Super 16 conversion

Eugene Lehnert · April 25, 2005

Has anyone ever gotten a Super 16 conversion of an RX5 bolex? I have an RX5 with a 10mm viewfinder. I was looking at http://www.cameraspro.com/ to have it done there. Anybody have any experience with this? Pros and Cons?

Mister X · April 25, 2005

You may want to contact Guy Bodart, first, on how long it may be for him to do the conversion.

I've sent him my RX-5 for conversion to Super16, several months ago, but have not received it back, yet. He may have a backlog of work to finish due to an illness. Fortunately, I've gotten an RX-1 to work with, that was already converted by him.

April 25, 2005

Also check out this company:

http://www.jkcamera.com/Super16.htm

They've been doing Super-16 conversions for a looong time.

Steven Budden · May 13, 2005

Somewhere I read a post that said guy at cameras pro... his work was like a grade school science project caliber but it worked." The factory is an expensive place to do the conversion ($2000 ish) but they throw in a lube job ($300 at cameras pro) and a 1 year warranty. Depends. I just bought an SBM in really nice condition so I was thinking of doing the factory conversion. But is that just a complete rip off, like getting your car repaired at the dealer? I guess it depends on what you want to use the camera for. If you're going to do one short and resell it, maybe the cheap conversion, but if you want it to last, maybe the factory.

Steven

May 13, 2005

I've been looking into this too, and I'm probably going to go with JKCamera, although Les Bosher includes a conversion from turret to a hard bayonet front as part of his conversion. The guy at JK has been doing these conversions forever, so I'm certain he knows exactly what he's doing, and he's here in the states.

Steven Budden · May 14, 2005

I've been looking into this too, and I'm probably going to go with JKCamera, although Les Bosher includes a conversion from turret to a hard bayonet front as part of his conversion. The guy at JK has been doing these conversions forever, so I'm certain he knows exactly what he's doing, and he's here in the states.

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I've considered using him too. I just don't know what the difference might be between his work and the factory work. When I asked, he just said "they both work fine." But why is one $2500 and one $900? Anyone?

Steven

May 14, 2005

If you look at the price of any of the new Bolex products they're similarly high. My guess is that the cost of doing business in Switzerland is very high - high taxes, high wages, high transportation and energy costs, and so on, and it all contributes to the high cost of the conversion. It seems that the price of everything coming out of the colder parts of Europe is astronomical. I would definitely send my camera to Les Bosher in England before I'd spend a fortune on a factory mod.

I note that from JK's website that they are also able, at additional cost, to increase the magnification of the viewfinder for older reflex Bolexes. This probably isn't a problem for you with your Rex5, but will be great for Rex4's and 3's with the 10x finder (it becomes 14x with the modification). On the downside I think you can use only one lens at a time on the Super 16 turret, making Les' hardfront conversion to bayonet a more attractive proposition.

Also, JK's cost is more like $1,200, not $900, and to me that's still a fair chunk of change, considering that I bought my Rex4's for $150 for the pair.

Steven Budden · May 15, 2005

If you look at the price of any of the new Bolex products they're similarly high. My guess is that the cost of doing business in Switzerland is very high - high taxes, high wages, high transportation and energy costs, and so on, and it all contributes to the high cost of the conversion. It seems that the price of everything coming out of the colder parts of Europe is astronomical. I would definitely send my camera to Les Bosher in England before I'd spend a fortune on a factory mod.

I note that from JK's website that they are also able, at additional cost, to increase the magnification of the viewfinder for older reflex Bolexes. This probably isn't a problem for you with your Rex5, but will be great for Rex4's and 3's with the 10x finder (it becomes 14x with the modification). On the downside I think you can use only one lens at a time on the Super 16 turret, making Les' hardfront conversion to bayonet a more attractive proposition.

Also, JK's cost is more like $1,200, not $900, and to me that's still a fair chunk of change, considering that I bought my Rex4's for $150 for the pair.

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Ian,

Yeah, I'd forgotten that the Rex 5 costs a few hundred more to convert than the SBM. I actually bought the SBM for that reason, though I was originally leaning towards a rex 5... I liked that fact that I could use large zooms or primes. Also I was lucky enough to find a 13x viewfinder so that lowers that price a little too, according to my research. I'm thinking a little about the resale value too, so that when I eventually upgrade to a true synch camera (if ever) I could resell it for around what I put into it, maybe more. I know it makes me a little wary when I see converted cameras on ebay, because there are so many ways to get to that "conversion". I've seen some pretty hacked up conversions, with messy drill holes and visible file marks, etc. Does the JKcamera conversion come with a registration test or a lube job? Did you ever get the Les Bosher price? I emailed him but he hasn't responded yet.

Thanks for the advice. By replying to my posts you're making this whole things easier. What is your experience level with filmmaking by the way?

Steven

May 16, 2005

The SBM is maybe the best of both worlds - the most fully perfected version of the classic spring drive camera coupled with a very strong and modern bayonet mount. I had an SB once (exactly like an SBM but no magazine mount) but sold it because - well, I needed money. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Remember that your SBM becomes a true sync camera with the addition of the right motor. Not a silent camera, but not impossibly noisy either. You might never need to graduate to another camera.

I wouldn't want my camera butchered by some hack doing a second-rate conversion either. Both JK and Les have been doing conversions for years. Les did email me with a price for the conversion of a Rex4, and I'll try to find the email - I think it was around 650 British pounds, including the hard front. I would imagine it would be less for an SBM. I know Les is very busy, but he'll probably get back to you eventually. Remember, he does all kinds of modifications.

As for my level of experience, I'm just a duffer who wants to make movies. I've shot a fair amount of Super 8 and a bit of 16mm, but I'm not a professional. I've been trying to put together a decent sync sound package piece by piece (the stupid way) and I'm just about there. I have that insane itch to make a no-budget feature along the lines of The Following. I have an Eclair ACL which I hope to have modified (by Les) to Super 16. I also have a Bolex M5, which I acquired for next to nothing, and the 2 Rex4's, which I snagged because they were an insane bargain and I figured I could always resell them at a profit. My ACL has a Tobin motor, by the way.

Steven Budden · May 16, 2005

The SBM is maybe the best of both worlds - the most fully perfected version of the classic spring drive camera coupled with a very strong and modern bayonet mount. I had an SB once (exactly like an SBM but no magazine mount) but sold it because - well, I needed money. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Remember that your SBM becomes a true sync camera with the addition of the right motor. Not a silent camera, but not impossibly noisy either. You might never need to graduate to another camera.

I wouldn't want my camera butchered by some hack doing a second-rate conversion either. Both JK and Les have been doing conversions for years. Les did email me with a price for the conversion of a Rex4, and I'll try to find the email - I think it was around 650 British pounds, including the hard front. I would imagine it would be less for an SBM. I know Les is very busy, but he'll probably get back to you eventually. Remember, he does all kinds of modifications.

As for my level of experience, I'm just a duffer who wants to make movies. I've shot a fair amount of Super 8 and a bit of 16mm, but I'm not a professional. I've been trying to put together a decent sync sound package piece by piece (the stupid way) and I'm just about there. I have that insane itch to make a no-budget feature along the lines of The Following. I have an Eclair ACL which I hope to have modified (by Les) to Super 16. I also have a Bolex M5, which I acquired for next to nothing, and the 2 Rex4's, which I snagged because they were an insane bargain and I figured I could always resell them at a profit. My ACL has a Tobin motor, by the way.

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Ian,

Sounds like you and I have similar ambitions. Are you talking Christopher Nolan's Following? I have had similar ideas, and my ideal model is Pi: Faith in Chaos.

Do you have anything written? I suppose that is the first hurdle. While I haven't gotten into the physical film part of it yet, I've been writing pretty steadily, trying to put together a simple, relatively existential tale about the confusions of youth... you know.

Sounds like you're stocking up on cameras. The SBM doesn't seem loud at all but for the 100 ft metal daylight spools that are in there rubbing against the sides. I got the SBM for six hundred, with a lot of accesories, POE lens, filters, metal case, an old bolex BXE 70a motor, etc. Clearly it has hardly been used, for better or worse. The spring motor runs like new. No deal like your RX 4's but lower than all the RX 5's I was looking at. I've been slowly adding parts too since christmas.

I feel like this adding parts thing could go on forever. I'm sure you've experienced a similar feeling. It's fun trying to hunt for the perfect machine within reach. But part of me feels like I should just dive in. This part hunting could be an excuse for me to delay. Fine, a few lenses, the conversion, and I'm starting! That's it!

Steven

PS. Sigh.

May 17, 2005

Yes, that's the movie I was talking about. I think "The Following" is the ideal model for a low/no-budget feature - for so many reasons that I can't begin to go into them right now. I happen to know that the dialogue scenes were shot with an old Arri 16BL, and the exteriors with a wind-up Bolex. "Pi" is another great example. It was shot with an Aaton, but it could have been shot with any 16mm sync camera. I'm sure you know that Christopher Nolan directed this summer's big Batman movie.

I do have a script, but I'm actually bogged down with another writing project right now that I'm doing with a partner, and I work full time in an unrelated field.

I hope I don't seem like I'm "stocking up" on cameras. After "The Following" cemented my desire to make a film, I resolved to put together *one* outfit that would allow me to shoot a film of similarly modest scope, without spending any more than was necessary. As you have no doubt noticed, once you start adding bits and pieces to you arsenal it's hard to stop. There's also no end to the amount of money one can spend... be careful.

It sounds like you got a great deal on your SBM!

Steven Budden · May 19, 2005

Yes, that's the movie I was talking about. I think "The Following" is the ideal model for a low/no-budget feature - for so many reasons that I can't begin to go into them right now. I happen to know that the dialogue scenes were shot with an old Arri 16BL, and the exteriors with a wind-up Bolex. "Pi" is another great example. It was shot with an Aaton, but it could have been shot with any 16mm sync camera. I'm sure you know that Christopher Nolan directed this summer's big Batman movie.

I do have a script, but I'm actually bogged down with another writing project right now that I'm doing with a partner, and I work full time in an unrelated field.

I hope I don't seem like I'm "stocking up" on cameras. After "The Following" cemented my desire to make a film, I resolved to put together *one* outfit that would allow me to shoot a film of similarly modest scope, without spending any more than was necessary. As you have no doubt noticed, once you start adding bits and pieces to you arsenal it's hard to stop. There's also no end to the amount of money one can spend... be careful.

It sounds like you got a great deal on your SBM!

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Steven Budden · May 19, 2005

Yes, that's the movie I was talking about. I think "The Following" is the ideal model for a low/no-budget feature - for so many reasons that I can't begin to go into them right now. I happen to know that the dialogue scenes were shot with an old Arri 16BL, and the exteriors with a wind-up Bolex. "Pi" is another great example. It was shot with an Aaton, but it could have been shot with any 16mm sync camera. I'm sure you know that Christopher Nolan directed this summer's big Batman movie.

I do have a script, but I'm actually bogged down with another writing project right now that I'm doing with a partner, and I work full time in an unrelated field.

I hope I don't seem like I'm "stocking up" on cameras. After "The Following" cemented my desire to make a film, I resolved to put together *one* outfit that would allow me to shoot a film of similarly modest scope, without spending any more than was necessary. As you have no doubt noticed, once you start adding bits and pieces to you arsenal it's hard to stop. There's also no end to the amount of money one can spend... be careful.

It sounds like you got a great deal on your SBM!

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Funny how both of those films were black and white, from the same year, about existential loners, and jumpstarted pretty huge film careers. I didn't actually notice Nolan directed Batman Begins. It never occured to me to even check out the director. That should be... interesting. No memento.

I guess I got a good deal on the SBM. The was just surfing through ebay, saw this listing that just said... Bolex Movie Camera. As a sheer long shot, I emailed them for pics, and lo and behold, an SBM with a 13 viewfinder and a lot of extras! What are the odds?

I've decided to go with JK camera for the conversion as well. Procam in Arizona also does a conversion for the same price as JK. They're one of the three authorized bolex people in the US, but I'm not sure who does the conversion. And I think I'm doing primes instead of the zoom, because I want to keep the artificial lighting issue to a minimal, and use a lot of natural light. Anyway, bit by bit. Also, I think you're right about the tobin Motor. I found a pretty sweet one that does crystal synch and time lapse, but it looks a little clunky and it's circa $1000.

I understand the "job in an unrelated field" thing. I too am working on a script, as well as thinking of applying to a film school somewhere. So I'm kind of putting together a portfolio for that too. Anyway, if you ever need help on your film when it goes into production let me know. I'm a neophyte to film but a fairly strong creative writer/ editor/ critic.

You read Story?

May 19, 2005

Steve, when you get your camera back from JK, please let us all know what you think about the conversion. I have a feeling you'll be happy with it. Your overall investment (camera plus cost of conversion) makes this a really deal for a quality Super 16 camera.

I personally don't believe in going to film school (I'm sure there are lots of posts elsewhere on this subject) but believe in the Robet Rodriguez "just shoot the damn thing" approach. What is story? A magazine?

Steven Budden · May 20, 2005

Steve, when you get your camera back from JK, please let us all know what you think about the conversion. I have a feeling you'll be happy with it. Your overall investment (camera plus cost of conversion) makes this a really deal for a quality Super 16 camera.

I personally don't believe in going to film school (I'm sure there are lots of posts elsewhere on this subject) but believe in the Robet Rodriguez "just shoot the damn thing" approach. What is story? A magazine?

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Ian,

I think one of the things that film school does is motivate you to actually put together some decent work. I mean, if you must make a film as a thesis, then nothing's really going to stop you after investing so much cash in the program. Also, you'd have all the school equipment to work with and learn on, be surrounded by people aching to be in crews or star in films... and you never know. Professors working in the industry might have some decent connections. I'm thinking an MFA. Applications aren't until November, which I know will arrive in a heartbeat anyway, but I thought I would try to throw something together before then.

Story is a book on screenwriting. It is kind of spoofed in Kaufman's Adaptation. After I read it, I felt like my screenwriting went up a few notches in a single read (it's fairly long), and those 40 - 60 scenes don't seem quite as daunting anymore.

I wish we could all come to some consensus about the best conversions in the US. Maybe I'll do a post on that while I'm at work ( I've got nothing better to do).

Steven

May 20, 2005

Steven, all of your points about film school are well taken. Film school just wouldn't be the place for me - I have plenty of experience in the industry (albeit not as a cinematographer) and it has made me very cynical about the value of a film school degree. Plus I'm an old fart and I feel I just don't have the time to spend discussing film theory when I could be making films.

I'll look for "Story" at the bookstore, sounds interesting.