16mm Camera (First Purchase)

TROTSKY · October 23, 2004

Hi,

This is my first post on this website. I'm a photographer and I've been doing so for the last 10 years. I always had an itch for filming and I'm ready to start learning about this medium. I'm looking to buy a 16mm Camera and would like some suggestions about brands and model.

I feel there is a very strong relation between still photography and filming, I got good knowledge in composition, lighting, lenses & film. I always work with mecanical cameras (Leica, Hasselblad & Linhof) and never with digital. I'm looking for something used, reliable, with a proven design (I'm thinking about Bolex H16, that seems to fit with what I'm looking for but what about other brands, models?), and a good (and easy) resale value in case I change my mind (and realise that I prefer to stick with still). As far as I know, I would like to have the option of doing slow motion & single frame. I always used normal and wide-angle lenses and I believe I would do the same with film.

What would you recommend that I look into (brands & models), is there other things that I should pay attention when comparing models (I've mention slow speed & single frame but there might be other features that I should be aware of when choosing a camera body)?

Thank you in advance for your reply!

October 23, 2004

Hi,

What would you recommend that I look into (brands & models), is there other things that I should pay attention when comparing models (I've mention slow speed & single frame but there might be other features that I should be aware of when choosing a camera body)?

since you've thought about Bolex H16, you might also want to consider Beaulieu R16, Canon Scoopic 16M/MS and cheaper Arris (like S and ST).

Are you going to shoot only 100' rolls, or do you maybe want to use larger, external magazines like 200' or even 400'? Unless you're going for a really advanced camera like Arri, you might not get ability to use magazines.

How about lenses, do you want to be able to change them? Canon Scoopic for once doesn't take other opticals than the one it comes with.

Maybe you want later convert your camera to Super 16? As far as I know, Bolex H16 is a great choice if you want to go Super 16 afterwards, other cameras might be more difficult to convert.

Dave Plake · October 24, 2004

Do not buy a beaulieu it is a terrible camera. Here's a few reasons why...

battery dies fast even newer ones

the electronics inside the camera suck the motor is weak the speeds are

not accurate the viewfinder prism often seperates and will get foggy and

people think oh you need to clean it but it is actually a 600 daollar

prism that needs to be replaced.. The speeds change whenever they feel like it...

I would never take this camera for a job. If you insist on buying one go to

> > >www.beaulieucinema.com <http://www.beaulieucinema.com> his name is

>guy...

> >

> > >he is my friend very cool and has the cleanest best beaulieu you can get

>

but i'll bet you he tells you it is a shiitty camera. Be wary of a

camera for 400 dollars as you will get what you pay for. In your price range

>for starting out I recommend an arriflex 16s or a bolex rex 5 or a bolex sbm. depending on whether you want to deal with a battery. Another advantage to a bolex is for 450 dollars

> >you

> > >can get a crystal sync motor that turns your bolex into a high end sync

> > >speed camera. You can shoot music videos.. sync sound interviews... etc.

>

> > >It has speeds form 12 to 60 all hmi safe and crystal sync. An affordable

>

> > >way to have a camera almost as goot as the 20,000 arri sr II. Oh yeah...

you can do timelapses with a bolex as well which you can't do with most

cameras including an arri s.

I have a Bolex rx5 for sale. Excellent condition for 1,400. A ton of lenses as well. If you have a lot of money get an arri srII. Or if you even righer get an srIII, or an aaton a-minima. I really do recommend a bolex not just because I am selling one. It is an excellent choice.

D

Matt Wells · October 24, 2004

Do not buy a beaulieu it is a terrible camera. Here's a few reasons why...

battery dies fast even newer ones

the electronics inside the camera suck the motor is weak the speeds are

not accurate the viewfinder prism often seperates and will get foggy and

people think oh you need to clean it but it is actually a 600 daollar

prism that needs to be replaced.. The speeds change whenever they feel like it...

I would never take this camera for a job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is rather unfair. It is not a "terrible camera" and the electronics do not "suck".

You obviously have had a bad experience with these cameras, but the faults you list generally occour with beat up student part exchanges, or cameras that have been fiddled with by inexperienced technicians.

- All nicad batteries have a lifespan and gradually deterioate towards the end of it and cease to hold charge, regardless what they are powering. Getting the battery re-celled with modern cells is straight forward anyway.

- I have newver found the motor to be 'weak'

- considering it does not have a crystal motor I have found the speeds to be very constant, and the cameras own tachometer display works in setting the speed.

The faults that you cite all sound power related and could occour if the battery was towards the end of its life, except for the prism, but stock of these are held by Bjorn Andersson of Beaulieu Sweden.

I'm not saying that the Beaulieu is better then the other cameras listed in this thread - I'm just saying that it is not a bad camera.

Matt

Fulgencio Martinez · October 24, 2004

krasnogorsk K3 is a good way to get into 16mm shooting.

You can get it very cheap. if you are used to mechanical cameras you´ll like to feeling of it.

you can get a new one for about 180 dollars with a zoom and five filters

dangertree · October 25, 2004

Nothing wrong with a Bolex. Also consider a Canon Scoopic. Get the MS. I had two of them and they took nice pictures and always worked.

I have a Krasnogorsk K-3 buried somewhere in the closet. Shot with it once out of the back of a open hatchback/windows of a VW on the freeway (110KM/hr) on 50D. Was expecting a gritty look. It came out looking like a Ford commercial. I've heard the lens being talked about as not so sharp, but for the $130 I paid for the Krassie, I was gob-smacked at the footage. Doesn't work so well at speeds ~30fps though, registration starts going wildly off. Then again, I have never had it serviced, ever, ever. So, I don't know if this is normal. Came across a Praktica 50mm lens from the family, more good footage. Aaand, a better/brighter/larger reflex viewfinder than any Bolex R16 I have ever looked through. There are better cameras out there for sure, but for ~$200, they're a hoot to use.

Lots of choices for little money, depends how much you want to spend I guess.

If you want to spend some money, get a Bolex EBM or EL, lots of room to grow in many ways.

Cheers,

DTF

andrewbuchanan · October 25, 2004

Yeah, I got to join those who suggest a K3... especially against a Bolex. I love the Bolex, but You can get a K3 for about 1/5th of the price and it really is everything the Bolex is. If I were going to spend all the money to get a decent Bolex... I'd get a Eclair ACL. Then you can have a tough-as-hell blimped camera with loads of options for customization and parts. Over the years I have had an Bolex Rex 5, H16, Arri S and an SR... The only 16's I own now are an NPR and a K3. They do everything I need.

Matt Pacini · October 26, 2004

I have both a Canon Scoopic M, and a CP-16R/A

I like both cameras a lot.

I would never get a K-3. I can't imagine dealing with a windup camera!

For just a bit more, get a Scoopic. (Don't get the original model though, get an "M" or "MS".

You'll be into a couple grand + for a decent CP-16 & some nice glass, but it's well worth it to have a quiet, crystal sync camera that shoots 400 foot loads.

Matt Pacini

Joe Carney · October 27, 2004

I've been tempted by the K3, since I don't have a problem recording audio on another device. I was wondering how it worked in natural light using V2 at 24 or 25fps?

Also, can they be modified for s16 and still zoom?