Kenn Christenson

Camera Package Sold 10/8/08

SALE PENDING

There will probably be people who disagree with me, but I'd recommend one of the newer generation HD cameras over the HVX. The HVX DOES make nice images, but the resolution is barely above the look of uprezzed SD video. I've been shooting with the HVX and it's BIG brother the HPX-500 for over a year now - 2 years on the HVX, so I've had a little experience with them.

As has been mentioned - the EX1 looks like an excellent camera - I'd buy one myself, if it wasn't for the Scarlet coming out next year - maybe. I'll be renting until then.

You can see pictures of the package here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19429

Downsizing my business.

Package includes:

Red One Camera SN-1146 Release Build 16

Red Basic Production Pack (The cast aluminum Red Handle base was replaced by Red with a machined aluminum base which arrived with some wear, but is stronger than the cast base.)

Red EVF & Red Arm

Element Technica EVF Mount

RedFlash (CF) Module

4x Red Brick Batteries

1x Red Power Pack

2x 12" Steel Rods

1x additional Top Mount

1x Red-Drive

2x 8GB Compact Flash cards

All cables for EVF, Charger and Red Drive are included.

Pelican 1620 (Tan) Case w/Pelican 1625 Padded Divider Set are also included.

Camera was used on 3x 1 day shoots and a single 3 day shoot. Camera is in pristine condition and I have many of the original shipping boxes.

I'm not looking for premiums, just decent offers. I'm asking: $26,500 U.S.D. or best offer, for the entire package. Sorry, no sales outside the U.S. Please email me with your offer kennfilms (at) embarqmail (dot) com.

P.S. - I've already tried to contact the manufacturer for info - no reply, as of yet.

Anyone have any experience with the Broncolor 1200W HMI? Yes, I know it was designed for print work - but it is extremely light-weight vs what I've been using (Desisti mag ballasts.)

The head is a little noisy - even in the "low noise" (non-flicker-free) mode. Anyone have any ideas how to make the unit a little more quiet.

I've already used the unit on one shoot. It was about 20 ft from the talent we were recording and we couldn't hear the head noise. Just a little concerned in more tight quarters.

Try the poster paint from a local craft store - they are usually highly saturated, and as long as you can, basically, leave the backdrop alone, once it's painted - it should hold up fine.

There would be no "pulldown" in the case of 25P. All you'd do in final cut is set up a sequence to 25fps and field dominance to "none" and you should be ready to start cutting.

And, FYI Panasonic refers specifically to the format 1080i24PA in their operating manual and camera's operational menu. Therefore, referring to it in any other manner might lead to confusion to those new to the camera and its operation.

No, it is you who clearly don't understand the meaning of the terms. "1080i 24P/A" is an inherent contradiction. So is "1080i 25P".

 

What you mean is . Having both "i" and "p" in the same specification is the contradiction. Usually we don't even bother with the "/Sf" part, and write "1080p24" or "1080p25" on purchase orders. Those are the terms I use in the Standard Requirements documents that I issue to our Associate Producers and DP's. (1080i is only used for network delivery dubs.)

 

Ordinarily I wouldn't stomp so hard on this kind of misinformation, but there are a lot of students and beginners who read this board. If anybody made that mistake on their first job here, certainly their competence would be widely questioned.

 

I've been in this business for 34 years, and doing post production technology on major network prime time episodic TV for the last 22 years. I was in the room about 12 years ago when Larry Thorpe from Sony proposed and explained the segmented frame idea to the chief engineers of most of the big post houses here in Hollywood.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Clearly, you don't know what we're talking about with all this "Sony" stuff. Panasonic DOES NOT use the Sony method on encoding 24P into a 1080i stream and if you used the terminology"1080p24/Sf" or "1080p25/Sf" you would truly confuse the post production people trying to work with the footage you shot with a PANASONIC CAMERA. I resent being talked down to by someone who clearly doesn't know a thing about how Panasonic's DVCProHD cameras produce their high def footage.

Could you please explain how the removal of the pull down exactly happens. (editing on final cut pro).

A friend claims that this process will cause a loss of resolution and you'll find yourself with a resolution equivalent to 700p. !!!

so how does the removal of the pull down work ?

and what if i need to shoot some slow motion shots, (using the 720p), will it be possible to edit with 1080 and 720 ? will the difference be that clear ?

 

thanks for all .

Peace

There is probably more misinformation about the HVX than probably any other camera. I'm guessing your friend has never really shot or edited anything from the HVX?

Final Cut can recognize the flagged progressive frames in the advanced pulldown 1080i stream, created by the HVX - doing, essentially, a reverse pulldown and creating your progressive footage in 23.976 (in my case.) There is NO LOSS of resolution in the reverse pulldown process.

I think your best bet is to rent or borrow an HVX to shoot and edit a little test and see for yourself if there is any loss in resolution.

I have mixed 720P footage with 1080. There is a subtle difference between the two (as one would expect)- at least in the resolution I am working with the footage. Again, you really need to test these things. Everything you'll hear on these forums is subjective - what works for one person might be unacceptable to another.

No, wrong. And if you ever do business with a professional post production facility, that misuse of the term 1080i will cause confusion and probably cost you money.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

If I went to a post house and they didn't understand what is meant by "1080i 24P/A" or "1080i 25P" (which was mentioned in the beginning of this thread, I'd seriously look for another house. ;)

I've done a lot of post work with footage from the HVX and, now the HPX, and I have to tell you, 1080i is used all the time in the settings of the software I use - even when I'm editing progressively acquired footage. The software needs to know if the footage is interlaced so it can remove the pulldown properly.

If it's 1080i, then it's softened to not flicker on an interlaced display, by a factor usually about 0.65. If it's 1080pSf, then it's not softened at all, the full resolution progressive image is merely stored as if it were interlaced. That's the critical distinction.

 

1080i is a little worse than 720p. 1080pSf is way better than 720p, and looks exactly the same as plain 1080p. Segmented frame is a technique that made it practical to record 1080p images using the existing tape transports of ten years ago. It's in such common use that people often just say 1080p even when it may at times exist in the "segmented" form.

 

The real important thing here is to never say 1080i when it's not resolution limited for interlaced display.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

If you're going to be TECHNICALLY correct it IS 1080i - even if you're shooting 108024P/A - the video will still be interlaced and it IS important to know this if you're going to extract the progressive frames form the interlaced video stream. And since the original thread was about a film out, shooting 1080/60i is probably the last format you'd want to shoot in - hence no mention of it in any of my posts.

Why not just shoot in 24p 720 P/N and you won't have any pulldown and get roughly twice the footage on one card with no degradation.

Again - there NO DEGRADATION to the progressive frames encoded in the 1080i stream. If you're going to do a film out, you want the sharpest image you can get and that is by shooting in 1080 24P/A PERIOD!

Thank you all for your replies.

though it seems we will have to take this discussion further concerning the 1080i or 720p.

what i do not get is the fact that the camera shoots progressive images in an interlace mode !!!!

does that mean that we will get an image of 540 lines at the end (or an image of 1080 doubling the lines of one trim) if that's true it does not indicate more information in the image , does it ?

 

as for the settings i do agree that the best way is to transfer some test footage, though i was counting on some previous experiences concerning the black levels and noise....

i will let you know about our test results. (actually i am now thinking about testing two different settings)

 

as for the labs, we will have to choose between "SwissEffect" in Switzerland and "Micros" in France. (giving us good rate). anyone heard about them ? I have seen a Lebanese feature film shot with the DVX100 and transferred to 35. the French DOP used a pedestal of +7 and the result with the grain issue was amazing . apparently most of the noise was delt with at the lab. counting on that i think. will have to wait for our test.

 

I would love to get some more posts concerning the 1080i/25p and 720p/25p ....

 

thanks again ,

loving your support

Peace

Bassem

The Camera DOES NOT shoot progressive images in interlaced mode. (I would disregard the person who said that it does.) The images ARE PROGRESSIVE (the CCDs are PROGRESSIVE scan CCDs.) In 24P or 24P/A they are just added to an interlaced stream with either 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown. The pulldown can be removed in editing and compositing software.

With 720p, each frame consists of 720 lines, scanned from the same place in the frame. With 1080i, you get 540 lines scanned from the odd numbered positions down the screen, 1,3,5, etc, followed by another 540 lines scanned from the even positions in between, 2,4,6, etc. To prevent small area flicker in interlace, the picture has to be softened just a little. So, you get just very slightly less resolution with interlace. 1080i is about equivalent to 700p, not 720p. Progressive is much easier to deal with in any kind of post processes, effects, etc.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Actually... The HVX scans the CCDs progressively, to begin with. The camera then makes the interlaced images from the progressive scan. If you are shooting 1080i/24P/A for instance, you are going to get true 24 frame progressive images - once you've done reverse pulldown in the editing or compositing application of your choice (no "softening" going on, here.) And... those progressive images contain 20% more resolution than images shot 720P. Check DVXUser.com for further info on the HVX.

Hey all .

 

I am a director/DOP working on an independent production using the HVX200 PAL and transferring to 35mm film.

 

I am new in this digital to film process and would like to ask for some tips.

 

first of all, we will have to choose between 1080i/25p and 720p/25p. all the research we've done left us more confused. my opinion is to go for the 720p though my director disagrees. so , any tips regarding this issue ?

 

 

2nd,

knowing the limits of the HVX200 I will opt for the following settings:

 

- lower the detail and vertical detail level to the max in order to avoid video harsh look.

- set the pedestal level to almost +7 trying to gain a stop in the low zones. I understand that noise level will increase dramatically but will be counting on D.I to overcome that .

- chroma level of +2

- cinelike Matrix

- knee , MID

- Gamma HD NORM

- and the vertical detail freq. set to thin !

 

will count on a Zebra setting of 80% to determine exposure knowing that the camera sensitivity is around 400 ASA . will avoid over exposures of more than one stop, and underexposures of minus three stops .

 

Am I thinking right ? any help is appreciated .

 

thank you in advance ,

Peace

Bassem Fayad

I would definitely stick with 1080i/25P - You'll be gaining about 20% more resolution that way - a must for film out. As for the other settings, the only way to be truly sure is to do an initial film out - testing the various parameters. Just my opinion, but I think turning the detail enhancement all the way off may make your image too soft - again, if film out is your goal, better to test and be sure.

I am finding out little by little that you are correct, unfortunate for me. I just wish there was a fix or a method for getting 35mm DOF with an adaptor or a different lens without going soft on my image. One of the other main reasons (due to the fact that I can not afford a better lens) I am looking to eliminate any breathing that the Fuji 17x (CAC) lens is giving, which is better if I pay high thousands for a real lens. I just don't have that kind of dough. I appreciate your reply, you are truly knowlegable and a wealth of good information. Muchas Gracias!!! aka: Thanks!

 

 

BTW, My friend has the equipment I need to accomplish my needs but he won't lend or rent out his stuff. Not even help. Has over 400k in video equip. & toys and NO WORK go fig... But he can afford all that cause he has a PhD --- also known as PAPA HAS DOUGH. Not PhD as in the Academic Degree

Hey, It's not the money, it's the talent. I used to know the first trombone player for the Dallas Symphony. At the time I was just beginning to learn to play my Uncle's old, used trombone. One night he came over, picked up my trombone and just made it SING!!!

Forget the money - money CANNOT buy you talent. Go make your friend jealous and MAKE YOUR MOVIE. Find a way to make more depth of field an advantage - trust me, I 'd rather have more depth of field and have my subject in focus, than super shallow D.O.F and miss the subject's focus by an inch or two (it's happened to me.) :angry:

Thanks for your reply Kenn, VERY HELPFUL indeed.

 

The reason as to why I was looking to go with a lens adaptor is due to the fact that the HPX 500 with the Fuji 17x lens provides the comparable effect of a 16mm camera. I really am looking to get 35mm results. I read on another post by Mr. David Mullin who I wish would provide me additional advice as I think he is nothing short of a legendary genuis, read books and articles with the guy in them, he is the best. His quote is below, I wish he could elborate on this sine I am not as inclined as he is. I am looking for stellar film looking results, I know its alot to ask given the equipment I am using.

 

On a 2/3" CCD camera, you have a similar depth of field to 16mm film. Technically, it is 2.5 stops more depth of field, i.e. once you match distance and field of view by using a shorter focal length on a 2/3" camera rather than a 35mm camera, you'd have to stop down the 35mm camera's lens by 2.5 stops to match the depth of field on the shorter lens on the 2/3" camera.

 

So if you shoot at T/2.0 on a 2/3" CCD camera, it's like shooting at T/4-5.6 split in 35mm, which is not the end of the world. Even better if you can shoot on some T/1.6 lenses, wide-open, in 2/3" CCD HD. And then you won't have all the problems of using 35mm lenses on an adaptor.

One of the qualities of 35mm is also sharpness. With the amount of glass you'd be using, plus that adapter, you're gong to end up with a MUCH softer image, than just using your zoom lens. I saw a film shot on the Varicam and the Pro35 adapter, not too long ago. True, the film DID have shallower depth of field, but it was also VERY soft looking.

Using the adapter also means you'll be giving up one of the HPX's primary advantages, which is sensitivity.

Hey Michael,

 

I had to look at some files to double check, but shooting @ 720p24 is actually rendering you a 1248 X 702 image size. For most things shooting 720 will do just fine, and on most projects I work on the DP shoots 720. Saves a lot of room on your P2's. You should not -need to shoot 720p24N. just shoot 720p24. Here is how we always sync up sound. Take the song into FCP-add black for the video section and use the video filter that generates timecode. Add 5-10 seconds of countdown for the artist at the beginning of the song. Then export the video to either an Ipod or a Laptop (Ipod is easier, though smaller to read). Then while on set you actually will play the song out to speakers from either the ipod or the laptop. Use the Ipod/Laptop as your slate for wherever you start off the song. Then when editing you can easily sync it up. Let me know if you have any other questions.

-Corey

Actually, you will DEFINITELY WANT to shoot in 720 24P/N this mode records ONLY the 24 frames per second - the OTHER mode (720/24P) records in a 60P stream with pulldown added, wasting space. The ACTUAL frame size is 960x720 - anamorphic. If you're editing in Final Cut - it handles the format with no problem.

As far as synching - an easy method is to record the playback from the shoot to the camera - that way, in Final Cut, you only have to slip the footage until the audio matches up.

Hello Everyone, I am looking to buy an HPX 500; anything/what should I know?

 

The pros the cons, how well will my Fuji 17x lens works with it?

 

How does it compare to others in its' class or what above its' class does it give it a serious run for the money/compete with?

 

Additionally, if I were to use my RedRock M2 lens adaptor with nikon still lens (e.g. 85mm 1.8f) would this give me great results to shoot commercials and indi film features....

 

And finally, does anyone have any footage or (grab)stills of this camera.

 

Many Thanks "in advance" to all who reply, oh and sorry for the ton of questions.. It is a lot of money for me to invest and just want to be sure of my purchase. Again, Thanks!!!

Don't know how well your Fuji lens will work on the Camera. I've got the Canon CAC lens and it's very nice, although the CAC function doesn't eliminate ALL chromatic aberration.

I'd also forget the M2. You'd have to put it in front of your, already, long lens, then put your still lens in front of that - way too much of a hassle to be practical. Just find a way to drop your iris a couple of stops (as David Mullin has suggested, elsewhere) and you'll have your shallow depth of field - the camera IS a 2/3" CCD.

Not to push you away from this forum, but check out DVXUser.com - there are several examples from people who've shot with this camera - commercials and features.

I've been using the HVX200 for green/blue screen work for over a year now - and I highly recommend it for that purpose.

I shoot all the work I do in either the 720PN/24 for 1080i/24P formats. 1080i will give you a cleaner matte. If you can afford the HVX, I'd definitely go that route. DV - even professionally shot DV - cannot overcome the lower resolution and compression when you're trying to pull a clean matte.

Don't make yourself crazy - stay away from DV for any sort of compositing.

And, don't forget "The Right Stuff" lots of excellent (realistic-looking) miniature work.

By lighting, do you mean interior lights in the model or lighting the exterior of the ship. Both lighting elements are usually pretty complicated to produce and shoot. If the miniature is moving - getting the lighting right would involve using a motion control camera and/or rig for the model. Shooting a model with both interior and exterior lighting almost always requires two exposure passes with the camera, to balance out the difference in brightness between the exterior lighting and the interior.

Breaking up the light on the exterior (patterns) is usually a good idea that helps sell the scale of an object - check out the behind the scenes material of the Star Trek the Motion Picture DVD and see what lengths they went to, to light the Enterprise.

You should definitely ask around your area for someone with experience building miniatures. Although you can learn how to build miniatures, it takes years to really master the art and create something that will fool an audience.

If you're doing a super low budget piece for the experience only, go ahead and try your hand at building something - I'd suggest finding the largest scale model kit you can afford and give that a shot - scratch building is MUCH more difficult and requires a LOT of math.