Marty Hamrick

To have full effect of pin-registration you need both the camera and the projector movement with pin-registration.

 

The equipment shown belongs in the DIY class of equipment which may be fine for some people but not for a serious lab.

I used to work for a lab that had one,but for the most part they used a custom built converted Mitchell camera.Have you seen the j/k fitted with a digi camera?

Gee, Alex, try opening your Canon 814 xls for a simple lube job or to repair/replace something some time.

 

It becomes immediately obvious that the only reason a repair manual was ever made was for warranty coverage -- and then only as a maybe. They were not made to be serviced like properly engineered cameras are. Especially motion picture cameras which, by their kinetic nature, require periodic servicing with all the moving parts. Simple lubrication of machinery, if nothing else. These cameras are designed as throw-away items. Even at the highest level. The only engineering consideration was easy mass assembly. Even the most technically advanced cars on the planet today have simple plugs and holes for oil changes and cooling system refills and whatnot. Computers are built for easy disassembly. On and on and on... Meanwhile, home miniDV camcorders follow the Japanese super 8 home movie camera philosophy and are not designed for repair. Warranty problem? A new one is shipped out from the factory as a replacement.

I hear what you're saying,Santo and I'm not disagreeing with you.In a perfect world,a Leicina or Beaulieu would be the way to go.Just as in a perfect world,if shooting 16mm or S16,an Arri SR or Aaton XTR would be the way to go.If I was being hired to shoot a music video or piece of insert footage for a feature,I would rent a Beaulieu as I would be being paid enough for that.

Yet I have shot some darn good footage in my day with a very inexpensive Bolex,Canon Scoopic,Beaulieu R-16,Kodak Cine Special or K-100 or Pathe.I have also shot some really nice super 8 footage on a Canon 1014E.They served the projects I worked on well.

The bottom line on this Elmo thing is if I get a half a dozen decent shoots with it and good images,I will have gotten much more than my 35 bucks worth the camera cost me and the time and effort I put into making the minor repairs.Worse case scenario,it will end up in the display case I plan to build that will house all of the other defunct cameras I have collected over the years(most of which are fully functional) that serve as my home mini A/V museum.

What does that mean?

 

Marty, what about the ideas I presented to you elsewhere?

I will be looking into those if my friend is not successful with his repairs.

I've worked beside those guys a couple of times at the Jaguar games in Jacksonville and I admire how passionate they are about what they do.One of them commented on how long he had followed a particular player's career in college to learn his running styles so he would know where to position himself.I suppose if you wanted to place bets on certain games,knowing one of these guys would be of value.And yes,I have never seen Arri mags turned around that fast.I've seen some older cameras with these guys too,I saw an Arri M out there a few times.

It's time to face reality. K25rip is right.

 

A damaged prism?

 

Okay, what is that going to take to fix in some super 8 camera from the late 70's?

 

It will require buying another Elmo 1012 xls that works. And if you're determined to make your original 1012 work by stripping that one and getting involved in some super complex surgery -- one that no japanaconsumer camera was ever intended for, then go ahead. Welcome to a nightmare!

I wouldn't bother with it except for the fact that I have a friend who has offered to do just that.Cannibalise another Elmo (which he says he's doing from another model,but the eyepiece/VF assembly is identical)and fix the problem.I'll let you know how it worked out when I get it back.

In a perfect world,I would shoot with one of the cameras you mentioned,however this one came my way very cheaply.It IS useable in it's present state,I would just have to figure out where the Fstops are on the dial.I've made lesser cameras in other formats shoot great film with worse maladies.Ever heard of the Sony drop?

I am one of the people behind super-duper 8 and I think there is much to be gained. Some viewers of our feature Sleep Always have described it as some of the best super 8 they have seen and the wider image area gets a lot of the credit. It's not perfect, as has been discussed at length in many places (and I am the first sto admit there are issues), but well worth it nevertheless in my opiion. Max 8 is not just a similar idea - they are doing it "right" - recentering the optics etc. But you have to contend with their prices.

 

You can crop any image to any aspect ratio in post but you are just masking. If you expose more film emulsion to begin with then there is more information to work with - and more to be gained.

I've seen some clips from "Sleep Always" and they do look great.I commend you on that project.I've worked on some 16mm projects where the equipment I was given was a,I guess I'll say,"after market" super 16 conversions.It was a crap shoot as to whether you got one that didn't end up with a reshoot or an expensive post production fix.Such problems would be magnified in super 8.

my opinion, use the camera as a bookend and look for a fully working model.

In a perfect world I would agree with you.However when you're talking about no budget experimental projects,you don't have the budget to make that feasible.My Elmo is in great shpae except for this minor flaw.I did find someone on the filmshooting site that has offered to fix it no charge.It involves cannibalising another camera.Whatever works.

Here we have the age old problem of putting the rectangle in wider rectangle.As I understand super 8 has a few options.Widening the gate such as what is done with 16mm to super 16,what is called Super Duper 8 (gay ass sounding name but whatever),and Pro 8mm's Max 8(better name similar idea).Or you could just shoot as is and crop for 9 x 16 when you shoot.Then there's anamorphic,which intrigues me,but I'm sure this could open up a can of worms too.

Not too hip on carving into the gates od super 8 cameras.Not much there to carve into and I don't see much difference on what is gained.

The exposure window in the VF that shows F stops. on my Elmo 1012 XLS has a broken microprism so I thought about marking the manual exposure dial to the appropriate stop.I've thought of several methods of doing this.One is to light a grey card to F 5.6,locking the auto iris on it,and mark the dial accordingly,eyeballing the iris changes through the film gate.Anyone else have any suggestions?

There was the Bolex Pro that was designed for sync work.It had a coaxial magazine very similar to an Arri 35 BL and it was crystal sync and could also do sound on film like an Auricon.There weren't too many of them made,but I've seen a few of them on ebay.

My Elmo 1012 XLS has two significant problems.The trigger doesn't work.It runs fine when the master switch is on,but the trigger doesn't work.I've had some suggestions here of turning it over on it's side,which hasn't worked.I can live with this problem though as I can always use a remote control to shut it off.The Problem I'm having is with the iris readout in the viewfinder.I had one of my engineers at the TV station I work for open it up and he showed me where there was a damaged prism that was responsible for reflecting the f stop numbers up to the VF window.

My chances for finding an inexpensive fix for this don't look good,so I'm just looking for options here.The camera is functional and the auto iris seems to work fine.I can go manual but I have no way to tell what f stop I'm shooting.Now I thought about locking the auto itis on a grey card,but that would only work right with film stocks that auto keyed the light meter via cart nothches.Limits me pretty much to K 40 (no longer made) and E160(also defunct).Anyone have any other suggestions?

Cropping is different from widening the gate. The better tradeoff without losing much of the resolution is the use of anamorphic lens - no glass to etch, no gate to file, no lens to align.

What kind of aspect ratio would you get there and how much of the image would have to be letterboxed to get on the screen?I like the idea but who does an unsqueezed transfer in super 8?Or 16mm for that matter?

Hey all!

Is the 25f mode any similar to 25p?

I don't think it is.24 (or 25)P is progressive isn't it?I don't think it's the same thing.

How good of an idea is it to shoot letterbox on Super-8?

If you're shooting for 9 x 16 format HDTV,how else would you go?

f. I don't know which 16mm cameras can ramp and control shutter angle automatically. I'm assuming you know that the camera has to have this ability?

 

Patrick

I'm assuming the shutter angle control is to adjust for the change in exposure which accompanies speed changes?You could do the same thing by changing the iris setting as you ramp up or down,but that would alter the DoF.

I did a shot like this years ago with a Beaulieu R16.It was a ramp down from 24 fps to 2 fps and back to 24.Did it manually turning the meter knob on the side of the camera at the same time as adjusting the fps rate.It worked,DoF wasn't an issue on that as the shot was with a super wide lens.

I have a Canon Scoopic and an Elmo 1012 SXL.I was pondering etching the vf glass for 9 x 16 framelines.Anyone ever try this?Just wondering if that's an easy thing to get into.

Thanks for your reply Marty - but I'm still a bit unclear - does the socket on the side of the camera emmit an electrical pulse - or is it a mechanical socket with the electrical pulse being generated by the pilot tone device?

 

thanks

 

Scot

The socket on the side is just a coupling for a sync pulse generator which you will need.I've seen them on ebay for next to nothing.

Does anyone know what the level coming out of the sych pulse socket on the side of the R16 is - what I mean is - do you need the pilottone converter to make it a safe or useable level to plug it into an audio recording device - or can you just plug it straight into a recording device as is?

 

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OK,this is going back a few years.The socket on the side runs a synchro pilot generator.The generator puts out a 60 cycle pulse.If memory serves,there is a female BNC jack,the cable plugs in there and the other end is a multi pin that plugs into your deck.I've used it with a Nagra 3 and a Uher 4000 and as I recall sync would hold for a good minute or so before it would drift about 1 or 2 frames.

Try having a small child and another on the way.

I'll see your small child,only my youngest isn't so small anymore and a teenager with a baby.This is where support at home is crucial,sucks when you're trying to juggle that solo and still work.

Congratulations again Mitch!Best wishes to you and your new family in the New Year. :D

I love the ArriS,it's my favorite MOS 16mm camera.I have a friend with one that's sitting dormant.I've been trying to talk him out of selling it unless he gives me a deal on it first.I understand it can be coverted to super 16 and PL mounts.Does anyone have any experience with this?

(Bottom line: If she insists you give up your "silly dream" and get a "real" job, you could end up hating both her and yourself.)

This is quite true.Been there,done that.Never again.Having said that I can also say how beneficial it is to have mate the DOES support what you do.In my case I ended up with one that has more business and financial brains that I do.My profits have increased more than 200% in the last two years.Oftentimes artists suck at business.I'll admit it.

Definitely 16mm. Super-8 could work if you could print the timecode along the edge (Super 8 actually has optical sound capability too).

I remember seeing some super 8 prints with optical tracks,though I only know of two projectors that were able to play optical super 8 sound,the Elmo ST 1200 M/O model and I think Technicolor had an endless loop cart model.

I think also Fujica was experimenting with an SOF single 8 camera design that recorded optical sound but I don't think they got too far with it.

I'm not sure if there would be a big demand for it,but on some of the 8mm forums on other sites,there is definitely an interest in super 8 projection prints made from negative.So much of an interest a couple of labs in Europe offer it.Perhaps a module can be installed on a camera that would burn a timecode on the edge of the original film as it's being shot which could be used for later film conforming with film matchback programs,as is done in larger formats.

DTS normally has the audio data recorded on optical disk media. The timecode used for syncronization is printed on the print.

 

Their latest model loads the data from the disks into a server than can hold the sound for dozens of movies.

And you say this exists for small formats?I heard that it existed in 16mm,but does it exist in super 8?

DTS Digital Sound has been used with small format films. Timecode is optically printed on the edge of the print.

Does the DTS sound get recorded on a mag stripe or a CD synced with time code?

I actually have an original sound stripper with manual, cement and heaps of audio film strip to turn normal super8 film, 8mm or 16mm silent film into sound film, so you can record a soundtrack afterwards using a normal sound-on-sound projector. PM me for details. Cheers

If ever there was a need for a stripe on S8 film as I see it,would be more of a way to put some kind of corresponding time code to specific frame.This could be done optically as well.That way a person could conform super 8 original and make super 8 print from original negative.There is a growing interest in that,again.Widescreen Centre in the UK now offers super 8 prints from super 8 negatives.From what I've read the results have been impressive.