Steadicam Safety

Bill Totolo · March 5, 2004

I'm aware of the link to the steadicam forum, but since I've never posted there I figured I'd see what info I can get here first.

I have a scene where one person is chasing another on an ATV also known as a Quad. The script calls for speeds up to 80mph. If I want to chase or track alongside of these quads with a steadicam operator seated in another what is the safest way to appraoch this?

Would I put him in a pickup truck for some scenes, a van with a side door for others and an actual ATV for others? What is the safest maximum speed that I could ask for with an operator on the back of an ATV, 20mph? Faster, slower?

This would be over a flat gravel or dirt road, btw.

Mitch Gross · March 5, 2004

That seems awfully fast for an ATV -- just ask Ozzy! Better check over at the Steadicam Forum, as they've discussed using ATVs a number of times there and would be happy to answer or direct you to someone who would know. Be sure to note that you're not a Steadicam Op yourself.

Brad Grimmett · March 5, 2004

You should definately post this question on the steadicam forum. You'll get some really good feedback from many different operators. But since we're here now I'll post what I think. First of all, I would never operate steadicam off of a vehicle going 80 mph. One reason is safety. This is an unsafe speed for steadicam. Another reason is that you won't get good shots with steadicam at that speed. At that speed the wind resistance alone will reak havoc on the rig and it will be very near impossible to hold a steady shot. Also, at that speed the smallest adjustment by the driver will be magnified enormously to the camera and of course to the operator, which is why it's unsafe. It seems to me that the best way to do this would be from a high speed insert car. The fastest I've seen this done while still being able to operate the camera is between 60 and 70 mph. One particular situation was on a racetrack with a crane and remote head off the back of a shot maker shooting Jeff Gordon's racecar for a Pepsi commercial. Another was on a closed down freeway with a crane and a Stab-C head shooting the Cadillac Le Mans car for a Cadillac commercial. Bob Richardson was the DP/Director on this spot incidentally. I did work on a Gatorade commercial where we did shots that were over 100 mph. I happened to be in the car for that stuff, but I was simply rolling and cutting the camera a pre-determined points, and I should NEVER have been in the car as I was not secured at all and I could have, and almost did die. The camera was hard mounted to the car with speed rail that was attached to the chassis. The only reason I was in the car is that the driver was having trouble hanging on to the remote switch while still trying to keep the car on the track and he asked if there was another way to do it. I volunteered because it looked like a hell of a lot of fun, and it was a professional driver. It was dumb, but I lived, and I've learned my lesson. Although it was pretty cool.

I guess I've strayed a bit from your original question, but the point is, at those speeds a lot of things can happen, and when they do they happen very fast. Having a steadicam add to the list of things that can go wrong is a bad idea. As Garrett Brown (inventor of steadicam) says, you should never operate steadicam in a situation where you could get hurt without even doing steadicam. This sounds like one of those situations to me. Of course, a lot of operators have done a lot of things, and there's probably a pretty decent chance that someone has done something very close to this in the past. Whether they would be willing to do it again is another story. I sure wouldn't get back in a racecar going 120 mph without even having a seat! You may be able to pull the shot off if you are willing to risk it, but what if something does go wrong? You might be going to a funeral. Anyway, those are just some things to think about and consider before you figure out the best way to get the shot. I'm sure there is a safer way, and probably BETTER way to get the shot in the end.

Good luck.

Bill Totolo · March 5, 2004

OK, I'll clarify a bit.

The SCRIPT calls for the ATV's to travel at 80 mph.

I'm asking what's the safest speed recommended for

an operator to travel. I mentioned 20 mph.

OK, I'll follow your advice Mitch and try over at

the steadicam forum.

Brad Grimmett · March 6, 2004

OK, I'll clarify a bit.

The SCRIPT calls for the ATV's to travel at 80 mph.

I'm asking what's the safest speed recommended for

an operator to travel. I mentioned 20 mph.

OK, I'll follow your advice Mitch and try over at

the steadicam forum.

OK, I guess you just want your question answered and no other information. Sorry if I wasn't concise enough.

30 mph is the max.

Of course there are a million factors to consider. You can go faster in some situations and slower in others, but you just want one short answer, so there ya go.

What's with this board lately? I tried to give a very detailed and helpful answer, and all I get in return is what I consider to be kind of a rude reply. Why? Because I gave you too much information? Because I didn't answer the way you wanted?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your response, but I put some time and effort into trying to help YOU out with information that you need, and it seems like you don't care. Is this what's come of this forum? I like to learn and to help others learn when I can, but if this is the way it's gonna be I don't think I'll post here anymore.

Bill, this post in not ALL directed at you. There has been a rash lately of bs on this board and it's really annoying. There are 50 new posts everyday, and 35 of them are complete crap about Vin Diesel and how to revamp how movies are released and blah blah blah. It's clogging the board, and quite frankly, making me a bit grumpy about reading the posts here everyday. So sorry if this post seems more forceful than it should be.

I learn a hell of a lot more here than I teach, so I jump at the chance to contribute and help someone. I just don't like it when the response is "OK, I'll follow your advice Mitch and try over at the steadicam forum." No, "thanks for trying to help" or anything. Did I do something to elicit this kind of response from people?

Bill Totolo · March 6, 2004

No harm no foul.

Thanks Mitch AND Brad.

I visited the steadicam forum, I think I'll get acquainted with thier sight before posting. Most likely will find tons of info in THIER achives. Goes back as far as ours.

And I thought our board could get technichal, forget it.

Brad Grimmett · March 6, 2004

No harm no foul.

Thanks Mitch AND Brad.

I visited the steadicam forum, I think I'll get acquainted with thier sight before posting. Most likely will find tons of info in THIER achives. Goes back as far as ours.

And I thought our board could get technichal, forget it.

Bill,

Just to follow up....once you get an idea of how you think the best way to do the shot is, discuss it with the operator, because there are probably a few ways to do the shot depending on the particular situation, and it depends on your operator as to what they think is the best way for them. In other words, it may come down to preference. Some operators may want to do it off of a hitch mount on the back of a truck, and some may want to do it hardmounted off an ATV, etc. I'm sure your plan includes discussing it anyway, I just thought I'd mention it.

Good luck.

Bill Totolo · March 8, 2004

Honestly, this is pre-production to pre-production. The producers are trying to figure out a way to stick to a tight budget and this shot stands out.

If the shot stays in I will probably work with a storyboard artist and then defer to the experience of a key grip and the steadicam operator.

Of course I'd love a jib arm on a vehicle, something like Filmo Technics Auto-Robot Crane with flight head [seven axis gryostabilized system] but I don't see that happening on this shoot, although if everything is a go I will probably have a chat with them anyway.

Thanks for the tips, always appreciated.

Brad Grimmett · March 8, 2004

Of course I'd love a jib arm on a vehicle, something like Filmo Technics Auto-Robot Crane with flight head [seven axis gryostabilized system] but I don't see that happening on this shoot, although if everything is a go I will probably have a chat with them anyway.

Thanks for the tips, always appreciated.

Never seen or heard of that crane or head before. Is it pretty new? Seems like a bunch of new gyro stabilized heads have been popping up in the last few years. Pretty cool.

Bob Hayes · March 17, 2004

The easiest and safest way to achieve your shots is to find a smooth highway running next to you ATV track and shoot from the highway. And remember have everyone wear helmets!