Bassem Fayad

hey friends

have anyone encountered a kind of drop frame problem with the HVX200 ?

it is not really a drop frame but it feels like it , and you can clearly see it while recording !

it is more like if the lens had a swift movement ... i suspect a malfunction of the optical image stabilizer system , though the problem occurs even if the option is shut off !

many HVX users reported the same problem .

is Panasonic aware of this , and have they found any solution yet ?

 

thanks a million

hey friends

sorry it took some time for the test results to come out .

after shooting with both 720NP AND 1080i/25p modes , and printing out to film with both Arri laser and CRT , i can say that 1080i/25p is slightly better ...

 

we should be shooting in one month .

 

thank you all , c u later .

 

much love and peace

Dear All .

I have come a a conclusion.

 

The camera has a chip which only records 1280x720 pixels in progressive scan. The 1080i image is produced by calculation inside the camera. This setting was probably created mainly for news people who need to deliver 1080i directly. For a film out it makes more sense to record in 720p/25p as this represents the original quality and therefore the strength of the camera.

 

do you agree ?

I'm loving this forum :)

 

peace

Panasonic's 24P"A" ("Advance") is something different. It's a different pulldown cadence (2:3:3:2) that allows for NLE's to easily extract a 24P pattern from 60i recording. AFAIK Sony has no equivalent.

 

Happy new year to all .

actually happy life time.

 

here's what i found. by the 1080i/25P mode, Panasonic is saying that the camera shoots 25 frames a second in the progressive mode. for output and recording the 25 Frame per second signal is converted to 50 field per second interlace. so it seems this is a segmented frame method. (for PAl it's simpler than NTSC).

 

but that tells me nothing till now. I still have to pass by an NLE (Final cut studio in this case) and convert the 50 fields interlace back to 25 progressive, keeping in mind that we're going for a film out.

it all depends now on the pull down removal process. how does it happen? does final cut recombine the 50 fields into 25 progressive frames (with no loss or liaising), or drop off one filed and uses the 2nd to get the 25 progressive frames?

this is essential i think.

 

happy new year again

c u next year I guess :)

No, it is you who clearly don't understand the meaning of the terms. "1080i 24P/A" is an inherent contradiction. So is "1080i 25P".

 

What you mean is "1080p24/Sf" or "1080p25/Sf". Having both "i" and "p" in the same specification is the contradiction. Usually we don't even bother with the "/Sf" part, and write "1080p24" or "1080p25" on purchase orders. Those are the terms I use in the Standard Requirements documents that I issue to our Associate Producers and DP's. (1080i is only used for network delivery dubs.)

 

Ordinarily I wouldn't stomp so hard on this kind of misinformation, but there are a lot of students and beginners who read this board. If anybody made that mistake on their first job here, certainly their competence would be widely questioned.

 

I've been in this business for 34 years, and doing post production technology on major network prime time episodic TV for the last 22 years. I was in the room about 12 years ago when Larry Thorpe from Sony proposed and explained the segmented frame idea to the chief engineers of most of the big post houses here in Hollywood.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

 

So when Panasonic say 1080i/25P they are referring to 1080p25/Sf ?

If I went to a post house and they didn't understand what is meant by "1080i 24P/A" or "1080i 25P" (which was mentioned in the beginning of this thread, I'd seriously look for another house. ;)

 

I've done a lot of post work with footage from the HVX and, now the HPX, and I have to tell you, 1080i is used all the time in the settings of the software I use - even when I'm editing progressively acquired footage. The software needs to know if the footage is interlaced so it can remove the pulldown properly.

 

 

Could you please explain how the removal of the pull down exactly happens. (editing on final cut pro).

A friend claims that this process will cause a loss of resolution and you'll find yourself with a resolution equivalent to 700p. !!!

so how does the removal of the pull down work ?

and what if i need to shoot some slow motion shots, (using the 720p), will it be possible to edit with 1080 and 720 ? will the difference be that clear ?

 

thanks for all .

Peace

If I went to a post house and they didn't understand what is meant by "1080i 24P/A" or "1080i 25P" (which was mentioned in the beginning of this thread, I'd seriously look for another house. ;)

 

I've done a lot of post work with footage from the HVX and, now the HPX, and I have to tell you, 1080i is used all the time in the settings of the software I use - even when I'm editing progressively acquired footage. The software needs to know if the footage is interlaced so it can remove the pulldown properly.

 

 

Could you please explain how the removal of the pull down exactly happens. (editing on final cut pro).

A friend claims that this process will cause a loss of resolution and you'll find yourself with a resolution equivalent to 700p. !!!

so how does the removal of the pull down work ?

and what if i need to shoot some slow motion shots, (using the 720p), will it be possible to edit with 1080 and 720 ? will the difference be that clear ?

 

thanks for all .

Peace

Thank you all for your replies.
though it seems we will have to take this discussion further concerning the 1080i or 720p.
what i do not get is the fact that the camera shoots progressive images in an interlace mode !!!!
does that mean that we will get an image of 540 lines at the end (or an image of 1080 doubling the lines of one trim) if that's true it does not indicate more information in the image , does it ?

as for the settings i do agree that the best way is to transfer some test footage, though i was counting on some previous experiences concerning the black levels and noise....
i will let you know about our test results. (actually i am now thinking about testing two different settings)

as for the labs, we will have to choose between "SwissEffect" in Switzerland and "Micros" in France. (giving us good rate). anyone heard about them ? I have seen a Lebanese feature film shot with the DVX100 and transferred to 35. the French DOP used a pedestal of +7 and the result with the grain issue was amazing . apparently most of the noise was delt with at the lab. counting on that i think. will have to wait for our test.

I would love to get some more posts concerning the 1080i/25p and 720p/25p ....

thanks again ,
loving your support
Peace
Bassem

Hey all .

 

I am a director/DOP working on an independent production using the HVX200 PAL and transferring to 35mm film.

 

I am new in this digital to film process and would like to ask for some tips.

 

first of all, we will have to choose between 1080i/25p and 720p/25p. all the research we've done left us more confused. my opinion is to go for the 720p though my director disagrees. so , any tips regarding this issue ?

 

 

2nd,

knowing the limits of the HVX200 I will opt for the following settings:

 

- lower the detail and vertical detail level to the max in order to avoid video harsh look.

- set the pedestal level to almost +7 trying to gain a stop in the low zones. I understand that noise level will increase dramatically but will be counting on D.I to overcome that .

- chroma level of +2

- cinelike Matrix

- knee , MID

- Gamma HD NORM

- and the vertical detail freq. set to thin !

 

will count on a Zebra setting of 80% to determine exposure knowing that the camera sensitivity is around 400 ASA . will avoid over exposures of more than one stop, and underexposures of minus three stops .

 

Am I thinking right ? any help is appreciated .

 

thank you in advance ,

Peace

Bassem Fayad