Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Hi

ang. 10 150 is a very old but i thing the most affortable for a newcamer to 16 mm film. Is not quiet sharp as the zeiss or the cooke and there is some wormer at the tones but that i thing is a matter of flavor. It cannot be used in super 16mm it does the vignettes. I used a lot one of those on a cp 16 r years ago and caused the vignettes a liitle at the corners enen on standar 16.

Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Cinematographer

Athens Greece.

Hi

I thing that the adaptor for this lense is for video cameras screw mount and looks very worn. BTW i have an angenieux 15 150 2.8 with my super 16 camera and the lense covers the super 16 . I am not a fan of ang lenses but tis one is quiet sharp. I used some times a Cannon 25 100 for video cameras in my c mount eclair npr.

HI

I thing there are not meny lenses for those camera . A good choice for a starter to standard 16 mm in cp mount is the anjenieux 10 150 old lense but covers in one whole the range of lenses can be used in a shooting.

CP 16 ra is a reflex camera i was working about three years with one of those and i never seen any adaptor to c mount , i have a cp to m42 2x extender adaptor and that was very difficult to find.

regards

Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Cinematographer

Athens Greece.

I've been using the JVC HD110 for awhile and love it. my latest ambition is to shoot some rising smoke but have the camera vertical to take advantage of hdv 16:9, like pictured below:

 

 

but now i found this in the manual (pg. 6):

 

"Use the unit in an upright position.

If placed on its side, heat release efficiency will deteriorate,

adversely affecting the tape transport. Depending on cir-

cumstances the tape may also be damaged"

 

so... what's a good way of doing this? it will be indoors but perhaps keep a fan blowing on it? ice pack? should it face "tape side" or "lcd side" up? anyone try this before with success?

Hi

I am an owner of a jvc hd 111,at my last project a feature film i had the camera vertical on awall for a scene at the side of the lcd

about two hours nothing happened.

a lot of times i put this camera vertica or upside down and nothig happened at all.even on the top of a car upside down.

BTW i thing that is a rule in this forum to use your real name or correct name.

Hello all. This is my first post although not my first time researching information about this camera. I was wondering if I would be better off with the aforementioned motor instead of the variable motor because I know with the Arriflex s/b , a constant speed is better because of issues of exposure, etc unless you are running a crystal synch...is the same true for the II C? Thanks in advance!

Hi Antony.

Running the camera with the variable speed motor at the end of ther there is some change at tthe frame speed so you have to make always a small correction. Running the constand is better in that way. That is something that always hapened to me running the variable speed motor. The better as you know is the crystal motor.

THANASIS DIAMANTOPOULOS

CINEMATOGRAPHER

ATHENS GREECE.

HI

I was wondering if anyone could help me decide on a 16mm camera to buy.

 

I have been using a bolex 16mm reflex for a while now, belonging to my university, I'm getting a bit bored of having to use a camera that's kept in such poor maintenence. My other problem with it is only being able to load 100ft at a time. Ideally i'm looking for something that can have a 400ft magazine added and something i could get converted to super16 without having to send it out of the country. I've been looking at the arri st, although i've read like the bolex this will be too loud for any sync sound, the packages seem to have the advantage of not being clockwork. What sort of price am i going to be looking at for a 16mm camera with 400ft magazine and good lenses? My budget at the moment is about £1500 (i'm in the UK), I've seen arri st packages for around £1195, though i have no idea if this is the right sort of price to be paying for them. If anyone has any suggestions i'd be most grateful.

thanks.

Hi

For that money you can try or an arri bl 16 or an eclair npr you can find alot on ebay they are also sync sound and have 400 ft mags. NPR can be converted to S 16 easyer that Bl For the both of them are very cheap lenses and accesories.

35mm DI 4K scan to 2K process = 10.000

35mm DI 2K scan to 2K process = 9.750

RGB cameras = 9.300 ? 9.600

Varicam 10 bit Cinema Log DI to 35mm = 9.100

F900R 10 bit Cinema Log DI to 35mm = 8.900

35mm DI 2K Telecine scan to 2K process = 8.600

Varicam tape Cinema Log DI to 35mm = 8.500

F900R tape Cinema Log DI to 35mm = 7.800

35mm old analogue way = 7.600

16mm DI 2K scan to 2K process = 5.250

16mm DI Telecine HD to HD process = 4.500

DV from DVX100 to 35mm = 2.700

16mm old analogue way to 35mm blow-up = 2.500

Digital beta to 35mm blow-up = 1.000

 

Ok the 8 bit tape is below the 35mm Telecine scan 2K DI and this is for DVCPROHD but if you noticed am referring to TELECINE SCAN meaning 8 frames per sec scanning with no over sampling like a Northlight scanner do.

 

Above is uncompressed 10bit full resolution on set capture which is much better than tape.

 

When I referring to the old analogue way I don?t try to downplay it but everyone knows that the generation?s losses of that workflow in addition to the lack of artistic capabilities of the old methods in contrast to a DI process can make a result inferior to film that was DI properly.

 

Also in the equation is added the argument that DI process always deliver better handling of the Colour Grading than just chemistry does (printer lights etc.).

 

The score is from subjective viewing and it includes the DI advantages so its not only numbers.

 

Finally is understood that since HD Cinema cameras are shooting natively to 1:1,85 all the test are with this type of film (3perf 1:1,85) NOT anamorphic because then everything goes better for Film.

 

But the question remains answered:

 

Has anyone, just one, used Varicam in the workflow described above?

 

Because your experience is probably based in bad examples also we have to understand that HD material is delicate and it has to be handled with great care as is happening for decades with Film.

 

Regards,

As for 16mm compared to DV you can read American cinematographer article something like five years ago that concludes to that result.

 

And someone 100 years ago when he was asked to leave horse towed carriage and ride an automobile he was refused so what?

 

Regards,

Did you apply this technique in Oikonomides film?

I have alot of remain spares from old packages if any one need something

9pin cable for bl 16

cp to m42 2x extender

1 cp magazine 400 ft

cp j4 variable speed unit

cp electrik zoom control

cp fluid zoom

filter holders for arri st mate box

crystal for bolex ebm

time sync genarator 550 george jensen

crystal sync control for arri bl 16

cannon zoom 25-100 f1,8 c mount

yvar 150 c mount

meopta 20 1,8 c mount

switar 25mm 1,4 c mount

yvar 16mm 2,8

arri 16 eyepiece

just trying to get rid of them contact for pics

fp.films@yahoo.gr

Thanks a lot for the advises. I did a test yestarday shooting with some hight contrast film for titles and i am waiting the process. I had used my arri 2 c with an old planar 50mm in 28-30 fps.

KARL the producer things that testing cameras and lenses and films is just to spend his money. :rolleyes:

Handcranking would be ideal but the producer things that this is very timeconsuming. And i have never done it before. I thing that i am going to use some old olanars made around 1937-38. I trying to get sime hight contrast film internegatife or that for titles and test it.

Thanks.

Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Cinematographer

Athens Greece.

I'm confused -- are you saying that you don't like how old lenses handle things like a white wedding dress but that you want to use old lenses?

Sorry for my bad English.

I want to create the look of the movies where done at the years 1905-1915. With all the problems for a past time scene in the movie that i am shooting. I need old lenses with all their problems to do that. The real problem is the camera that we are going to use for the movie is an arri bl4s pl mount. For this scene i can use my arri 2c . Thats the older camera we can get. The ideal was to get an old camera of those years but we couldn't find a desent one that works. I am trying to find out what tupe of lenses i can use.

Well, if you really want the old lenses look, then I think you have to stick with old lenses. So you have a few options - you can look for a different set of older or uncoated primes, you can work to more carefully flag off the ambient light hitting the lens, or you can control your frame thru your lighting, art design, and wardrobe. One of the old tricks was to dye white items something slightly off-white, like cream or very light gray, so that the cinematographer had an easier time giving the fabric a bit of texture without needing to blast too much light at everything else in turn.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice of the tricks . Do you know what lenses can i use i mean what old lenses uncoated are availiable for modern 35mm cameras or 2c arri standar?

Hi

At my new project there are some scenes that must looking like the old bw movies before the ww2 i can manage the flicker and the apochromatick look technicaly but the lenses those years where not coated like the newest. At the tests some taylor hobson and some zeisss sonnars and some sneider didn't look like those

Specialy in whites like mariage dresses the old lenses canot handle the white reflection at all as you know.

The point is that i am shooting with an arri 2c and i need to know what old lenses can i use to mount on the camera.

Thanks.

Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Cinematographer

Athens Greece.

You've either said a lot or nothing... I cant quite figure it all out - what has twixtor got to do with my query ?

 

Have I asked a clunker of a question that shows me to be a fool ?

Are you perhaps referencing some other discussion ?

 

... perhaps the kodak/super16 one ? ... where its asked why there isn't a super16mm camera with all the features many super8's had decades ago - and here I am asking why there is/isn't a 35mm with all the features of a Bolex ?

 

So eyemo's can be converted to reflex ?

Question (minus Bolex reference):

 

What 35mm cine cameras are known for there ease of modification and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? (and throw in handheld ability for sh!ts'n'giggles)

 

...they will probably be MOS - and hopefully they are relatively old and therefore relatively cheap

Hi

If you look around the forum you will find a lot of informations about 35 mm cameras in detail.

2c is a very fine camera depenting for the reason you are going to use it. You can purchase a package very cheap and find a lot of spare parts to upgrade the camera crystal motors, pl mounts, cheap lenses, bateries , not heavy at all and still serviced.

Konvas 35 mm are very fine cameras.

Eclair cameflex .

Bruce,

 

If you buy the camera for $2000, ship the camera round trip to Australia at quite a cost, and spend $2600 for the Super 16 conversion, you have already spent more than the $4679 that my Arriflex 16SR sold for. And what Super 16 lens are you going to find that will fit inside that lens blimp? Having a Super 16 Arriflex 16BL with no Super 16 lens is not doing you much good. Not to mention, where is Rebecca going to find a service techinician in the United States who will service one of your converted 16BL cameras, being as few techs will service the standard 16BL anymore.

 

$2000 is a substantial investment for a student. Why encourage Rebecca to invest in something that will not serve her longer term interests.

 

And for my friend Scott; Michael Chin, a very well respected documentary cinematographer, sold his Aaton LTR Super 16 package for $4800 last year. And I have shot a few loads of film with his camera, and the images are rock steady. You don't need pin registration for rock steady images. And the whisper quiet Aaton LTR makes the Arriflex 16BL sound like a meat grinder.

 

I have to agree with mister CARROLL even if i am a bl owner. 5000 usd even more with transport and taxis is alot of money for sending for convertion a camera to the other side o earth. Specialy an old bl camera. Also you can't get decent sound in a small room witch probably a student will use bl is noise a lot even wthi soft blimbs and blankets :D . I AM NOT AGAINST A STUDENT TO GET AND USE A BL 16 CAMERA but i am against comparing bl( and convertions) with ltr and sr cameras in the years of hight definition, when the prises are getting lower and lower.

 

PS Angenieux are soft lenses for me and you have to get a zeiss 10 100 . And Becky don't be so absolute that you don't need prime lenses, film cinematography means getting the full advandages of film resolution.

 

THANASIS DIAMANTOPOYLOS

CINEMATOGRAPHER

ATHENS GREECE.

HI REBECCA

I AM owner a bl s 16 no 24 camera. I thing is avery good camera for a student. But there are some things that you must be carefull. Bl needs prime blimb for extra lenses.NPR LTR SR ACL CP DONT. It isn't so quiet as the others specialy a non servised good. My best advise is to rend a bl for a day and play a little with the camera if you don't know about it. Is very heavy and not for handheld . S16 or 16 mm the pictures are greate from this camera. Using good glass. BL can mount arri stb and bayo lenses that they are easy to find and specialy old primes sonnars planars distagons. And ofcourse needs a good tripod head for havy cameras.BTW is an old camera probably you will shoot your student projects and then you have to keep it like a museum piece. :rolleyes:

sorry for my english.

ps. i just sold an eclair npr s 16 as an old camera and i might sell bl in the future but i am keeping it like a memory from the film days i prefer working sr ltr or xtr.

THANASIS DIAMANTOPOULOS

CINEMATOGRAPHER

ATHENS GREECE

Hi

I am wondering if there are other crystal sync motors or modifications for 2c cameras exept tobin or c.e.

We are departing March 15th, 2007 for a 45 documentary/educational shoot in Europe. We will also be shooting for stock libraries while over there, so 1080p (preferably 4:4:4) is a must.

 

We're looking at purchasing the Silicon Imaging SI-2K. However, it looks like it won't be available in time for our trip. The same goes for RED ONE. We would love either one. We don't want the 2K Mini because we will be doing a lot of Steadicam shooting and don't want a mess of cables (RJ-45, audio, USB, etc.) hanging from the camera. Plus, it gets too front heavy.

 

Anybody have some suggestions of cameras that will do TRUE 1080p (1920x1080 at 24p) in the < $20,000 price range? We currently have some Super 16 PL mount lenses, so the PL mount and single sensor would be best.

 

I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

Hi

you can try the kinors dc 2k and dc 4k pl mound, costs around your money.

I don't know about 50 Db.

 

The user manual of Kinor-16 camera wrote :

" noise - not more 42 Db".

The good serviced and adjusted camera can have less noise.

I can set additional noise protection cover inside of body of camera too.

You canuse additional outside sound blimp too.

I don't have special device for measuring of noise, thats' why don't can give you real volume.

The original 29EPSS motor of Kinor-16 camera have analog system of speed stabilization, this is not crystal sync or XTALL speed control.

The original electroncis have precision of speed control 2.5% and have Pilot-Signal generator for sound recoder with Pilot Signal speed control ( like NAGRA ).

If you need crystal sync speed motor, not problem, this is possible. The new version of motor electronics have microprocessor PID control ( not a simple XTALL control ) with high power output stage and many additional service function ( digital film counter, mirror disk parking, low speed test run, adjust of phase of speed, remote control and other ).

 

If you need high quality sync sound recoding at shooting area, i recommend use of Arri 16 SR3 or Arri 416 cameras. But, the good idea to compare of price of cameras too.

The one fiber screen of 416 have price near 1000 euros only.

Even 42 db is noisier than npr acl ,cp ,or even an old bl thats the right comparison and i was talking about camera noise. Even using a crystal sync motor you can not minimize the noise. I am not against the russian cameras i know how great images they create. I am looking now to purchaze a kinor 35h.

The russian 16 mm professional cine cameras

Kinor-16 SX-1M

Kinor-16 SX-2M

Kinor-16 R ( 4KSR )

Kinor-16-8R

16SP

2SR

RUS

Hi OLEX

Happy new year to you and to all

I have never used a kinor 16 sx-1m or 2m camera but i know that the sound that comes out of the camera it is over 50 db how synk sound is that? NPR ,CP,ACL,BL you can get origonal sound from the interiors and having a lot of problems specialy from old cameras like that . I know that kinors are crystal sync but for sync sound a camera must be blimbed.

Hi OLEX

Happy new year to you and to all

 

I have never used a kinor 16 sx-1m or 2m camera but i know that the sound that comes out of the camera it is over 50 db how synk sound is that? NPR ,CP,ACL,BL you can get origonal sound from the interiors and having a lot of problems specialy from old cameras like that . I know that kinors are crystal sync but for sync sound a camera must be blimbed. Correct me if i am wrong

Did you sell the camera yet Thanasi?

Hi mike happy new year

yes i have a deal.

By "S 16" do you mean the camera has been converted to Super 16?

 

-Alain

Yes the camera is converted to super 16

Would you absolutley not ship it to the US, even for an extra shipping fee? Extra shipping is cheaper for me than a flight to europe.

Hi Michael

I want the deal to be in europe for the reason that if someone want come and test the camera is easy for him or to sed it for test. And if the is any reason for returning the camera back it is easyer for me to return the money. USA CANADA and others are very far.

Hi,

 

If there is the availability for the video assist or not?

 

Regards,

NO

IT IS TIME TO GET RID MY S 16 ECLAIR SO

IAM SELLING THE PACKAGE

1) ECLAIR NPR S 16 BODY ARRI B MOUNT AND C MOUNT

2) ANGENIEUX VF

3) BEUALA CIPRI CRYSTAL MOTOR FOR 25 AND 24 FPS

4) ANGENIEUX 15-150 ARRI B MOUNT

5) TWO MAGAZINES

7) MATEBOX

I am the second owner of the camera never been a rendal camera. The camera comes in original case. It works perfect and the lense is like new. Prise 1500 euro and ships only in europe. For questions and pictures fp.films@yahoo.com

Unless you want to have anamorphic lens artifacts for the look, cropping the sides of a 3.36 image to get 2.35 won't give you any more quality than cropping the top & bottom of spherical Super-16 to get 2.35.

But i assume that croping s16 film and getting smaller exposed area on the frame loosing more quality blowing the negative to s16.

Thank for all the replays.

Sorry David but my English are not the best .Some times my wife translates the posts for me.

BTW. I thing that the best advise is to crop the sides of the frames. I have to start the tests.