The reason why 4K cameras will never be small.

[Deanan DaSilva]

Just look at the Dalsa Origin, which shoots uncompressed 4K Bayer-filtered images -- the mini-fridge-sized recorders that I saw at NAB about three years ago held about 20 minutes of footage, then the next time, they said it held an hour, and now I think it's something like 3 hours of recording time possible per unit.

 

Hi David,

 

We now also have a recorder that holds about two hours of 4k RAW @24fps that is about 1/3rd

the size. A bit later this year we'll have an optimized version that's half the size and about 1.4 hours

 

Cheers,

 

Deanan

Dalsa

[Ted Johanson]

You've never heard of an XDCam? I assure you, the cameramen I know who use it are quite professional.

 

I have to agree with Karl. Some professionals may be using XDCam now, but that doesn't make XDCam a truly professional format. All that shows is that Sony will release a thousand different video formats every year AND that some professionals have a nasty habit of remaining loyal to Sony by buying their products until the day they die. Using optical discs for professional use is driven by nothing more than things like peer pressure, the "cool factor", or even simple ignorance.

 

The future of professional video recording - as I see it - is using a solid-state device such as a memory card. Panasonic has got the right idea! Solid-state recorders are much more reliable under adverse conditions such as roller coaster rides. There is never any worry about dust (or other surface defect) on the disc or lens causing an error in recording. The bandwidth capability is far greater. They consume less power. There is no such thing as "spin-up time". There is no motor whirring sound to be picked-up by a camera mounted mic. Etc., Etc., Etc.

 

It's kind of like all of those people who buy those DVD camcorders. They don't care about the fact that MiniDV provides better image quality, longer recording time, less expense, and more reliable recording! Instead all they can think is "My peers sure would hold me in high esteem if I had a camcorder that recorded to DVD! Imagine how cool I'd look having the latest technology!".

 

Yep, XDCam is very likely to be another one of Sony's (typically very) temporary videos formats.

 

I could list all of Sony's failed formats...but I'd probably exceed the post length limit. :D

 

 

-Ted Johanson

[Ilmari Reitmaa]

1. Is the value of storage-per-volume constant?

 

2. And in fact, is the ever increasing resolution we will be needing from tomorrows capture devices ever going to be offset by the development of smaller storage devices? I.e. will the uncompressed cameras of tomorrow ever be smaller than a film camera today with the same capabilities?

From the engineering point of view, the answers are simple no and yes, provided that such cameras exist. Storage will become more and more compact, data transfer rates will become higher. It is only a matter of timescale and engineering effort. There do exist physical limits to this progress but these limits will likely not be encountered before digital storage systems are capable of delivering more information than the human visual sensory system is able to process (provided that sufficient projectors exist). Might take a while, though. For some numbers, see e.g. Kryder's Law (for hard drives) and, yes, Moore's Law (for solid-state memory).

 

Ten years ago my PC had a 4GB hard drive and 48MBs of memory. Ten years from now...

[Guest Paul Wizikowski]

At NAB this year there was a vendor showing off the specs for a new 4K camera. Its called the "Red One". Granted they don't have a working model and only time will tell if they will live up to their own expectations but, man, does it promise the moon. Here is a snippet from their website:

 

"Typical high-end HD camcorders have 2.1M pixel sensors and record with 3:1:1 color subsampled video at up to 30fps. We deliver 11.4M pixels at up to 60fps and record RAW, or 2x over-sampled HD in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2. your choice. That's more than 5 times the amount of information available every second and a vastly superior recording quality. Don't need all that data for your workflow? Dial it back, and keep all the other advantages of the Mysterium. Super 35mm cine sized (24.4 x 13.7mm) sensor. You get the same breathtaking Depth of Field and selective focus as found in film cameras. Mysterium. boasts a greater than 66db Signal to Noise Ratio thanks to its large 29 sq. micron pixels. And 11,480,800 pixels deliver resolution that can only be called Ultra High Definition.

 

RED ONE is a modular design that easily accepts upgrades in hardware, software, storage, handling and monitoring accessories.

 

Shoot lightweight ENG style (body less than 7 lbs., in rugged magnesium alloy) or load it up to shoot a feature film. Initial options will include RED-CAGE for mounting accessories and "growing" the camera body. Configure for studio pedestal, crane or long lens applications. RED-GUN lets you shoot from the hip, or shoulder like a rifle. Onboard or external high-resolution RED monitors come equipped with advanced tools for framing, exposure and focus. The RED ONE camera has numerous stainless steel mounting points on the body to allow hundreds of optional RED and third party accessories... some that haven.t even been dreamed of yet."

 

You can check it out for yourself at www.red.com.

 

Thoughts, after reading the website?

[Ilmari Reitmaa]

Granted they don't have a working model and only time will tell if they will live up to their own expectations but, man, does it promise the moon.

Well, you've pretty much summed up my thoughts with that. They don't have a working model. They promise the moon. With as little substance as this, there's nothing much to say one way or the other.

 

After reading the website a while back, it did come across as hyped. Who knows.

[Mike Rizos]

The Red has been dicussed a lot already. It has a subforum. But the Murdock VH38000 camera has even better specs.