Jim Hoene
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Posts posted by Jim Hoene
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I syncd a few hours of footage that was shot with a Canon Scoopic on betacam sp. It's really not that hard to sync up footage. Usually a camera will drift in the same direction each time during the same shoot. So if you find the camera is slightly faster than crystal sync, you will need to extend your audio if it drifts out before your take is done. It's really not that hard, assuming you have what I call "average ambience" between ambience your audio can actually be overlapped a frame or two to keep sync. Since you know the audio will move ahead of the film, don't start sync exactly on the clapboard, you should be able to start sync two additional frames in the opposite direction of sync, this actually doubles your syncing time before the audio gets noticeably out of sync. But you do have to watch the audio sync like a hawk and resync as soon as the picture gets out of sync noticeably.
I tend to like it when the camera is slightly slow versus slightly fast. I'd rather clip out a frame or two of audio ambience than overlap because every now and then the overlap is noticeable if the background audio is loud, although that is usuall a sign of a bad audio recording.
When you say "overlap", do you mean inserting some ambient sound? thanks
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I wouldn't bother these cameras seem to run so close to sync it isn't really worth the cost of having them sync'ed.
What are you intending to shoot that requires perfect sync?
Well I was told that I'd be ok for shots of 10-15 seconds but then I'll start getting some drift. I'm planning on a short documentary which will have some interviews which may have shots exceeding that length. I am very encouraged by your comments though. Thanks
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HI!
just remember that minidv or dvcam is offline quality. i do not recomend if youre thinking a broadcsat quality.
try, if you can, digi beta.
bye!
Treegan
Can anyone explain this a bit further? thanks
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Never mind, I found out it needs modifying.....end of line
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Im putting together equipment for making short films using the Super8 format (Canon 814's) and I have been considering what to record sound with. I'd like to keep my basic equipment (recorder, mic's and cords, booms etc) below $2,000.
I have been looking at the pmd660 which although it looks a little small appears to have many good features including XLR inputs, an optional wired remote with a peak indicator (I wonder does this mean you can adjust levels remotely or just monitor). I also like the flash media and ease of downloading to a computer and it is a solid state device with few moving parts.
Anyone have any experience with this or a suggestion for another unit?
Here's a little info on the pmd660:
? Records uncompressed 16-bit PCM .wav files at 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz.
? Records mono .mp3 files at 64 kbps
? Records stereo .mp3 files at 128 kbps
? Uses inexpensive, widely available Compact Flash media (CF)
? 1 GB CF card can hold over 1 hour of uncompressed stereo
? 1 GB CF card can hold over 17 hours (stereo) or 36 hours (mono) .mp3
? Operates for four hours on four AA batteries
? Two XLR mic connections with +48v phantom power
? Two built-in condenser mics for easy, true stereo recordings
? Stereo line I/O
? Solid State Design
? No moving parts-no maintenance
? "Copy Segment" cut-and-paste editing to a new sound file
? 99 "Virtual Tracks" for EDL-style editing
? Built-in USB port for easy file transfer
? Optional wired remote control with peak indicator
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Yup. On the behind the scenes, was weird seeing Rodriguez looking into the eyepiece of an Arri again.
Did they shoot this in 16mm?
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Is the 814XL-S already equipped with crystal sync or do they require a modification?
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Stick with Super 8 , get it telecined to DigiBeta if you can and cut on your home computer for video/internet release.
Digibeta or DV?
Stick with Super 8 , get it telecined to DigiBeta if you can and cut on your home computer for video/internet release.Digibeta or DV?
I mean MiniDV
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You sort of answered your own question. Many film formats involve cropping part of the entire negative ("full aperture") either by projector masks or cropping in post and converting to another format.
Even the 1.37 Academy format is a cropped version of the 1.33 Full Aperture (Silent) format since the Academy projector mask hides the soundtrack stripe area plus a little off the top & bottom, otherwise you'd end up with a 1.20 : 1 aspect ratio if you only masked the soundtrack (which is what early sound-on-film movies used, called the Movietone Aperture -- Academy Aperture wasn't introduced until four to five years after sound movies came out.) So the 1.37 Academy format was masked even further when the 1.66 to 1.85 "matted widescreen" formats came out in the 1950's. And yes, your camera framelines would show you the area to be masked by the projector. Now some people might also use a camera hard matte or add a black matte in post for the print in order to minimize misframing by the projectionist.
Whew! I was worried I would have a tough time getting to a matted widescreen format. I guess the main trouble for me as a Super8 user is the degradation of the image after being blown up as Dominic mentioned.
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If you shoot super 8 as normal, and have it blown up to 35mm (Academy frame), then you can have the result projected in a regular 35mm projector at 1:1.85 widescreen ratio. The projector mask will crop the top and bottom of the image in just the same way that it does with conventional 35mm prints made from 35mm negatives - so you will obviously need to frame your original images to the correct ratio to start with.
(note that framing for a particular aspect ratio is a different thing from what you actually expose onto the camera original)
The 8mm frame is actually about 5.3mm x 4mm (that's 1:1.33 ratio). Cropped to widescreen, you'll be using 5.3mm x 2.85mm. The 35mm print would be 21mm x 11.3mm - about 4 times as big each way, so that's a sizeable blow-up ratio.
Hi and thanks.
Are Hollywood productions usually shot in "Academy Frame" or 1.37:1 and simply masked during projection? If so, then I guess the viewfinder of the camera must indicate the area that will be visible during projection so you can frame the shot correctly.
How is " framing for a particular aspect ratio is a different thing from what you actually expose onto the camera original" Thanks again you all are really helping me cut through this.
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Almost every 35mm theater in the U.S. is set up to show either 1.85 matted (aka "flat") widescreen or 2.40 anamorphic (aka "scope") widescreen prints. I'd say about half (or more) the movies that come from Hollywood are in scope prints, but less for indie and foreign movies.
For special projects, like an art film, you could blow a 4x3 image up to 35mm in a windowbox so that when projected in 1.85, there are visible black borders on the sides to retain the 4x3 (1.33) shape. And some theaters can close the curtains over the black side borders to hide them. Old 1.37 Academy movies are sometimes re-released to first-run theaters this way, reduced to "1.37 inside 1.85" prints, rather than in 1.37 Academy prints.
that sounds like a reverse letter-box job. I want to get a widescreen image for projection from my original print which will be in 4x3. I guess what I was trying to say was that I want my films to be viewed in the aspect ratio that one would expect at the theatre. thanks!
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Yeah, what they said. Lap dissolves are the only things really missing from the 814, and the slightly longer zoom. The C8 Wide Angle adapter works on both if you need to go really wide. Standard tripods for shooting at this level for me are things like Bogen 3211 sticks and 501 or 503 heads are nice, simple and light but fairly smooth.
Personally, I have an almost perfect 814 and a running 1014 with glass that's going bad. Something wrong with the lens on the 1014. I need to send it off to Bernie or a lens person, or both. Then again I got it at a good price for a camera with a south-bound lens.
I think the 814s will be just fine for you. Again, if you don't subscribe, get Super 8 Today. Great info on shooting Super 8 in these more modern video times.
Happy shooting. If you need info I can help with feel free to e-mail direct.
Thanks to all who responded!
Sean(at)DeepBlueEdit.com
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What is the aspect ratio that is used for projection in most US theatres... 1.85:1 or 2.39:1?
I would like to film in super 8 and produce films to be projected in whatever is customary for feature films. Besides trying to use Super Duper 8 or Max8 is this viable? In other words can I get reasonable results by blowing up and cropping and is this easily (relative terms) done? Thanks
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The 1014 has a lap dissolve function which the 814 does not. I think that's the only difference other than the lens.
Yeah, and I've heard that lap dissolves can be done in post. Does that usually work out ok?
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Owning several Canons now I can say that the 814 XLS, 814 Auto Zoom and the 1014 XLS all can use standard tripods.
Lots of folks are buying Sony MiniDisc recorders, MP3 Recorders and the new lines of memory card recorders like the Zoom H4 (google that one, it's cool). Others are using DAT and portable DAT recorders while others are actually using other MiniDV camcorders to grab 48KHz clean audio. All are viable.
You will hear quite a bit about Crystal Sync and the option to add it to the 814 and 1014 series as well as many others. This device will lock the cameras frame rate to a particular audio recorder like the professional but aging Nagra or the Sony version (often called a SNAGRA) audio recorder.
Honestly, anything that can record sound works BUT - when it comes time to sync that separate audio track to a different frame rate video track, that's where the issues of drifting audio and lip sync get tricky. Unless the dialog is more like a monologue, it really isn't all that hard to sync the audio back up for a short piece. If you want to do a 2 hour epic, get a DAT and a Crystal Sync unit.
Negative films have a greater latitude but need a positive print made before you can show it directly. If you want to edit it in an NLE (any NLE works) you will need the footage transfered to tape to digitize into your NLE. It needs laid to tape with the correct "pulldown" taking the 24 full frame film footage and making it 30i digital video. You can have it laid to tape as negative and flip it in your NLE, or better, have it flipped when it is initially laid to tape by whoever is putting it on tape for you.
OR, you can use films that are reversal films meaning they are positives immediately after processing. They are easier to turn around to a viewable film but they are more picky about exposure.
I love my 814 AZ and my 814 XLS. You can do neat stuff with them. Look for Super8 Today magazine. It is inexpensive and chock full of good stuff for Super 8 folks.
Happy shooting.
Sean McHenry
Thanks that is good info, What do you think of the 814XL-S versus the 1014XL-s, I know it has the 10x zoom but what other neat stuff can they do that a 814 can't?
I want to shoot independant films of a feature length so it sounds to me that I need the crystal sync feature and a DAT. However, isn't DAT kind of being phased out? What do you think about something like the Marantz PMD 660 which I guess is a memory card format recorder. I have seen the Zoom H4 and it looks kind of small for what I think I want to do although very cool.
I asked about the 814 versus the 1014 because I want to shoot with 2 cameras or have a backup/second unit camera and the 814's could save 500 or 600 bucks over a couple of 1014's. You also mentioned standard tripods, what is an example and what do they cost approximately. Thanks again!
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I think any standard tripod will work. I have the 814e and it works on all my 35mm tripods.
For sound I am using Sony's MZ RH1 HiMD minidisc and mics that I made using electret mics. Minidiscs are fairly cheap. I paid $325 for this one and the 1GB optical media disc can be had for $5-$7.
Editing software is the expensive part. Sony now has professional rated software but it costs an arm and leg;
Sound Forge Editing s/w is about $275, and Sony Vegas +DVD starts at $575 unless you are a student and can prove it.
Of course, there are many other softwares available, especially if you are using a Mac.
I can't help you on choosing film stock. Suggest you go to Kodak.com and poke around.
Is that the Autozoom Electronic? That is an interesting camera. How do you find it?
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Negative is designed for digital transfer, or printing... and you don't lose the film look. Like David said, anything you see on TV that was shot on film goes through this process. Reversal is meant for direct projection of the camera original. You can have reversal transferred to digital, but you pick up contrast... and won't see into the highlights and shadows like negative film.
First thanks to all. What is reversal used for? Also, and this may be off topic but can Super8 be cropped into a 1.85:1? If so are there any rules for framing your shots to make the best of it? Thanks again.
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What camera(s) do you have?
Right now a Bell & Howell 1222 soundstar but then I'm considering a Canon 814Xl-S
If your using Canon 814 (other post) then any film available will expose fine. If your projecting and splicing, use reversal. If your getting a pro transfer and editing in NLE, use negative.Are you talking about transfering by telecine to a digital media for editing purpose when you suggest using negative? Which method of editing is best? Do you lose some of that film look when transfering to digital?
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I want to film with a Canon 814XL-S.
? What tripod fits this?
? What should I use to record sound?
? How should I edit the film and soundtrack?
? Which is the best film stock for color and for b&w?
? I will be using natural light most of the time and then minimal lighting otherwise.
? I would like to have both music and regular sound (dialogue, ambient noise)
Thanks for your ideas!
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Well I went to Kodak's site and found these films available for Super8:
Ektachrome 64T
Kodak Vision2 500T color negative film 7218
Kodak Vision2 200T color negative film 7217
and for b&w:
Plus-X Reversal Film 7265
Tri-X Reversal Film 7266
Can these be used in any Super 8?
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How Can I look up which film is right for my camera?
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Thanks guys!
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No no, of course not, I was just trying to bulk out the data on that camera (since there wasn't a lot when I arrived) every Super 8 has 18fps, so I added that, I know now that Super 8 Sound Cameras are equipped with 24fps so I have since added that.
Happy shooting. :D
Very good-thanks!
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Most sound cameras have a 24 frame per second option, but the cost savings of offering 18 frames per second were also a consideration, plus the camera will run quieter at 18 frames per second versus 24 frames per second.
Some Elmo and Chinon cameras and I guess this Bell & Howell camera only have an 18 frames per second option. I've seen older cameras have a tiny speed selector switch located under the underside of the camera, it's not too common but you might want to check to see if there is a filming speed adjustment on your camera. Hopefully, besides 18 frames per second you have single frame capability as well.
I don't mind shooting at 18 frames per second and you get an additional 50 seconds of shooting per cartridge.
Yeah, someone posted a thread about a Yashica xl20 (or 20xl) that was a sound camera with only 18fps. I dont have access to the camera right now to check for a speed selector. I just cant believe that a company like Bell & Howell would produce a sound camera presumably in the mid-to-late 70's with only 18fps. I know Bell & Howell is not considered one of the great camera makers in the Super8 gauge but even my dad's old "Two-twenty" circa 1953 had at least 9 and 18fps. Your point about the quietness of the camera at 18fps v. 24fps makes sense, particularly for a low end sound camera which probably has a built-in mic or one of those little "boom" mikes.
Still, isn't 18fps below the "flicker threshold"?
Super 8 to MiniDV
in Super-8
Posted
It should except I'm a complete novice. It sounds like your usage of "offline" means less than optimal. Is this some industry term? thanks for your patience!