The Master - Arriflex 765

K Borowski · August 22, 2011

Adam, I think the issue here is whether whatever incarnation of 5-perf. 65mm is being used as opposed to 16, 35, or HD, not what type of 65mm camera is being utilized by production.

It is funny if someone is feeding off of poster's frustration. Generally I only reduce myself to such trickery on or around the 1st of the 4th month of the year.

Adam Hunt · August 22, 2011

Adam, I think the issue here is whether whatever incarnation of 5-perf. 65mm is being used as opposed to 16, 35, or HD, not what type of 65mm camera is being utilized by production.

I was responding to a question someone asked before the IMDb page was changed. That should be very clear since I quoted the question.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Adam Hunt

K Borowski · August 22, 2011

No it wasn't clear to me. :)

Jock Blakley · August 25, 2011

I know it's a forlorn hope, but what's the current status of the COSHARP set-up?

It's very exciting to hear of a production in 65mm again regardless of how it's distributed... photochemical reduction prints would be amazing and photochemical 70 mm prints would be beyond belief, so a 4K DCP would more than decent.

Weird though that both times Ron Fricke has done something in 65 mm and everybody says "last 65 mm for sure", they've been followed by a more mainstream 65 mm production the next year - Baraka then Hamlet, and now Samsara then The Master.

Adam Hunt · August 26, 2011

Something interesting over on REDUSER: A thread about The Dark Knight Rises being shot in IMAX.

The thread moves from "IMAX is awesome" to "we should convince Christoper Nolan to shoot with RED" to "people who still shoot on film are idiots". Blah, blah, blah... But then something interesting near the end: Somebody says they worked on PT Anderson's new film while it shot in Hawaii and that "it was 65mm". Interesting when previous discussion was about mixing 35mm anamorphic and 65mm IMAX that he just stated "it was 65mm". Does anybody have a membership over at REDUSER and can contact this guy to confirm if it was all 65mm or a mix?

REDUSER thread

Edited August 26, 2011 by Adam Hunt

John Sprung · August 26, 2011

COSHARP was a Tech Council project, I was a member back in those days, and heard a lot of the progress reports. It was fussy, required extreme precision, but they did get some adequate results. The theory was that it would be an inexpensive way to get from 65 original to scope workprint. The clever part was that both pieces of film were on sprockets that were machined from a single piece of steel at the exposure point. Dick Stumpf of Universal was the guy pushing it, good man. Alas, he died in February of 2006. CFI is gone, the buildings were torn down a few years ago.

-- J.S.

Keith Walters · August 27, 2011

Does anybody have a membership over at REDUSER and can contact this guy to confirm if it was all 65mm or a mix?

REDUSER thread

Why not set up your own account? It only takes a few minutes and doesn't cost anything.

Adam Hunt · August 27, 2011

Why not set up your own account? It only takes a few minutes and doesn't cost anything.

At the risk of starting an argument: I'm not a RED fanboy, nor do I like to have "discussions" with fanboys. In fact they are one of my least favourite things on the internet. So I have no need to join a 100% fanboy board. Let's just leave it at that.

I found contact info for the guy and sent him a nice message asking him if he could clear things up for us about what The Master is shooting. Hopefully he can do so. I am super curious. A new 100% 65mm production would be great to see.

Brian Rose · August 27, 2011

A new 100% 65mm production would be great to see.

Yes, yes, yes! I've got no delusions that 65mm will see any kind of revival on par with the sixties heydey. Let's face facts, it's a format on lifesupport. But I would love for just. one. more. Something to send out the format in style.

Adam Hunt · August 27, 2011

Yes, yes, yes! I've got no delusions that 65mm will see any kind of revival on par with the sixties heydey. Let's face facts, it's a format on lifesupport. But I would love for just. one. more. Something to send out the format in style.

Maybe not to the point of it's heyday, but it is making some kind of a comeback. More and more major films are popping up with segments shot in 5-perf 65mm. Shutter Island, The Tree Of Life, Inception, Unknown, and The Master all shot partial 65mm, and there is of course the 100% 65mm Samsara. There was even a recent foreign film, Nanga Parbat, shot partially in 65mm, and rumours of a Bollywood film or two slated for some 65mm scenes. There may be some other recent films I am missing as well. Oh, and according to IMDb Pro The Mad Trapper is slated for partial 65mm.

Add to them major films shot partially in IMAX: The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises, Transformers 2, Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol. And then there are rumours of The Master being 100% 65mm, and The Dark Knight Rises being anything from mostly IMAX, to 100% IMAX, to an IMAX/65mm mix.

That is hardly a format on life support. This trend seems to be steadily building, so it will be interesting to see what is on the horizon. Even if The Master is not 100% 65mm, I have a feeling we will see a new 100% 65mm film come out of Hollywood very soon.

K Borowski · August 27, 2011

Not to be a naysayer, but if Kodak goes under 65mm will die, as will all IMAX 15/70 theatres.

I hope, to put it in Star Trek terms that under best circumstances, 65mm film will "hopefully, exist for a good while." Bonus points for identifying the quote. But the war is going very badly for the Federation at this point. Starfleet command believes that defeat is inevitable.

50% of theatres will be digitally U.S. domestic by year end. There's not going to be any sort of photochemical revival at this point because more than half the screens can't even play it! 35mm is a secondary concern already, let alone optimizing the theatrical experience with it in mind.

Keith Walters · August 27, 2011

At the risk of starting an argument: I'm not a RED fanboy, nor do I like to have "discussions" with fanboys. In fact they are one of my least favourite things on the internet. So I have no need to join a 100% fanboy board.

Well you have started an argument.

I regularly post over there, so does Stephen Williams, so does David Mullen, so does Geoff Boyle (who runs CML)and so do a lot of other people who will be glad to hear they they're Fanboys.

So get your damned facts straight: It's not a "100% fanboy board", it's more like 99.9998% :P

Brian Rose · August 27, 2011

Maybe not to the point of it's heyday, but it is making some kind of a comeback. More and more major films are popping up with segments shot in 5-perf 65mm.

A good point, but what is sad is it all winds up getting reduced through the 4K DI workflow and comes out rather blah on the other end, because the projection technology has yet to catch up with the native resolution of the 65mm format, where you need 8K for it to really resolve.

I recall seeing Dark Knight in 15/70 Imax, and it was glorious every time they switched to a 65mm scene. A few years later i went to the same theatre to see Inception, only in the interim the projector had between switched to a **(obscenity removed)** digital LieMax one. Even though I was watching scenes I knew to be shot in 5 perf 65mm, I couldn't tell the difference in quality between it and the 35mm stuff, apart from there being no artifacts of the animorphic process. I could've cried.

I've said it before, and I've said it again, if I were a big studio, I'd be shooting 65mm for my major productions, because it is SO RESILIENT. Reduces beautiful to 35mm scope. Would be cheaper to blow up to Imax than the DMR process, and be of better quality. And it has so much resolution packed in it that it would be far more future resistant than any current high def format.

Adam Hunt · August 27, 2011

Well you have started an argument.

I regularly post over there, so does Stephen Williams, so does David Mullen, so does Geoff Boyle (who runs CML)and so do a lot of other people who will be glad to hear they they're Fanboys.

So get your damned facts straight: It's not a "100% fanboy board", it's more like 99.9998% :P

Ok, 99.9998% then. Actually, to be fair it's not all a fanboy board. If you are regularly shooting with RED and need to exchange info and tips about the cameras themselves then it's a good place. I mean it is called REDUSER after all, and as far as I know that's why that board was started. I was really talking about it's use outside of that (but I generalized too much). I'm not a RED user, nor will I be at any point in the foreseeable future. Even if the option for me to shoot 35mm film were not feasible, there would be several other digital acquisition options that I would choose ahead of it. And because I don't hold the opinion that "RED is the be all and end all" I don't think my presence would be at all welcome over there.

Adam Hunt · August 27, 2011

Not to be a naysayer, but if Kodak goes under 65mm will die, as will all IMAX 15/70 theatres.

I don't think that's true at all. IMAX has strong ticket sales these days and many parties have a lot invested in it. Even if Kodak went under, which naysayers have been declaring is eminent for like 6 or 7 years now and I am not at all sold on, I'm sure Fuji would step up. Think about it, IMAX is not going to just wash their hands of something that is making them money and close up all their theatres. Nor are the studios going to stop making DMRs when they get a premium in ticket prices from them. Without Kodak they would just turn to Fuji. Yeah, it's not the biggest market in the world, but from Fuji's point of view it would be a sudden 300-400% increase in their film sales. That's pretty damn good, even for a niche market.

50% of theatres will be digitally U.S. domestic by year end. There's not going to be any sort of photochemical revival at this point because more than half the screens can't even play it! 35mm is a secondary concern already, let alone optimizing the theatrical experience with it in mind.

I thought it was more than that already. Besides we are talking about acquisition format here, not exhibition format. Yeah traditional 70mm exhibition is few and far between these days, but then again IMAX is gaining in popularity, and a DMR from a 65mm negative is better than a DMR from a 35mm negative or any of the digital formats. In fact any exhibition format can gain from 65mm acquisition. Digital post these days means that your shooting format is not tied to your exhibition format, you can "print" from anything to anything these days, so just because true 5-perf 70mm projection may not be around it does not mean there is no benefit to 65mm acquisition.

But, although rare, 70mm is far from gone. Here in Toronto the brand-new purpose-built TIFF Lightbox was outfitted with 5 screens that all have 5-perf 70mm projection, as well as 35mm, 4k digital, and even 16mm projection.