Sam Kim

I shot my first feature a year after graduation -- for no pay -- with a fellow student. But it was in 35mm (deferred deal on everything including lab work, a rare situation). A year later, I shot a 35mm straight-to-video thriller. But by the time I left film school, I had well over a dozen 16mm short films to my credit, and one 35mm short film, so I had plenty of material for a reel.

ah, your advantage. i have 2-3 finishing school (16mm) and 2-3 on video so a lot less for my reel. i've heard people recommend grad school because it's a good arena to be able to go and work on a lot of films, get pracitcal hands on pracitce and build a reel. also, you get an mfa and have the option for teaching left open later. would anyone recommend it? i'm not ready for grad school but it's still something i want to consider maybe 5 years down the road, but even then i feel like maybe it just gets in the way of just being poor man dp.

"Becoming a DP" is a lifestyle. "Being a DP" is a lifestyle as well. The two are somewhat different. I personally found the best route to becoming a DP to include the following:

 

:: extremely low overhead/running cost - this means low rent & low cost of life

 

:: persistance & perseverence - this means that even when the times are grim you must keep doing it

 

:: blind faith - beleive in yourself and know that if you do whatever you possibly can to achieve your goals, you will have no regrets at the end of the road - because there was nothing else you could have done...

George,

This, sir, is some great motivational advice.

I will drop the whole owning equipment idea. My friend who graduated last semester is dropping $20k on a JVC HD100U and the rest in lights. Another guy I worked with in school is starting his own production company and going in on a RED camera with 2 others. I think it's imperssive but is this the only way to do it?

For those of you who are a TV DP how did you get there?

"November", it won the Cinematography Award at Sundance three years ago.

where would you find these titles you've mentioned?

But after shooting non-union indie features for eight or more years (and only making $20,000/year or so), I started doing these lower-budget union studio features and frankly, I don't want to slip back despite all the low-budget indie features I get offered regularly, unless the project is really great or I know the people involved. It's hard to (now) be middle-aged and live off of $20,000/year when doing union features (and now TV work) has meant making at least three or four times that.

 

An occasional commercial job would be nice to fill in the gaps of income and time, but I haven't been able to crack that market yet.

Realistically, can I expect less than $20K for a while then if I want to start off doing indie work? I personally don't mind, I know I'll manage somehow.

I assume you started shooting for non-union indie features for eight years after grad school? How do you break into doing TV and feature work? That's the direction I want to go towards at least. I know it's always more about the people you know so should I just be working from the ground up and busting my ass off doing grunt work until I feel like I have enough knowledge and enough contacts? Oh my oh my.

Do people really expect you to have your own equipment? In the SF Bay Area most listings off of low budget craigslist shoots all say "must have own equpiment". But maybe this is just a craigslist conincidence.

My girlfriend and I have been talking about this for the past few days. I wish there was an easy answer for her and me but there just isn't.

I know there's no one way of getting to becoming a great DP but I was wondering why you guys chose the path you did? Like, why the indie route? Or, why did you choose to just work on music videos and commercials? I love features, so why did you guys choose features?

How long does it take before you get work that can pay the bills? Millions of questions!

If you want to be a DP why not just start off as a DP instead of starting from the bottom in LA and risk getting sidetracked into another position?

I know there's no easy answer to any of this but I have to ask.

Never tried it, but if you can get a live image to read on FCP's waveform, then theoretically yes.

Uh, when you want to make the image brighter or darker? :P Not sure what you're asking...

-_- me neither necessarily. here's how I do it in film. after setting up my lights the way i want, making sure i have the ratio i want, i take a reading and get my f/stop. i'll adjust the lens for that and shoot with that for the scene. i guess what i'm asking, is it the same for digital. thinking about it now for the umptienth i don't see why not. -_-

anyway. when shooting digital is it better to shoot at a higher f stop? i'm wondering if i shoot lower on the dynamic curve of digtial i'll get more noise and pixelation. from what i tried, crushing blacks in digital is definitely not the same process as reversal. tips?

Setting the actual camera aperture of course is a different matter.

I'm new to digital and I've used my light meter a whole bunch for film but digital is a different beast. At this time, I don't have a waveform monitor. Two questions:

1) Can I use a waveform with a laptop, final cut pro and my camera firewired in while shooting?

2) I guess I'm confusing myself by making digital overly hard. When would one change the f/stop?

I would add that by "lighting" I include not lighting, just using available light and practicals as sometimes being the ideal situation.

 

I do it mostly by eye and just meter the key. If you had to go back and recreate the lighting, especially for efx work, then taking more readings would be good.

 

I usually only meter fill when working in very dark settings like a moonlight effect where I really wanted to place the shadow detail at a consistent but "barely there" level. Or when working in extreme backlight where the fill is the "key" on the face really.

This was something I was just recently thinking about. Digital is new to me, i've learned all film, and since digital you can manipulate the iris, the aperture, and what feels like a bizillion of things I was wondering how things are kept consistent especially since it's WYSIWYG.

From what David wrote it seems like that the way to keep it consistent is either to Light it, Meter it and keep markings of those, OR just doing it by eye because it's a DP's dream to make it all consistent all the time. right? That's what I'm understanding.

To add my question, when using digital you have to white balance (this is new to me), how often would you do that? How often do you want to change your F stop? Changing your f-stop changes your latitude doesn't it? I think i'm over thinking it and confusing myself. Can someone help clarify this?

I'm pretty surprised by your position. The value of that auction package at 395 dollars is very fair. It comes with a nice camera case, several filters, a cartridge of film, and a Sankyo projector! The point being that if you were to purchase the package, and it worked well for you, and then you resold it in six months, what do you think you could resell it for? You could probably instantly sell it for 300 bucks without blinking.

 

So are you sort of complaining because you can't afford a 100 dollar investment in a camera package that actually comes with a case to insure the camera has been taken care of? The point is the actual cost is of no relevance since resale should net you 75% of the value.

 

The real concern is does the camera actually work and will it work reliably for you since shipping everything both ways could end up costing you 50 bucks.

You're RIGHT! I live locally from them. Bay Area, CA. Anyway, good logic and yeah. I'm trying to contact him and see if i can get to test it out.

Can you tell me how you can tell if SUPER8 has rolled out? I bought a roll for my GoodWill camera and it stopped. The cartridge no longer seems like it engages or anything but I really can't tell.

Many old Super-8 in-camera light meters don't work anymore (or use obsolete batteries), so you might also look for a deal on a light meter. I used to use a Sekonic L-398, which you can find on eBay for well under $100.

 

It sounds like you're confusing latitude with dynamic range - not an uncommon misconception. There's a good Wikipedia article that highlights the difference between the two terms (note the last article under "References," too). Reversal film does have considerably less dynamic range and latitude than negative film. Most commercially available Super-8 stocks are reversal, but there are some great stocks available from companies like Pro8mm that are adapted from larger format negative stocks.

 

Hope that helps!

Thanks Troy,

I guess your write. I know that there's a difference and I after reading that simple wiki description it clicked.

So, for negative 16mm I've always been taught and calculated, for the latitude, that i could go + or - three stops, depending on your f-stop. as far as reversal I was taught + or - 2. My digital can do that much at least.

I have a very good light meter. it's a Sekonic and it's one of the newer ones. I've used it for 16mm a lot and now i'm learning to use it for digial and for hopefully super8.

So I might strongly consider buying that R10 then. It comes witha projector, custom case, and filters. Seems like a decent deal.

Does David Mullen see himself as an artist?

just figure out what you want film school. listen to all the above posts. they're smart and they know what they're talking about. i'm in film school right now and i'm grauating. was it great? it was good. I'm happy from what i got out of it but what i really want to do now is study art (like what one of the posters put) and be able to draw from that. the masters of photography and painting had it right. they did something that people hundreds of years later are still staring at. i want to be a cinematographer, but i've never really had an art background. i'm playing catch up now to build up the artistic side but you can only do it buy studying it and doing it. if you want to know more about San francisco state universities film program PM me and we can talk. but listen to what people are saying. they have a HUGE HUGE HUGE point.

Sounds like a lot of freedom!

If you "feel" the project and it's interesting then go for it!

That simple?

Wow...that was pretty bad. Nevermind the editing, the inconsistency between shots and cutaways is horrible, and that warm source that's counteracting against the daylight is pretty terrible and horribly flat.

 

I would have my actors play more to the natural lighting as their key, and perhaps lower the contrast by just adding some simple daylight balanced fill for closeups and such.

 

Avoid that terribly warm look that just doesn't work for the environment...ugh!

finally... someone who's just as grossed out as me!

yah sf

ACTION STAGED ON COUCHES AGAINST WALLS ARE DEADLY!

thanks for all the professional insight.

i'm really trying to get the director to move the couch and consider an art director or production designer. from the things i've seen so far it'll only hurt him not to.

i'm waiting to discuss with the director what kind of look and feel he is going for. he has yet to really communicate anything with me. he knows the characters but being his first film he has no idea what he's really supposed to be doing. he wanted me to story board everything for him. no no no, i told him if he is the dp he needs a certain vision and that i would be there to help him achieve it. i think he still wants me to design everything. is that what real DPs do?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true

where do you find your best deals for good, working cameras? so far i've picked up my first super8 at the goodwill. i shot a test roll of whatever. it stops winding the film but is there a way to tell that the roll has rolled out?

i then bought a kodak instamatic and after putting fresh batteries and running it for 5 seconds it went *boing* and stopped working. i'm assuming the spring got loose and bricked the rest. booh. so what now? where? how much?

$400 for an R10? is it even worth it? I want it to practice my cinematography.

and the last question:

are all the lenses a fixed aperture? neither of my two had options to change aperture. so i'm just supposed to shoot 3 stops over the 1.8 lens? nothing brighter than a 4-5.6 split when calculating with my light meter?

one more question... super8 films latitude? if it's reversal is the latitude only 4 stops? not 7-10 like negative?

I am very curious to know how you DPs work with directors. After reading the script what's your next step? Do you create story boards with them? Do you scout locations? Do you take what the director wants you to do and create just that?

I ask because I'm 90% sure I'm taking on a project. He's asking me to storyboard and figure everything out on my own. I'm excited to work on this, I like the script, but I feel like he's asking me for my interpretation of the script and to shoot off that. I feel like I'm crossing over into directing territory though.

What do you guys think?

I watched the clip. The only thing I'd like to say is that cinematography is only one of many elements that can make a film good or bad. I think that holds true with the clip you uploaded as well.

 

AJB

agreed agreed. and i'm meeting more with the director later this week to discuss things.

negative fill huh? i'll try that see what we get. thanks for the feedback. i don't want to fill everything i just want to accent certain areas more and probably the faces. or do the reverse and have the bg slightly brighter i'll take my 5in1 flexfill and play around with it with i go there again. i will have some lights at my disposal. nothing bigger than a 1K though.

i'm thinking the lighting the room isn't my issue.. it's just how the other dp lit the actors.... okay... i can do this... i can do this... pep talk time.

Do you need to light it? The natural light looks pretty nice!

yes and no... i have yet to be able to describe it. i'm thinking it just might be the decor. can i get you guys to look at something?

a film clip... wait for it to load it's 30MB

the DP before me got fired because he was slacker. so they looked for someone new and got me. this is what he shot.

i look at it and i cringe. besides the editing being terrible i strongly dislike almost everything about this clip. it almost makes me laugh. argh. i'm struggling with this because i know that I shouldn't judge what i'm going to shoot based on this and watching this almost hurts me, but i keep looking at the room thinking, more light. it's a little too softly lit for my taste.

Sorry... I know this isn't the post I started but on the similar topic:

Hey Mr Michael Nash,

I was hoping I could get your suggestion.

This room (attached) is where most of the short I'm DP'ing will be shot. It has HUGE windows with venetian blinds. I was wondering if you have any suggestions for lighting actors in a room like this. The blinds will be drawn some times and closed others. I usually like light on walls and everything to help separate the actor from the room but I wanted some input. Anything you can give would be appreciated.

I think the tree annoys me but the director LOVES it. -_-

I really really really appreciate the feedback!

i actually did use a lot of ambient light. i used one clamp light as my key light in every shot except for the last shot with the foreground sleeping guy and background guy framed by the door. i wanted to do as naturalistic looking as possible, however i feel that maybe it looks too home video'ish? what do you think? how do you make it less home video like?

digital's latitude always bothered me. i know david mullen wants a film stock similar to digital (less latitude, higher contrast) but not for me. on my light meter the bathroom was only three stops over from the rest of the area but that's enough to blow out on a GL1. as for the bedroom, the lamp i didn't mind being extra hot but i see how it is sort of unsettling. And i agree with the contrast. I should have paid attention to that one. i will next time. i guess that's what happens when you rush and you're a one man crew.

TV light was an actual TV. I tested it and saw that it gave off just enough light of it's own when i switched to a certain channel so i flipped back and forth from that.

With digital (i've only ever really shot on film) if I brought everything up with lights but kept everything at the same ratios, would that decrease the pixelation? the clip i placed on the web is very close to what it looks like when importing onto my computer.

thanks again mr michael nash.

The lighting looked very naturalistic. If you hadn't told me I might have believed it was ambient light (well, most of it, at least) ;)

...

As for the pixelation (trailing and such), most of that is an accumulation of compression between the camera and your editing. There are too many variables to discuss all at once, and it's more of a post issue anyway.

I'm sort of new to digital. I've used film cameras and studio lights to light but digital and small work ligths are new to me. What could I have done better?

http://web.mac.com/samkim/iWeb/exercise/practice.html

how do you get rid of the digital pixelation?

get a light meter. learn how to use it. ask tons of questions here and then do it.

In all cases, these were internships done via schools - not being a student will probably shut down any chance you have.

what school are you guys affiliated with? mfa program?

The trailer I found to be quite interesting. Who was your cinematographer? Give them some kudos from me. I thought the choice of color was nice. what did you guys shoot on?

for me, the acting seems pretty good. he only had a few lines hear and there in the trailer so you can't get a feel for the whole acting directing ability but it looks pretty good. the shots (whether chosen by your or your DP) were good in my opinion. some were powerful and very telling of this mans life. looks like some good hard work went into the production.

Thanks for the replys. Unfortunately while I would have access to an optical printer there isnt anyone at my university who teaches its use, but I am going to try and find out who knows the most. Are there any particular books or resources that I could look up to learn more about the use of an optical printer?

if it is a JK105 or JK03 they should have a manual you can get. My school has them tethered with the machine or you can contact the vendor. THe lower end optical printers you usually find in universities are the JK's and they're very easy to use. Maybe a 20min learning curve but I learned it by myself. Just read the manual cover to cover, go slow and test it out.

Thanks so much for the replies. Can anyone recommend a good light meter? I was going to go for the sekonic l-358 (for £100 on ebay) as it is the cheapest one I can find that works in fps. Are there better ones out there for this kind of money?

 

Thanks, Jon

that'll do if all you want is an incident. if you're taking the used ebay route you might want to save a few more pounds and get a 508 or 558. they have spots built into them.