Jump to content

Jim Jannard

Basic Member
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Jim Jannard

  1. Keith... Stephen's posts have credibility because he owns an EPIC. You don't. You have been disruptive ever since you pretended to be James Mathers. You forced me to get security protection at IBC 2007. Tim Tyler verified that you were, in fact, James Mathers. You cost me money for extra security at that show. Bad move.


    Stephen has an EPIC. He is credible. You aren't.



  2. There are a few significant milestones happening regarding RED.


    The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo will be released in 4K. It is one of the best looking movies ever released. (You can be the judge)


    The Hobbit will be released in 4K 3D at several locations. That will be a 1st.


    Spiderman 4 will be released in 4K is selected theaters...


    There are several more major features that will be released in 4K. The list will grow quite significantly in 2012.



  3. 1st off... I'd be surprised if RED has run it's course. My bet is that we have actually pushed the industry to step up. We will continue to do so...


    Keith's comments mean nothing to me. Big posts behind a little mouse.


    Andrew's post mean everything to me... he is a customer. I'll do whatever it takes to make him happy and solve his issues.


    The Philip Bloom situation was a tragedy. I caused that. My fault. A misunderstanding that went terribly wrong. No excuses. My bad. But it had nothing to do with EPIC's capability.


    Stephen owns an EPIC. He is respected here. His comments and opinions matter. Stephen wouldn't compromise his reputation for anything. I'd consider listening to what he has to say.


    RED is just beginning. We aren't going away... no matter what Phil wishes.


    The amount of biggest budget projects shot on EPIC points to the fact that someone thinks EPIC matters. And the number is growing... not the other way around.


    We took care of our RED ONE customers with an upgrade path to EPIC. No other company has ever done that. We have upgrade paths for our EPIC customers to the Dragon sensor. Obsolescence obsolete. Truly.


    If you don't like our presentation... I get that. But pretending that RED is done or doesn't matter just isn't reality.



  4. The Canon price is $20K. For 1080P. A similar package price for Scarlet is about $13.5K for 5K stills and 4K motion. Canon sells you a different camera for a Canon mount and a PL mount. Scarlet (and EPIC) offers interchangeable mounts. Canon shoots RGB. Scarlet and EPIC REDCODE RAW.


    You can choose to not like us (a trend here)... but you can't fault us for trying to deliver the most for the least... and for pushing the industry.



  5. My heated and emotional response to Keith is based on a lot of bad history. I was forced to hire security at IBC for the 1st time in my life due to Keith's threats when he posed, posted and PM'd as James Murdoch.


    David Mullen is a trained professional. David has used RED, including EPIC, on a feature film called "Big Sur". Stephen is now an owner of an EPIC. Neither is a RED fanboy. They both post what is real. Their posts are valid.


    Keith's agenda is only to be disruptive. Since the beginning. Maybe it started when he was fired from Panavision. I don't know. Whatever the reason... I don't really care.


    We have worked hard to build a camera that can be used on any job. And apparently it is worthy of being used on the top features as well as Indie productions.


    It is frustrating to have someone that doesn't direct, shoot or in any way have anything to do with any project throw out barbs against RED without regards to the hard work we have done or the influence we have had to change the industry.


    I'll stop posting here (again). But before I do... I'd encourage the viewers here to listen to Stephen and David. They have hands on knowledge of RED. Keith does not. David and Stephen have no agenda. Keith apparently does.


    I admit that Keith brings out the worst in me. So he wins. He has pushed my buttons to the point where I do not post in a rational way. This started in 2006. Way to go Keith (James Murdoch). The industry is better off because you post. Or not.



  6. Keith... you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. Sorry. Forget the K's... Stephen has said that he sees a big difference. Apparently he is happy with his EPIC. And then you go into some random rant. He owns a camera and you don't. Easy to understand. His opinion matters and yours doesn't.


    From the time you became James Murdoch and posted a bunch of crap until now... you have no credibility whatsoever. I had to hire security at IBC because of your PM's.


    RED has been working 24/7 trying to deliver solutions to cinematographers. You have done nothing whatsoever.


    RED is shooting the biggest budget features of 2011. You are taking pot-shots. How does that make you feel?


    You were banned from reduser because you are disrupted. Nothing else.


    Find something to do besides attempting clever responses that have no real meaning.


    Our sweat goes into trying to make a difference. You sit at your keyboard with your little mouse...



  7. Aside from this, the thing I can't work out is how you fit a set of rods on the damn thing.


    A crucial part of a camera system (for high end production at least) is being able to put matte box, follow focus, and so forth on the camera. From the pictures and video I've seen there's too much camera underneath the lens to have your typical baseplate. There does seem to be an adapter for rods (although I don't know how much it would support a 24-290) but it looks like with the adapter you can't slide the rods back, which means you need a different set of rods for each length lens and will have to pull all the aks off to change lenses...


    Also the LCD in some of the pics seems fixed - not very useful for an AC or extreme camera positions...


    Anyone know more about this?


    There is a baseplate for Arri standard 19mm or 15mm rods. The LCD or EVF can go virtually anywhere. The configurations are endless.



  8. One clarification... with EPIC you can have an ISO 25-250 brain or an ISO 200-2000 brain. These aren't different brains... it is a quick mod to the same brain. Like loading different film stocks.


    Another thought... the digital revolution is in your financial best interests. Let's assume that the day is coming when a digital camera has more resolution, equal color, greater DR and retains the "feel" of film because there is no in-camera sharpening. It will cost less to buy one than rent a film camera for two weeks. And the media you record to will be reusable.



  9. I dunno Jim, I've seen '19 from Kodak pushed 2 stops which it still a-ok in my book (on 35). . . . Depends, as mentioned on what one can accept and most importantly, scene content! I've seen film and digital look "noisiest," in lower contras scenes where the eye is more prone to "notice," the differences in luminance that grain and noise introduce...

    I'd also say that while Digital sensors are getting better, I seriously doubt they'll outperform the blanket term of "film." Will they be better than 500asa film--- some of them probably already are. But, will they be better, which is in and of itself an arbitrary term, than 50D film at the same time, probably not. That's film's biggest strength, the ability to choose speed relative to what you're shooting. Regardless of what smart things you can do with data off of a chip, the fact remains that it is still balanced for some speed and some color. With a film camera you just swap out the stock for what's appropriate in that scene as opposed to doing so electronically. The electronic method can often yield very nice results, but the more you finagle the data, the more you tend to loose and the more artifacts you're prone to introduce. Perhaps one day we'll have "field swappable sensors," where you can load a 50D sensor into a camera for that shot in the desert at noon, and then swap out to a 3200T sensor for a night exterior in a hostile location where you can't rig. But, until that day comes I wholly believe that film and digital will coexist as production formats much as they do now chosen for budgetary(sad)/physical reasons as well aesthetics.


    p.s. if you do invent "field swappable sensors" I request 1 free camera of the current generation for thinking it up!


    Adrian... all good points. But I would suggest that if you haven't shot the Alexa or M-X sensor, a digital vs. film discussion is not current. I am not saying that every aspect is there today... but many are. And I have seen what is around the corner... sensors are moving way more rapidly than you might expect.


    With the new sensors now being much more ND friendly... it is not hard to make your noise-free (relative to film) digital sensor act like ISO 200-2000 or ISO 25-250. With the M-X sensor and new color science... there is no drama to shooting tungsten. Something we couldn't say two years ago. We bought Ren-Mar Studios a couple of months ago and inherited several hundred tungsten lights as part of the deal. Our original idea was to convert half of them to daylight... until we saw the M-X sensor. Now we have decided to leave them all alone. Actually... almost everything I now shoot at the studios is tungsten.


    I guess the point is that digital is just now coming out of the early years. And progress is accelerating.


    Don't forget... our mission is to do film justice on its way out. Film doesn't submit to Moore's law. It will never be faster to process or cheaper. A 400' load of film will never be smaller. But it has a wonderful legacy and history based on it's capabilities. We not only acknowledge that but want to make sure the digital revolution pays homage to film. That means that 1080P or 2K is not good enough. Studios are now re-releasing 4K scans of many older classics shot on film. That can't happen with a 1080P or 2K digital camera. 4K bayer is the same measured resolution of slow speed S35 film (3.2K). 5K Bayer is a measured 4K resolution. 1080P digital doesn't come close. The best we have measured is a Sony F35 at 1.7K... about 1/4 the resolution of 4K Bayer.


    We believe in everything film. That includes resolution, color, DR and feel. Our mission is to continue to provide a worthy alternative to film because digital is the future. God help us if 1080P and 10 stops of DR was deemed "good enough".


    As for replaceable sensors... we have done the next best thing with replaceable "brains" in EPIC and Scarlet. I completely agree with you. You can have an ISO 25-250 brain. Or an ISO 200-2000 brain. And when new technology emerges, you can replace your brain without buying a new camera. If new battery technology comes out (and it will)... replace just that module. Our philosophy accepts that technology will advance and we don't think our customers need to buy a new camera every time a new recording media or capability shows up.


    The RED ONE (obsolescence obsolete... remember?) is the 1st camera in the world to offer a sensor upgrade. While it isn't as upgradeable as EPIC... we have offered our customers full credit in trade for an EPIC. Not sure what more we can do to make the point that we are standing behind our customers as we get more proficient at this business and technology advances. And we knew nothing 4 years ago.


    I have no issue with people shooting film until the last day it is produced... I have issue with people shooting 1080P as a film alternative. 1080P and 2K are not future-proof. Film is. I also believe it is the responsibility of digital camera makers to continue to improve sensors until there are no more questions about any aspect of performance. I wish it could happen in one day... but it is a process.


    Someone commented about us being a marketing company. We are. But we also employ over 200 engineers developing sensors and electronics for our camera program. They are RED employees. I know for sure. I sign the checks. Everything EPIC and Scarlet is being core engineered internally. That doesn't really mean anything... except we are not just a marketing company. I am quite sure that we have more dedicated resources involved in digital cinema motion capture than any other company (assuming you don't count line-skipping).



  10. I couldn't get past this howler:


    To be honest, I never thought the dynamic range discussion was a valid reason. Just look at the final result. It’s hardly a reason to baulk at two stops less than film, if a theatrical print made in a high-speed printing process has at best seven stops dynamic range, and your TV (that goes for DVD and Blu-Ray as well, of course) only displays 8-bit colour. But anyway, if that’s your only reason, it’s gone. The dynamic range of these two cameras blew me away. ARRI has measured 13.5 stops. What we found seemed to support that. Which brings me finally to our test.



    The reality is, you don't need anything like the dynamic range of the original scene to produce a satisfactory picture.

    The average sunny outdoor scene can have a total range that easily exceeds 20 stops, which means that no known capture medium can capture everything.

    However once it is captured (as well as the medium will allow), the difference in brightness betweent he brightest and the darkest parts of the reproduced image can be massively reduced, and you eye still interprets it as an acceptable picture. Look at these images





    The first one has the full 256 possible levels of an 8-bit JPEG image. That is, the brightest pixels are at level 255, while the darkest pixels are at zero. Since we need at least one step in the 255-step "staircase" to produce any sort of image, it follows that there is a 2^8 or an 8-stop brightness range in this image.

    Now, by fiddling with the photoshop "curves" function, we can lift the darkest pixels away from the zero line, reducing the contrast.

    The second picture has the blacks lifted up to a level of 32, so there is now only a 256/32 = 8 times difference betrween the brightest and darkest pixels. 8 = 2^3, so that's only three stops.

    The third picture has the blacks lifted up to a level of 64, which means only 2 stops.

    The last one has its blacks lifted up to a level of 128, so there is now only a 1-stop difference between the brightest and darkest pixels.

    OK a trifle dull and washed-out looking, but you can still clearly make out the model's face, (or so they tell me :rolleyes:... )


    The important thing to understand is that, while you can have a vastly smaller difference in the brightness of adjacent features in a reproduced image, and still get perfectly satisfactory results, you still have to be able to capture the original, sometimes huge, differences in the first place, so as to have something to reduce! The more dynamic capture range the medium has, the better it can do this.


    It is routinely stated here and in other places that film has a dynamic range of "about 14 stops". I would dearly love to know where people get this figure from.


    Unfortunately, there are many ways to measure DR and most results are subject to some interpretation.


    The engineering definition is signal/noise. Typically, most understand it as holding detail in the brightest and darkest chips in a chart, like a Stouffer. The discrepancy usually comes on the dark end of the chart and how much noise is acceptable where there still is detail. Which is why DR measurements are not nearly as relevant, except for marketing, as useable range... what can you see in range while accepting the amount of noise. Then there is NR.


    Our sensor program is designed to continue to lower the noise floor. The M-X sensor is certainly proof that we have greater than 2 stops less noise than our original sensor. Our next sensor will have an additional more than 1.5 stops less noise than the M-X. This translates to greater DR and more useable range. The primary difference with the coming sensor is better highlight protection as well as less noise in the shadows.


    Digital usually falls down in the highlights... film in the shadows. This is one of the reasons that people still believe there is more DR in film. They are used to seeing better highlight control. The primary evidence for digital over film as it relates to DR is now found in the shadows. You can't shoot ISO 2000 and above and get descent results with film. You can with both our current sensor and the Alexa. All high ISOs with digital are just RAW plus a curve. The only way to achieve such great high ISO results with digital is if the noise floor is incredibly low.


    Sensor design... or more succinctly pixel design, is attacking both ends of the range. But it is still a work in progress/process. It seems clear to us that the day is near where a digital sensor will outperform film on every level... except grain. That can always be added.


    Film will never be dead. The projects shot on film will live forever (or at least as long as man keeps records). But it is dying in the respect that it's use will diminish relative to digital jobs. If that is the case... someone has to be respectful to the capabilities of film. Resolution, color, range and "feel". We are trying our best.



  11. ???

    I'm confused.

    You're 8-9 months away from a sensor with 15 stops of DR?!

    An extraordinary claim.

    A camera like that would wipe the floor with the competition.

    So, why are you bothering with the M-X?


    Also what do you mean by "15 stops"?

    The Dalsa has/had a 16-bit ADC but it had only about a 12 stop dynamic range.


    According to your competition, what you are suggesting appears to be theoretically impossible, particularly with a CMOS sensor.

    The military applications alone would probably be worth quite a few orders of magnitude than your present target market.

    And they'd probably let you play with lots of neato stuff :lol:


    These specs have been out for awhile... the M-X sensor has been measured in the last month by many people and in several different ways... including on the Arri DRTC (13.5 stops). Monstro has greater than 1.5 stops less noise than the M-X.


    Late this year is our target... but we currently don't have a history of being on time. Hopefully we will do better with the Monstro sensor. 1st application of that sensor is 24x36mm at 100 fps...



  12. Haha,because we enjoy pressing the buttons,they always work.


    I also read that piece,perhaps a little premature in sounding the death bells for film.

    I know it has largely happened in stills,particularly with commercial work.

    I for one still shoot occasionally on 10x8,although it's getting harder to get it processed.


    But seriously,I haven't had my Red upgraded to MX yet,but recently I did get the opportunity to have a play with a pre-production Alexa at Arri UK,and I hope to shoot with it soon.Seriously impressive camera,especially from an operators point of view.

    It looks like an ordinary shoe box,rather than the post-apocalyptic shoe box that the Red is.

    However I also had a chance to hold Ted's Epic prototype at the London Red day.

    I must say that Red have learned an enormous amount since the early days,regarding ergonomics.(Spec's influence perhaps?)

    If you can deliver on this one Jim,with real 4K,100fps & 15stops DR you'll have a camera to be very proud of.




    Tom... we are proud of EPIC but need to deliver it. Images from "Blackie" (1st working prototype) will be shown soon. It is measured 4K (from 5K Bayer), 100fps and 13.5 stops DR (according to the Arri test setup). 15 stops of DR won't happen until the next sensor due late this year.



  13. Mr. Jannard,


    The original question was:


    Is there any rough timeline on delivery of the Epic/Scarlet cameras?


    You take the time to indignantly correct Stephen, but don't take the time to answer the original post. Why is that? RED is your company, if anyone should be able to shed some light on the Epic/Scarlet timeline, it should be you. Why are you avoiding that question?





    Not avoiding the question... the answer is they will be delivered when they are ready. We are late... as we have acknowledged and has been posted here. Current thinking is early summer. We have working prototypes now and they will be shown at NAB (Tropicana). The complete list of sequence is posted on reduser... didn't feel the need to repost it here.


    I post on reduser every day (most every day) to keep our customers as up to date as possible. I really don't have the time to do that on every board so info like this is best found there. If you don't like the noise on that board, I have set up a reduser/recon/tips&thoughts thread with no posted comments for quicker viewing.



  14. Seems like the Red camp are not happy, another 'ambush' test that knew nothing about..........apparently it was Ted's camera one of the first to be upgraded...... firmware not the latest......sounds like a repeat of the Red One debut and every subsequent test everyone ever did.


    Not unhappy at all... just posting the facts while answering the question. We could have easily brought a camera with the production OLPF and new firmware. No worries though... we are happy to be included with the Alexa as one of the two future cameras.


    Why the need to stir it up so much? :-)



  15. I guess reality is finally hitting home, I got banned for questioning if specs would be met, a few weeks later Jim announced that 1 spec (2 sec start up time) would not be met, funny old world.


    Stephen... 1st off, you didn't get banned. You got a few hour "timeout". 2nd... it wasn't for questioning if the specs would be met.



  16. Is this something I should have done before the edit started?


    Every time I have downloaded the bundle from the Red site, RedAlert and RedRushes are the only apps to actually install on my computer. Is RedCine-X part of that bundle?




    Here is a link to the Apple Color plugin (beta).




    REDCINE-X is free and can be found here:





  17. I am approaching color-correction for a short I captured on the Red.


    Monitoring REDspace on-set, the images are so close to perfect for mastering. So... should I:


    A ) just continue working with REDspace and do a few polishes and output?


    B ) set the color space to PDlog and color gamma CameraRGB and start from 'scratch'?




    Ryan... I would strongly encourage you to use the new REDCINE-X and reset color space and gamma to REDcolor/REDgamma. Any future shoots should be done with camera Build 30. Test before shooting anything important.


    Sorry, just read that you are using Color.



  18. ????

    Are you sure you're replying to my post?

    I've never disagreed with most of that.

    They only thing I've ever disputed is the timing; that is, people over many years saying XXX had already happened, when it quite clearly (and painfully) had NOT.

    I don't know when, if ever, electronic sensors will be able to exactly emulate the performance of film, it's more the point where enough people will think they're "good enough"




    What the world needs badly is 4K projectors that are affordable, reliable and can be operated by your average minimum-wage popcorn seller/soda jerk/washroom cleaner/projectionist :lol:


    We seem to be agreeing on more things than not (finally). I especially agree with you on the need for 4K projectors in theaters.



  • Create New...