John Allen

So the 3D was better than the Super Bowl version then? Cause I didn't much like how the Super Bowl's "3D" turned out.

I still need to see Coraline. I've been really excited about it for sometime, and would have gone yesterday, but I was celebrating my birthday with a couple of other guys and didn't have time to see it.

As far as Sundance is concerned, let me be honest with you. Have you ever made a single must-see film that actually got loads of cash at the box office and was very well received by audiences everywhere?

Hey just to let you know, since Adam is too humble to say this, he has had multiple films win at festivals before. One of which recently took home the Audience Choice award at a pretty well known fest in Chicago that had about 300 films competing. So I think there is no doubt that Adam knows what he's talking about here.

Oops, sorry. My computer was acting up so for some reason it posted the same comment 4 times. Not sure why. :blink:

Err.

You mean the producers and spin doctors made him apologise......

 

jb

Yeah, I guess that could also be why, but he seemed pretty cool about it. He even told them they could continue to make fun of him on the radio, cause he said that he deserves it. I'm actually kind of tired of this conversation though. I don't think it's the most important thing in the world to try and figure out why or why not someone did what they did. It was interesting at the start, but now it's gotten kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to get back to talking about "cinematography." :)

Err.

You mean the producers and spin doctors made him apologise......

 

jb

Yeah, I guess that could also be why, but he seemed pretty cool about it. He even told them they could continue to make fun of him on the radio, cause he said that he deserves it. I'm actually kind of tired of this conversation though. I don't think it's the most important thing in the world to try and figure out why or why not someone did what they did. It was interesting at the start, but now it's gotten kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to get back to talking about "cinematography." :)

Err.

You mean the producers and spin doctors made him apologise......

 

jb

Yeah, I guess that could also be why, but he seemed pretty cool about it. He even told them they could continue to make fun of him on the radio, cause he said that he deserves it. I'm actually kind of tired of this conversation though. I don't think it's the most important thing in the world to try and figure out why or why not someone did what they did. It was interesting at the start, but now it's gotten kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to get back to talking about "cinematography." :)

Err.

You mean the producers and spin doctors made him apologise......

 

jb

Yeah, I guess that could also be why, but he seemed pretty cool about it. He even told them they could continue to make fun of him on the radio, cause he said that he deserves it. I'm actually kind of tired of this conversation though. I don't think it's the most important thing in the world to try and figure out why or why not someone did what they did. It was interesting at the start, but now it's gotten kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to get back to talking about "cinematography." :)

Hey I actually found a link to the apology, so here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEl16fdgtgY

Aploogies John, it was on a radio station called KrOQ on the Kevin and Bean show. Apparently you can hear it on their website. I've only read partial transcripts which seem to be skewed in one direction or another by how they quote it and I don't really want to hear him ring up and apologise because it was embaressing enough hearing him doing the tirade, so I don't have a link to anything I'd feel good about giving out.

 

I've heard rumours of a letter too but I've not seen it.

Oh no that's fine, don't worry, I don't really need a link. But yeah that's cool that Mr. Bale apparently apologized for what he did at least.

Just wanted to add to this thread that Mr Bale has given a complete and unequivical apology for his behaviour, describing it as inexcusable and way out of line. I'm quite impressed that he has done this as we all know not everyone would.

Would you happen to have any links to where we might be able to find the sound/video/text of what he said. It's not that I don't believe you and want proof, I just think it would be interesting to see what he said. Thanks! :)

Really highlights, I think how this profession is very dependent upon interpersonal skills.... the ability to work with people from all walks and with all forms of attitude. It's sad that Bale exploded in such a way, sadder still that it's not an exceptional case- just one where the lav was on and the audio leaked.

I got really mad once on a set. I was stupid, and young[er]. Anymore I find that a good sense of humor about some things really can go a long way.

Well said Adrian, as always. :)

I went to Columbia College Chicago and can recommend it for the right people. It's not $35k/year though; tuition is $18k for the fall and spring semesters. I guess if you're living in their housing and paying over $1k/month then that adds up, but you can live off-campus for much less. It is pretty absurd to pay that much for their Gen Ed classes, though, especially since they're really not academically rigorous in any way. A lot of people go to community college or something for a few years beforehand, get their Gen Eds out of the way for very little money, and then come to Columbia and just focus on their major. That's actually what I did, except that I did it at UW-Madison (out of state for me; I don't remember what the tuition was but it was actually significantly more than Columbia's), so that effectively became my incredibly expensive community college Gen Ed. Not that I regret having gone to Madison, of course! But yeah, Columbia's Cinematography program is really excellent and produces a lot of really good, really serious graduates. It is very intensive; I spent 3 years at Columbia studying cinematography even with all of my non-major requirements taken care of.

Yeah, I was including the living costs. I have thought about living off campus, so I will look further into that.

One thing that I noticed is that the people who did really well were almost always transfer students. Kids who came in straight from high school were more often the ones who thought "I like movies, so I'm going to go to film school," and then found out that it's really hard, and got discouraged. I don't know if they've changed it since I graduated, but when I was there, Columbia had an open admissions policy, which meant that basically as long as you were functionally literate and had money, you could get in, but they countered this by having really really intense introductory film courses, which meant that those who weren't serious about it got weeded out pretty quickly. Many of the really successful students I had class with were those who had transferred in from somewhere else, or who had been out of school for a while doing something else- they were the ones who, having had more experience with other things, had decided that they were going to get serious about filmmaking, and had committed themselves to it.

 

So I don't know exactly what advice to give to a 17 year old. I guess I'd like to say that you should do something else first, in part because it's difficult to know what you want to do when you're still in High School, and it's a lot of time and money to spend on such a highly specific field of study if you're not really really certain that it's going to be useful to you, and also in part because knowledge of other disciplines and "life experience" are really valuable things to bring to the table as a filmmaker.

 

Sorry if that's kind of a derail...

No I completely agree with you. I have known many guys who are just like that. They say, "Oh I'm a movie buff so I want to be a film maker," and I'm just thinking, "dude there is sooooo much more that goes into it than just liking movies." This has been a passion of mine ever since I can remember. So far I have given it my blood, sweat, and tears and I know for certain that I am not going to back out now. I mean so far I have already had to put up with many discomforts in the process of making films. I have not yet been shot at I know, but I have had many other things happen to me that have made me question myself. I have always decided to keep on pushing. I seriously would not be able to live very happily without doing what I love, which is cinematography. I know that God is my ultimate source of happiness, but I get sick even when I'm haven't been on a shoot for as long as a month.

Not that you were looking for a sob speech from me or anything. lol But I hope that convinces you that I'm not just another one of those kids that like films. Those kind of kids are one of my greatest pet pieves cause I know that when people look at me they see that I'm 17 years old and they automatically think of me as just another, when I am most definitely not.

Thanks for the comment though. I totally understand what you're saying and I mightily agree. I am definitely willing to work as hard as I can to get to where I want to be.

There's no reason to get TWO film production degrees, one as a BA and the other as an MFA -- unless you goal is to become an academic and get a PhD in film (there is no PhD though for production).

So by "academic" do you mean like a professor or something?

No, getting work has little to do with what degree you have, though if you are a beginner, at least a film education on your resume suggests you know something. But any actual shooting credits trumps any education listing on a resume, and your reel trumps all of that if you are a DP, within limits (credits matter too.)

 

But going to a film school may be a nice buffer zone to entering an industry with fellow graduates who may connect you with jobs. Plus you may actually learn something in school!

Ok yeah that's basically what I thought you would say. Thanks. :)

I was self-taught more or less - a decade or more of shooting Super-8, and then 16mm, on my own. But I had little clue as to how to enter the marketplace after all that time -- attending film school at the age of 26 helped me understand the market I was about to enter a little better because now I was surrounded by dozens of people in the same boat as myself, some of whom hired me as a DP after graduation. I got by with a little help from my friends...

Sweet yeah. See that's why I started reading books on cinematography when I was 13 and then a couple years ago I started working with a Director from Chicago who has graciously givin me the opportunity to get a bunch of experience. My goal has been to know so much about this, so that when I do go to get my BA I will be so far ahead of everybody else that I can just move even further in learning this art.

I talked to Jayson Crothers, who went to Columbia and attended the AFI, and he said that the AFI didn't really teach him that much more than what he learned at Columbia.

(Jayson if I misquoted you then let me know.)

Yeah see with me, I live in Iowa, so the state college isn't really an option. So what I've decided to do is just work and save a lot of money and then also go to a Jr. college here in town and get my core education and then that will transfer me to Columbia. The Jr. college is only $3,000/yr. so it will save me about $64,000 which makes me very glad.

David would you recommend getting your Masters or would you say that I wouldn't have to. I had thought about trying to get into the AFI after getting my undergraduate from Columbia, but that will cost me about $120,000 and it just doesn't seem worth it. I mean, having your Master won't actually help you to get a job will it?

Now to play Devil's Advocate... with the ridiculously high cost of most film schools today, I'm not surprised when students start demanding more for their money! If I were paying $30,000/year to go to a film school and all they had was some old Arri-S and Bolex cameras and most of the coursework was taught by TA's and people who just got a degree themselves and were willing to work cheap as an underpaid professor... I would wonder where my money was going to.

Yeah I know it's pretty ridiculous. I'm planning to attend Columbia College Chicago in a couple of years and they cost about $35,000 a year, but luckily I have heard very good things about that college. I have heard of a lot of "film schools" though that cost over 30 grand and they only learn by text books.

Yeah, I think what David is saying is very truthful, as always. But I mean, one of the best ways to learn is when you are making low to no-budget films. See then you are forced to try and get a really beautiful image, and portray to story with what you have. You learn a lot by doing that. It's kind of like when my dad started teaching me how to play guitar. I really wanted to learn on a small electric, cause it was smaller, less painful on your fingers and it just felt much more smoother than the acoustic. He made me learn on the acoustic though, because it was harder, which made me learn a lot very fast. Later on when I got an electric, I was able to play it with absolute ease. The same concept applies to cinematography I think. When you are forced to use little to none, or old/outdated instead of new equipment, then in the long run you will learn how to get the best image from just the sweat of your hands and the passion in your heart.

I know all of you look at me as just a 17 year old, but I'm just saying my opinion. Over the past 2 years of working on various films, I have had to sometimes use just a few shop lights to get what I wanted, but I learned very fast as a result of it and I have not had any college learning yet. You might think I don't know anything, and you are probably right, but it's just my opinion so you can take it or leave it. So I hope, from commenting a lot on this forum, that I haven't come off as a pompous and arrogant know-it-all. ;)

But again, I agree with David.

The problem is, the only thing anyone has to go on is the recording of Bale's hissy fit. And it that recording, unless my memory is wrong, he definitely says it was the second take - not rehearsal - that he'd walked around in the background of. He also says he's walking around behind Bryce, who happens to be the leading lady, which certainly suggests something a little more serious than tweaking a light during a rehearsal.

Ok well actually, just because he says that he wants to have another take, does not mean that they are shooting, it just simply means that he wants to go over it again. Another thing is that Bryce might have been out of frame, and off the set.

Also if they were actually filming then the director and the cinematographer would have been sitting somewhere watching the shot take place on a monitor. Or the DP would be actually shooting the camera, so there is no way that he would go walking in frame checking lights if they were actually filming. It's just not the way it happens, which leads me to agree with Adam that this was certainly a rehearsal and not the actual shot. I mean there is always the possibility that the filmmakers have no idea what they are doing and will just decide to shoot a shot at anytime without making it known on the set that the camera's running, but I highly doubt that they are that stupid.

Oh btw, it was a little more than just a "hissy fit." He actually threatened to hurt the poor guy, and you could also hear him charging after the DP. So this was definitely an assault.

I'm sure this isn't a universal truth, I've seen a few tantys from DPs and other heads of department including screaming matches between HODs and Directors, Actors at crew, Actors at Directors, etc...

The easiest people to get along with are almost always the Makeup people. A lot of camera people have huge egos.

Yeah that's true. I guess I didn't really mean to say it as a fact, but I have just heard a lot of actors and directors comment on how easy going and hard working the DP's are. I know when I'm on set, the actors get along with me very well, and we'll joke around, but I guess that doesn't prove anything. lol But yeah, I'm sure not all DP's are easy going, I mean just look on here. You'll find a bunch of crabby ones.

Actually, since the audio starts during the tirade and not before it, I would guess that they rolled with the specific intent to record it, very likely at the producers request. It was a rehearsal, not a take, otherwise they would have had video assist of the incident instead of just audio.

Hmm, that's interesting. Man since it was a rehearsel it makes it worse. Geeeeeeze, Christian got that ticked off over a little rehearsal! My oh my.

This situation is what it is. What I can't understand is why the sound was rolling without the camera. Unless, maybe the producer asked it to be recorded as evidence?

 

When actors wear radio mikes, it's important to keep the actors conversation private when not rehearsing or shooting. It's not really fair to anyone to have their private conversations broadcast over every comtek on the set, and especially recorded and leaked.

 

Some actors can be difficult, I've heard. But it's a shame that the cinematographer's reputation has been dragged through the internet and such like this. I don't think it's really fair to him, even if he were somehow "guilty" in the incident which I'm not suggesting.

Hey Bruce,

I'm guessing that they never meant to keep the audio rolling. What probably happened was that they were shooting the scene and then in the middle of the shot, this incident took place. The sound crew must have thought that it was going to finish and they were going to have a new take. Lol, or I guess they could have been so surprised about what just happened that they just forgot that the audio was running.:huh:

Yeah it is a shame, but it also could work in the opposite. I mean it could actually show how well manored DP's are, and what they have to put up with as a reward for their hard work. But I think most people have sided with the DP in that Christian Bale had no right to act the way he did.

Thanks for posting. :)

Lol, I think it's hilarious how Christian is telling the DP how unprofessional he is. Well Christian, hate to brake it to ya but if you think you're acting at all professional by screamin the DP's head off, then you are one crazy, self absorbed pig.

There is no excuse for him acting the way he did. If I was the DP then I would maybe walk off the set, well I might not do that, but I would certainly never work with him again.

What's funny is that the DP was just checking a light, and in essence, making sure that light is good will make Christian look good. I mean really, the actors don't do crap. Yeah sure they do their work, and get stressed out, but really their job is second nature to them. The DP on the other hand has to worry about all kinds of things, and they work hard just to please the actors public vanity. They shouldn't have to put up with this crap. The Director should have taken more responsibility too. He should've stepped in there and stopped it. Maybe even get some security in there.

I think this also proves why Cinematographers are the guys most easy to get along with on the set, just because they have to put up with all this crap and apologize a lot even though they didn't really do anything. They really have to learn to just bite their tongue and accept that these actors are just sorry little people. When people do stuff like that to me I almost pity them, because they aren't satisfied with their lives. Yeah of course they act like they are having the greatest life possible, but anyone that will lose their temper like that off of the drop of a hat, is just sad. They're not content with their life or something. Anyway, I think that it's just something that, as a profession, the Cinematographer will just have to put up with it, even if it makes you feel humiliated. It's just part of the job that you have to get used to.;)

Ok sweet. I will have to check it out. :)

The ASC recently had an artical on slum dogg millionaire

Anthony dodd mantle said he used si 2k camera for alot of daytime work in the street and allyways

Do you happen to know which month that was? I'd really like to read it. Thanks. :)

Yeah, I'd really like to see the film. From the look of the stills I think that Benjamin Button should receive the Oscar, but I haven't seen Slumdog yet so I can't really say. The stills look really nice though.

Well here's the technical specs. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1010048/technical

It does not say the percentage used, but it does confirm that it was shot both on fuji film and HD with Silicon Imaging. So I'm not sure if this link will tell you guys anything that you don't already know, but I thought I would share it.