaking business: producing, distribution and exploitation, film education and so on.

 

As movie maker? @film school where recently I finished my directing area of college studies and training.

 

BTW, for your information, I and my partners, we will also buy other camera accessories like remote control devices, stabilizer system, crane/jib, etc. Well, to rental market but as rental business with services to others like for instance post-production facilities [uncompressed 1080p if not we will go with David Newman's Cineform or with a potential RED codec solution that will push us to 2k during 2007 and 4k in the future -- who knows if this will be a good deal?...] and the best editors and colorists that the money can afford. Anyone interested?

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Emanuel A Guedes]

PS

 

I mean: a medium budget. That's all!

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Emanuel A Guedes]

The reason the Century zooms are so expensive is because they take several stills zooms apart and select the best elements, then they completely rehouse them and do new, very acurate focus-scale. Basically they adapt the lens for motion picture use.

Or maybe, the greed of the film industry just changes its $1,500 sell price adding another 0 --> $15,000 'cause there will be a movie-money-making behind, instead a(n amateur :lol:) photo owner with this particular $140 Follow Focus gear ring added? LINK Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Jim Jannard]

Emanual... I am on your side. But in this particular case I have a different viewpoint. There is considerable work that Century did on their conversions besides adding a ring. All the internals are completely rebuilt, as is the shell. The focusing mechanism is converted and re-scaled for a longer throw (compared to SLR). And every piece is machined instead of molded. Another problem they faced is that they converted so few that there was no economy of scale to amortize the very expensive design work necessary for this extensive type of conversion. It is true that some can just add a ring to an SLR lens, but it is not the same as a full conversion.

 

My best. Jim

Edited May 12, 2006 by jannard

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Jim,

 

Thanks for the answer! I know that you are with your customers. Is there any other manufacturer out there with the same concern? Besides, posting directly among them? That's why I put my money in your bet 'cause now it's my bet too!

 

As you probably could see, I'm thinking to go in the cheapest SLR route.

 

If you are following the post #100 LINK of this same thread, you can see all my concern with that! Also 'cause I don't have any official confirmation from you that there will be Nikon F or Canon mounts to my collection of still photography lenses.

 

And if so, as accessory? And at what price?

 

Because of that:

Another problem they faced is that they converted so few that there was no economy of scale to amortize the very expensive design work necessary for this extensive type of conversion.

I'm thinking the same than when I take a bet in RED. You are democratizing the real digital moviemaking, putting it at the same level than 35mm. And that's why there are a lot of people from the film side that are thinking what their fears engage. Fortunately, they aren't all. 'cause we need of this economy of scale to amortize your and our effort.

 

(...) There is considerable work that Century did on their conversions besides adding a ring. All the internals are completely rebuilt, as is the shell. (...) And every piece is machined instead of molded. (...) It is true that some can just add a ring to an SLR lens, but it is not the same as a full conversion.

For sure, these differences will it be visible after a blown-up to 35mm? Do you think that there will be better image comparing SLR lenses? Theoretically speaking or there@big_screen? And if yes, with so much difference?

 

Other SLR problems than breath? The focusing mechanism is converted and re-scaled for a longer throw (compared to SLR).

Any implications about that comparing with the simple SLR lenses? RED ONE will have an innovative focus assist. Will it be useful to this SLR lenses use?

 

And about the image quality itself? I don't have idea what are the resolution limits for a 35mm still lens according the 35mm photography frame not the Super35 RED sensor but working with it.

 

'cause I know that it is the Super16 option but I prefer deal with the 4520 x 2540 full sensor than a half of that...as Stuart English explained, scaled 2k will be better than windowed 2k, specially if we haven't any speed need.

 

And about this Ultra High Resolution c-mount offer?

www.fujinoncctv.com/lenses/index5.shtml

 

RED will there have also a c-mount?

 

Otherwise, there is the question of the weight to run & gun work with a PL mount zoom lens (besides price).

 

All the LUCK,

Emanuel :)

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Oh, my! Productive, accurate and informative. Not a hint of disrespect. I love this post. Now I am all ears.

 

Jim

There are plenty of useful suggestions I could make, and what amazes me is that nobody here has thought of them, which says a lot about your potential clientele!

 

Lessee....

Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has been dragged out of bed in the middle of the night on far too many occasions due the the stupidity of various film crews...

 

* DC power input voltage range 9V - 37V, in other words able to work with anything from a car battery to a sun-gun battery. It can be done; most of the video taps I've built had that input range , and most TV sets these days will work with anything from 80V AC to 270V AC.

Input voltage relay-switched with under, over and reverse voltage protection.

And über-important: All regulated output voltages COMPLETELY ISOLATED FROM THE INPUT! Gawd, the stories I could tell you.....

 

*ALL "Outside World" connections (ie EVERY pin on EVERY socket) fitted with static protection diodes. (Every connection...)

 

*Standard 15-pin VGA connector with all common computer display standards supported, so users can plug in any sort of monitor they have to hand. (From an old 14" CRT monitor to a 40" Sony Bravia). No fiddly "proprietary" connectors please, we want something you can get on a Sunday Afternoon in Lower Hicksville, Arizona.

 

* "Zoom" function on the VGA output for easier focus.

*Component 1080 from standard RCA connectors, like what most affordable HDTV monitors and DVD/Hard Disc recorders have.

* HD Firewire output for DVD and Blu-Ray recorders

* NTSC and PAL composite, component and S-Video from RCA and standard S-Connectors. (You don't always need HD quality for monitoring)

*All RCA/BNC connectors to be standard off-the-shelf nut-locking types that can be easlity replaced by a local TV repair shop or similar.

* Power on/power off via a simple 2-wire connector a la an Arri 35-3. "Off" will power down to low-curent standby, "ON" will power up to the previous state (eg 27fps, running and recording) No dumbass Green on/off buttons.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

There are plenty of useful suggestions I could make, and what amazes me is that nobody here has thought of them, which says a lot about your potential clientele!

Is it difficult to you to be such unpleasant even when you are productive?... (the word isn't mine)

 

The most strange in all of this it's that I like you despite all of your insults with or without sense of humor that sometimes it's yours!

 

Did you see John Hurt in Shooting Dogs? Pay attention at the last Christopher's character (the old one 'cause the youngest doesn't speak -- he couldn't!) dialogue...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Is it difficult to you to be a gentleman?

Difficult? No.

Necessary? No.

Why would I want to be a gentleman? I'll save that for the people who might be of some benefit to me.

This ain't no cafeteria-where-you-pay-on-the-way-out!

What do I care; I'm not going to be buying one of these dumbass things!

You don't know what it's like - I'm the one out there every day putting his ass on the line. And I'm not out of order! You're out of order! The whole freaking system is out of order! You want the truth? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! 'Cause when you reach over and put your hand into a pile of goo - that used to be your best friend's face, you'll know what to do!! Forget it Marge, it's Chinatown!!!

[Hal Smith]

Be able to access setup menus, maintenance information, take history, etc. with a computer running a standard HTML browser. The camera would have a unique IP address that the browser would connect to. The "smart" part of the interface would exist within the camera (no custom software would be necessary on the host computer, just IE, etc.). With this approach a support center could look at the camera from half way around the world, an AC on the set could check settings with a laptop, etc.

 

This approach to interfacing has become the de facto standard in a lot of high technology gear. In the past the physical connection was RS232, increasingly USB 2.0 is being used for such communication links. With TCP/IP implemented with Wifi gear on the camera, an AC on the ground could communicate with a camera 100' in the air on a crane!

[Guest Jim Murdoch]

Be able to access setup menus, maintenance information, take history, etc. with a computer running a standard HTML browser.

 

You could have a new subset of HTML where clicking a link would activate a camera function, so you could make a custom control screen without too much programming knowledge.

That way you could have different icons to give you various preset frame rates, shutter times and so on. If it could interface with a lens controller, you could probably eliminate half your crew!

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Do you see? You made my day. Although strange, a lot of your ideas are mine too. Regarding the power of the money, I'm afraid that we have the same idea about that.

 

That's why I'm with this Jim too. Do we know a humble successful man like him? Probably not. I can assure you that if I was the owner of Oakley, I will not be posting here but another person than me.

 

And isn't it what it's happens with all the companies out there? When I'm thinking about similar guys@Forbes with a similar fortune posting here or in a forum about art, photography or even movies, for instance, it's merely a joke. It would be the case for an article or an interview in a newspaper...why? Because it's case of news. I will not say of TV but of written press, for sure. Do we know the Mr. Matsushita? Or Mr. Sony? And I'm asking if they know anything about electronics. Probably just money and how to spend it. And about Jim J.? Can you say the same? He has been posting here, answering all the disrespectful posts that have been published here against his work. And even those posters cannot avoid this meaning.

 

And if I liked to know Mr. David Mullen himself...

 

...I'm remembering to have seen last 25th June for the third time maybe, Twin Falls Idaho LINK and to have arrived@home and@imdb it was possible to read that him had his birth date precisely in that sunday 26th. One hour before I was reading one useful post that he had posted with a lot of helpful information to my life and my needs. That day, I was thinking to send a message from here saluting his work and his nativity. Now, I had the chance to exchange ideas and talk with him...

 

...with Jim Jannard it happens the same. It's a honour to all of us to have this access to him 'cause his humbleness. He is with us@our side! His money is not a illness. And if he is interested to invest his time and skills (isn't it true that all the men of good will they are owners of that gift?) with the indie movement (no I'm not his employee but as another cinematography.com member said in another forum concerning this particular suspicion -- «don't we wish?»), it's our luck for us and to our work his presence between us. That's all!

 

I'm sorry my sincerity that I wouldn't like to be misunderstood as it was at the beginning. As I said, before posting here, I was already posting in other forums. My posts there, they are published and in two minutes it's possible to find who I am. At least from this point of view.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel

[Max Jacoby]

To Rent it isn't allowed by my religion... :)

I only rent.

 

You get the best equipment for the smallest amount of money. The equipment will be well looked after and if you have a problem or something breaks don, it'll get replaced.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

But I haven't nothing against. As I said, I'm trying to have some gear to a rental house, well, small one indeed! But with skilled people working with passion and finding the best results as far as any medium budget can afford.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Emanuel