Neil Randall

If you do not know the history of the camera it is always safe to do a head cleaning before shooting. They do have a head cleaning cassette for that purpose. In your case I would doubt that you would need to clean again during a 4 day shoot.(It can be hard on the heads if over doen) Als the SDX has a built in headcleanind wheel that engages briefly during tape threading and I believe various intervals during recording.It eventually need to be replaced as well.

Cheers, mate.

From my audio-engineering days, it was always necessary to clean the tape heads with isoprop once a day but the hire co. has told me it'll be done before it goes out and that we should only need a lens and body cloth.

The built-in cleaner sounds like it's replaced the need for every-day cleaning. Gues we'll leave it alone!

Thanks again,

NR.

We're six days from production now and I thought it prudent to ask about maintenance. We're shooting for four-and-a-half days, aiming to capture two hours of footage for a fifteen-minute film.

How often should we clean the heads (assuming the SDX comes to us clean)? Based on my audio engineering background, before use every day, but I'm not so sure with cams.

Either way, do I need the cassette or can I use the classic isopropynol/earbuds combo?

Any other care tips, send them this way too.

Thanks,

NR.

DV 50 firewire data i/o on PC/Windows is currently only recognized by Avid & Canopus Edius. There are 3rd party DV50 codec for the PC, I recall it's from Main Concept. It's expensive, around $400 and I don't think Premiere Pro will see the DV50 firewire data even if that DV50 codec is installed on the PC. That codec is intended for non-capturing (graphics, compositing...) I suspect the workflow for Premiere 2 is to capture DV50 via SDI, then export it out to MainConcept's DV50 codec. This will save the expensive HD consumption. From there, virtually all Windows native apps will read/write it fine.

 

Yes, there's a "richness" loss when shooting in 25 mbs on the SDX900. Somehow it's similar to DVCAM. This will save you the headache of post if budget constraint is present. Nevertheless, it's still pretty good over DVCAM for certain scene thanks to the cam's CineGamma & DSP. It'll have a less video look and wider latitude.

I've tried Avid DV Xpress 3.5 but found it impossibly hard to use compared to Vegas or even Premiere.

I've also found a third-party codec that allows Premiere and Vegas to process DVCPRO50 and HD files natively and in real-time. It's called Raylight. Think I'll investigate that.

Thanks again,

NR.

Avid Xpress or Canopus Edius will let you do this natively in Firewire DVCPRO 50, AVI format.

 

Adobe is misleading their claim to capture DVCPRO 50. Yes, but via SDI and expensive disk space consumption. W/ SDI, you can pretty capture anything (DigiBeta, DV50, D9, D1, etc..) So it defeats the space-efficient firewire workflow.

Ta. I replied in the other thread.

Getting to the main issue:

 

Thanks for your reply, mate.

 

First off, the AJ-SD93 deck only comes with Firewire and analog composite output when buying it bare. If you want component, SDI, & RS-422 deck control, you have to pay about $3K more to get all of the options.

Make sure the deck you're getting has the add-on cards. Don't waste your time capturing composite video. You'll regret seing how bad it's in post.

 

The hire deck has FW and SDI. However, the rental MD knows I'm o/p via FW and just said I could only capture at 25 MB/S. As for composite - it's only one step above RF, so I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot bargepole!

 

To capture the full fidelity of 4:2:2/8-bit DVCPRO 50 w/ out native support for Firewire, you have to do it via SDI. A Decklink SD card is probably the cheapest route to do this. It has free codec and doesn't require hardware on the editing computer. It's Mac/PC dual format. A desktop is required to capture.

 

I had a butcher's for a Decklink card and the cheapest one 250 notes. That's about 475 bucks and we simply don't have the budget.

 

My suggestion is to capture SDI on a Decklink card as an AVI on Windows. Probably do it at the highest setting, no need to do uncompressed. I shot a lot of tests in the past and couldn't discern the difference between uncompressed and DV50's 3.33 to 1 compression tape out. After all capturing are done (hopefully via RS422 so that you have TC info on the clip), you simply peform an export out to regular DV25 MS DV AVI. There you can edit on any system. When you're done w/ all the edit, go back and replace the SDI captured clip with the MS DV AVI lower res clip. This will give you the best quality.

 

Okay, this makes sense, but given the Decklink not being an option, is there no way to o/p over FW to windows? You'll have to forgive me if I'm being dense and missing the obvious path, here.

 

To be even more precise, when you export the clip fr. the raw SDI capture, you may have to update the time code value on the exported clip. The NLE app (Premiere Pro 2) will reset it back to 00:00:00.

>>Why? I've got an external hard drive with FW connections. What's so special about a Mac compared to a PC? Are you just referring to datarate (PRO50 over MiniDV?) or hardware?<<

 

I was hardcore PC/Windows and viewed the Mac as "rich man's tool". Struggled w/ Windows XP/Premiere Pro reliability and overall support. Tired of the nasty crashes and internet viruses. PC laptop is no better. When I got the Panasonic SDX900 & Varicam, it forced me to migrate to the Mac because of native high-end codec support, efficient workflow, and mobility. The Mac Book Pro 17" (Core 1 & Core 2) has proven that for the past 14 months. The $3.5 K investment paid off on just one project. In retrospect, the extra $1K spent on the Mac laptop over PC is to avoid the downtime and be creative. I can edit full online DVCPRO HD via the Firewire 800 or Express34-> Sata w/ out the need to make proxy files. Being a Cam Op/DP, I don't like to be confined in an area. I'm always on the road. Shooting footage on the P2 (HVX200, SPX800 (DV50), and the upcoming HPX2000 2/3" HD cam, I need immediate preview & can start editing ASAP. My work is 90% broadcast and need very fast turn around time. It's quite a new way of working. After using Final Cut Studio (FCP, Motion, Live Type, & Shake), I'd say it's pretty impressive. This is from a guy migrating from from the Adobe Production Bundle Suite (Premiere, After Effects, Encore, etc.) The only draw back is that you have to be willing to spend a good 3-8 months learning and mastering the apps. At this time, I'd not want to move back to the PC! On a side note, Adobe is smart and they're porting Premiere 3 to the Intel Mac this summer. So my time spent w/ Adobe video software is not at all wasted. It just give me more options to choose.

 

I don't disagree with any of the above but you must appreciate that you're clearly a pro while we're students/day-jobbers. $3.5K is about £3.5K - believe me - and the cost isn't justified for low-end shorts production. If I had cash, I'd be in post under the watchful eye of an experienced editor. Instead, Ive got to do it at home on a laptop. There's a vast gulf between out two worlds :-)

 

Overall, I suspect the SDX is not really the right tool for us in terms of post, but for the shoot, it's the dog's. Perhaps the rental house will hire out a Decklink card or similar.

 

Thanks again for your help, mate.

No models of the SDX-900 have firewire. It's not an option.

 

The only outputs available on the camera are composite video out and, if equipped with the optional SDI card, SDI.

 

J

I'm hoping to capture DVCPRO50 footage shot on a SDX900 to a Win XP PC, via an SD93 VTR. Does anyone know what file format the footage will appear in Win as? I've asked in my other thread but no-one's replied.

Thanks.

I'd reconsider your plan to capture DV50 recorded footage if you don't use Canopus Edius, Avid Express (PC/Windows) on your laptop. Plus, it's going to be pretty hard to capture uncompressed AVI on a laptop. For Mac, it's easy and virtually painless. Powerbook and MacBook Pro laptops handle DV50 flawlessly.

Having just reread your comments, I see it's the software you refer to first . My previous post may not have been plain, so to clarify, are you saying Sony Vegas on a PC is incompatible with DVCPRO50 footage sent over FW? I assumed the data spat out by the SD93 would be captured by Vegas as a Windows-native uncompressed format, say AVI. I want to shoot as high quality as possible (50) but not at the expense of trapping the footage on the tapes forever, cos my NLE is incompatible.

It's a luxury just to have the SDX and post is not an option, so given my setup, what would you do?

Thanks in advance, gov.

I have the AJ-SD93 and use it every other day. In the 1394a i/o mode - which is a bit for bit data transfer, I'm certain that you CANNOT change the output bit rate if it's recorded in 50 mbs. In otherwords, if it's recorded in DV50, you are forced to use the 1394@DV 50 mode. If DV25 is desired, then use the AJ-SD93 SDI output (optional card) and to out to another DV25 deck that has SDI i/o (I use the Sony DSR-2000 DVCAM w/ SDI & Firewire i/o). SDI will transcode any format (D1, DigiBeta, DV50, D-9, etc). Either record to tape or do a realtime capture back to Firewire. This will let you edit in all NLE apps. Make sure to run a separate TC out on the SD93 and set the TC on the record deck to ext TC to preserve the original TC. This is very important otherwise you'll have to edit everything all over again if there's ever a need to use the DV50 for filmout.

 

Ok, this all makes sense. However, something tells me we'll be lucky if anyone outside the crew sees this flick.

 

I'd reconsider your plan to capture DV50 recorded footage if you don't use Canopus Edius, Avid Express (PC/Windows) on your laptop. Plus, it's going to be pretty hard to capture uncompressed AVI on a laptop. For Mac, it's easy and virtually painless. Powerbook and MacBook Pro laptops handle DV50 flawlessly.

 

Why? I've got an external hard drive with FW connections. What's so special about a Mac compared to a PC? Are you just referring to datarate (PRO50 over MiniDV?) or hardware?

 

Despite the HDX900 & Varicam as the preferred cams in 2007, the venerable 2004 SDX900 w/ a high quality premium broadcast HD lens still look pretty darn good

 

We're lucky we're even shooting DVCPRO. It would have been DVCAM, originally. At our end of the 'industry', we'll shoot with whatever lens is supplied. And it ain't no prime!

 

Thanks for your comments - I learn something every day. :)

Welcome to filmmaking ;)

Cheers! Now to find out if I have talent or not...

Did Panasonic recently license Sony Vegas for the native DVCPRO 50 codec over firewire? Last time I check, only 3-4 vendors (Canopus Edius, Avid (PC), and of course - Final Cut Pro for Mac).

 

If not, you'll have to capture via SDI and can edit on any NLE app?

 

For color saturation, I usually select the factory default color mastrix A or B. B is the more saturated one and I think it's too strong for scenes that contain red objects. It's too artificial looking to my liking.

I'm not sure, but there's been no mention of compatibility problems from the rental house. The geezer there is lending us an AJ-SD93 to whizz it over to my laptop via FW. He mentioned it'll only support DVCPRO25 but suggested we shoot PRO50 anyway, in case we ever get to o/p to film. All I need is an uncompressed AVI for editing - too much to ask?

I'll have a butcher's at the Matrix A file, too. Thanks for the heads-up, mate,

NR.

...so even if they're not included, the rental house should have them, I suppose.

Got a polariser, set of NDs, ND Grads, and Promists. 12 filters, £7 each per day. About $13. Soon adds up on a student budget!

Filters are typically rental items...

...so even if they're not included, the rental house should have them, I suppose.

I didn't say colored grads, I said ND grads. Helpful for darkening a bright part of a frame in a static shot, like hot sky or ground, etc.

 

You won't find any diffusion filters subtle enough in the Cokin line, so you might as well not use anything.

 

Besides, if you're renting the SDX900, why aren't you renting a mattebox and filters? Why do you have to buy the filters?

Bloody hell, you did didn't you? I'll find out about ND grads. And avoid cokins. What's the deal with Hoya?

It does come with a mattebox, but there's been no mention of filters. That said, being new to this renting malarkey, it could be filters are an unspoken extra, hence there being no mention of them. But I had to hire the batteries, charger and AC unit separately, so I just assumed we'd provide our own 'consumables' - stock, filters, lens cloth, cleaning casette, etc.

Don't forget - this is rip-off Britain we're talking about!

Ta,

NR.

There's no law saying that you have to soften video; it may only be a good idea for close-ups of women basically, and even then, if you want, turning down the edge enhancement /Detail may be a better idea for those shots. But if you are planning on shooting close-ups of women, particularly older women, it wouldn't hurt to carry something.

 

Most glass filters come in strengths and the lightest grades are pretty subtle. For example, a 1/2 Black Diffusion-FX is one of the most subtle filters you'll ever use. Or a 1/4 Classic Soft, 1/2 Soft-FX, 1/8 Black ProMist, etc.

 

But I'd say that a Pola is really important for day exterior work to reduce glare. The camera comes with its own internal ND filters. Hopefully that wheel is separate from the color-correction wheel.

 

ND grad filters are a good idea, but you generally need a bigger mattebox for those if you want flexibility in moving the grad line around. If you're in higher elevations, maybe a UV or Skylight, although all glass filters have some degree of UV blocking. If you're using the Pola, I wouldn't necessarily stack a UV with it unless really necessary.

Thanks again Dave. We've got CUs of a woman, but of a 21-year-old with pretty-much flawless skin.

Polariser - yep, that makes sense. Don't think we'll need a colour grad.

I'll research detail and edge-enhancement and maybe look at a 1/8 Black Promist. But at a hundred notes a pop, something tells me we'll be using Cokins not Tiffens!

Cheers, mate,

NR.

Ok, so after all my questions, we got a sweet deal from the hire company (albeit 120 miles away).

Some people have recommended using a Tiffen Promist Black 1/4 to take the 'video' edge off the footage. Having glanced at the literature for the filter, I think it looks like a soft-focus filter and noticeably so.

Again, I'd rather leave the footage neutral/flat then soften in post.

We're shooting in June with int/ext locartions, all natural. We'll have redheads, blondes, 330w unknowns and (if we're lucky) a Fresnel. There will be tungsten and flourescent on the sets. There's no water, but grass, glass, wood and carpet, so a variety of reflective qualities.

Anybody like to recommend what we should have in our kit (UV, ND, Pola, Skylight) ? Any advice is gratefully received.

Thanks again,

NR.

I'd been working overnights and was still adjusted for those hours. Now I'm on a morning project and suffering for it...

Nasty. But think of it this way: you're getting paid to do what you love. I have to sub-edit inane local news for a paper. Although, there's always time for research in between stories... B)

No, I wouldn't consider the Scoptung setting to be over the top, but it's pretty easy to dial in that look and tweak it if you know how to use the settings.

 

Not sure if you've considered it or have the budget for it, but the HDX900 is a really fine 720p camera that is very similar to the SDX. The additional resolution is worthwile.

I've got the manual and have passed it to our cam op/DoP so I'll probably start to get suggestions back soon. The scene's a place to start, though.

Yeah, I've seen the HDX but price precludes us from even looking at it. It's a month's salary just to get the SDX for a week! Not seen any rental houses in the UK with HDX anyway. It's a big enough pain in the arse having to travel 3 hours to north London just to get the SDX. Additionally, as I'll be editing at home, I'm conscious of and exponential rise in file size and processing power required to edit HD. Even if we did shoot that way, I'd probably end up down-rezzing it, as SD is still ubiquitous over here.

Thanks very, very much to everyone who's replied. I can't tell you how nice it is to get the opinion of experienced shooters, some of whom are at the other end of the spectrum to our rural, UK one-man-one-woman unit.

Michael, of course, you're right - it's 25p over here. I'll stick to 'I' for v. res. Also, I understand there's no 'capture-all' setting but was referring more to a 'neutral' setting (much like audio) where one would record a flat, balanced signal that allows the gretest latitude in post, ergo; I would opt for the Panasonic SCOPTUNG scene in order to capture as much detail as possible, leaving things like contrast, crushed blacks, grain until post.

Chad, I will research your suggested topics. Additionally, do you consider the 'flat' Panasonic scenes - specifically the SCOPTUNG - to be 'over-the-top'? As for Velvia, well it's very nice stock but I wonder if may be too rich a place to start for obtaining footage with the greatest flexibility in post? Now, if I was shooting a rom-com... :)

David, I'm glad you recommend the Panny. It's all I needed to hear from a Hollywood DoP from the ASC! When I mentioned HD, I was referring to the Sony F series (how to blow your week's budget on a half-day rental). HDV, as I understand it, is unworthy of being touched by ten-foot barge pole. It's supposedly nigh-on incompatible with most NLEs and weighs in at a lower bit-rate than MiniDV. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I'll try to source the films you mention.

Mitch, I'll send you an email. Thanks. There's a post round here for NTSC-to-PAL conversion for scene files.

Thanks again, guys. Keep those suggestions coming. I'm sure to be back as and when the cam arrives.

NR

Well almost. Interlaced capture appplies the shutterspeed to each field, but progressive scan applies that shutterspeed to the whole frame. 60 samples of 1/2000 second starts to look pretty different from 24 samples of 1/2000 sec.

 

This is one reason I said a 45 degree shutter looks pretty pronounced on a film camera at 24fps. That "frozen" motion is held on screen for a longer amount of time, making motion more noticeably strobed. At 60i there's less time between frames, so you can have more fluid-looking motion at faster shutterspeeds.

 

MTF is modulation transfer function, in short a measure of the contrast and resolution of a lens under certain conditions. I just meant the image started to get soft and murky-looking in a uniquely "optical" way.

Thanks for the info guys. I get you on MTF - I'd heard of it, but only seen it in graph form. Understand the softness concept.

I've got a Panny GS-500 camcorder with switchable shutter speeds, so I'll muck about with it to see what gives. I think the 'Movie Mode' switches to progressive.

Thanks again.

NR

hi

these questions can be discussed with your operator, unless you don't have one?

your operator will do the reserch and testing needed to give you the look you need.

 

my opinion, if you want video to look like film take the best dop you can.

good luck

 

anyway the sdx 900 is a good choice so far :)

We've got a DoP and cam op but I've learned to be as informed as possible before I shoot - I've written the screenplay, am casting, location recce, composer, catering, the bloody lot! This is so I'm aware of everything going on, not to mention so I'm learning, too.

Also, no-one's getting paid, so the more I can glean in pre-production, the better.

Feel free to lecture me - you're all a damn-sight more experienced!

As for the SDX: no matter what I look at for our budget, it remains the best choice. Varicam/Digibeta's too expensive, HD is unnecessary and costly, the DSR-570 doesn't do prog, and film is another world - for now. :D

Ok, going to be shooting a short with a SDX in June. First time with the camera (directing) so I'd like to be sure the cam is set to the most appropriate settings for our project. It's a chiller, no vis-FX, CGI or greenscreen. We're a tiny limited company and budget really is beer money, 80% of it going on 4 days cam hire.

The format is 24p, DVCPro50, to be edited in Sony Vegas at home. I expect to use Filmlike 1 and the Portrait scene to ensure I get everything upfront, then spend time in post to achieve the look I want. Are there PAL versions of the scene files available to download?

The output will be DVD but it will depend on people TVs as to whether they support progress or interlaced signals. To this end, I'm not sure if I should set Vertical Resolution to P or I.

Are there any other factors I should consider regarding the set-up of the cam? We're all student level but are undertaking the shoot in as professional a manner as possible. Naturally, I'd like the end product to appear as if shot on film and hopefully it'll help us fund a feature-length S16mm shoot.

I appreciate any suggestions,

NR.

Correct.

 

With video, what you-see-is-what-you-get. Try out different shutterspeeds and see what you like.

 

In my experience a 90 degree shutter (1/100) is enough to look "different" but not extreme. A 45 degree shutter (1/250 or so) is pretty pronounced. Any more than that and you start to lose quite a bit of light, and it really only pays off with very fast-moving action.

 

I recently shot a story about a tennis player and decided to use a fast shutter to add a dramatic touch to otherwise mundane footage. I found that 1/500 gave really cool strobing on the racquet swings, and at the long end of the lens and wide open it dropped the MTF on that lens a bit. The soft optical quality with the hyper-crisp motion looked kinda surreal...

Ta. I think I'll try out 90 or 45 and see what sticks.

As for MTF, that goes a bit beyond my technical expertise. I'm a bit of a jack but no master - oh, and new to direction.

Pasadena? You're up late/early, mate. :)

It is -- shutterspeed is shutterspeed. The shutterspeed per frame from a 180 degree film camera shutter at 24fps is 1/48 second. A 90 degree shutter is 1/2 that, or 1/96 second. 45 degrees = 1/192 second. The math is straightforward.

 

With video the selectable shutterspeeds are often in steps that don't perfectly match those produced by film shutterangles, so you might round off to 1/100 or 1/200 for the above examples. If you need to be more precise, you can use the Clearscan (Synchroscan) to dial in a precise shutterspeed.

 

Post manipulation cannot replicate the look of a short shutterspeed. A moving subject captured at 1/200 second shutterspeed has very little motion blur per frame. In post you can sometimes add motion blur, but you can't take it away.

Thanks for that. I just followed your maths example and now I understand - I think! For 24p, the shutter angle (as represented as a division of 360 deg) equates to the number of times to multiply the FPS speed (24, in this case) expressed in fractions of a second.

So, if my logic is clear, at 24 FPS, a 120-deg angle would equate to 1/72 of a sec?

I'm sure I've seen the formulae - they're obviously a lot more succinct.

The panny has a 1/250 setting. Have you used this speed? I'm looking for a near-strobing but not stop-frame look.

Thanks again,

NR

Obscura Films Ltd.

Hi,

Got a short and coming up wanted to achieve a low-shutter-angle look for a small murder scene, something between 15 and 45 degrees.

Can anyone illuminate me to the methods for achieving this, please? I'm having trouble understanding the relationship between shutter speed and FPS. We'll be shooting 24p and I'm not convinced shutter speed is digitally-synonymous with the shutter angle on a film camera.

I'm also open to suggestions for affecting it in post.

Thanks,

NR

Obscura Films Ltd.