tom doherty

I do hope this becomes a Super 8 release, I'm already rather impressed with the VISION 3 500T. :)

how is the vision3 500t super8? have any uploaded footage?

im not sure if this stock will meter correctly with a nizo 801 or canon 1014 xls, anyone know??

I'm inclined to agree, as I put earlier, if you want the super-8 "look", then using 16mm isn't the way to go about it!

 

But super-8 often gets presented as a 'cheap' and easy way of getting into and learning about handling film. Well clearly it's actually cheaper to learn using 16mm.

 

If one wants to learn about handling film, then I'd also argue then 16mm lenses with proper aperture rings are easier to get to grips with than various dials and knobs to try and manually set the aperture on S8. Also learning how to handle and thread spools of film isn't difficult and is much more educational than dropping a cartridge in a S8 camera.

 

Overall, if someone wanted to know what was the cheapest way to learn and experiment with shooting film rather than video - use 16mm not Super8, it's cheaper and of more educational benefit.

 

You expressed surprise at the comment that shooting 16mm was 40% cheaper than Super 8, but as I pointed out, you're already shooting it 35% cheaper yourself! The comment was made that SFL's prices were high - yet they're actually significantly cheaper than a similar level of service from Andec in Germany!

dont get me wrong i understand what your saying. i also agree with the fact that you will probably learn more about film as a format by starting with super16.

i got introduced to, and started with super8, and i'll be honest, i'm very glad i did. i think if i started with 16, super8 wouldnt have had the effect on me as it did. it was the first film i was introduced to and have loved it ever since. i prefer super16 on a proffesional basis for obvious reasons, but for personal use, its super8 all the way for me.

My post above shows 22% cheaper just on 400ft.

 

The price you paid Kodak for x3 400ft rolls effectively means you got "3 for the price of 2" based on the cost of just 400ft on its own. That means you were paying £16.21/minute.

 

From your own figures that is 35% cheaper than the quoted S8 prices!

 

 

...of course x3 400ft rolls would equate to x12 super-8 cartridges. Oliver did state they offer discounts for "volume", you might find the price of S8 dropping a bit as well?

i dont know. i dont think of it like that, theres not really alot of point in comparing super8 and super16 prices. 2 different formats for 2 very different outcomes. depends what you prefer. you can never really compare price on it.

Hi

 

Your film should be okay. I am in the UK too and rarely put my Super 8 film in the fridge. I usually keep it in my filing cabinet, sometimes for over 6 months and the film has always turned out fine. I believe that with Super 8 this makes the film run smoother, the few times I have stored Super 8 in a fridge I have ended up with unsteady footage.

 

Pav

i keep all my super8 in the fridge, some has been there since even last summer. i take the film out of the fridge and wait 45 minutes before putting it in the camera. wonder if this is why i get an unsteady image with lost of jitter?

I shot a roll of it last week and scanned it today. I was very impressed with it. It's quite finegrain and I was really impressed by the latidude. Kodak says that one of its qualities is that it good at mixing daylight and tungstenlights but I didn't try it. I tested it for an upcoming 20-minute short that I will shoot in two weeks. I've decided to shoot all daylight interior scenes on it.

thanks for the screenshots

good idea would to be to ring the closest lab to you, be polite and ask if they have any for free, might even pay the postage too.

saw this yesterday before your post, really enjoyed it. well shot, especially for a first time super8er, and nice editing.

take it you used the tri-x for the indoor stuff and plus-x for the outdoor??

tom

However, to give you the basics, developing is £25 a roll and transfer is £20 a roll but best to drop a line for all the details:

 

bookings@sohofilmlab.co.uk

 

Stock is not something we really push (more an add-on for our customers) but we do sell Vision 2 200T 7217 and 500T 7218 both at £12.50 per roll.

Oliver

 

 

£57.50 for 50ft........... :blink: :blink:

not being funny but those prices are shocking,why shoot super 8,when i can get 16mm done 40% cheaper.

i think a little local competition is needed.

by the way i have not got a problem with paying top dollar but i expect the finest quality, your 16 and 35 has always been good but i know better and cheaper s8 labs. :rolleyes:

offtopic but where do you get this super16 done 40% cheaper? i recently paid £199 for 3 X 400ft rolls from kodak, and have been quoted 21p per foot for process and telecine by a lab in the uk.

I work for Soho Film Lab and I wanted to let everone know that we are the ONLY facility in the UK that provides professional super8 colour negative developing.

 

Our transfers are provided via top end, professional telecine equipment (Ursa Diamond and HD/SD Spirit) to almost any format (Digibeta, Mini DV, DVD or even flash drives etc...)

 

We do sell Kodak stock but you do not have to purchase it from SFL to process!

 

We are one of the very few, full service labs in the UK looking after 35mm (neg, pos, colour and B/W), 16mm (neg, pos, colour and B/W) and Super 8 (neg, col.)

 

Oliver

nice to get a reply from someone from SFL, i have a few questions as i couldnt find alot on the website. do you have a price list for super 8 stock, process and telecine? i am really interested in the quick turnaround time i have heard about, would it be possible to buy reversal stock from you, and have it processes and telecine if i send it from plymouth, in say, under 2 weeks? can you also to telecine to a memory stick instead of a minidv tape, if we provide it?

thanks

tom

speaking of super 8 ads, i saw one with sarah jessica parkers stinking perfume on tv today.

 

 

that sarah j parker stinky commercial and in the uk swift cover insurance with iggy pop both have some really rotten looking super 8.

not sure what is going wrong.

it would be easy to blame bush and cheney,but maybe it is obama's fault.

or maybe the productions are just letting directors shoot now. :blink:

i wouldnt say the super 8 in the perfume ad was rotten, was good for the ad, shame it was a shitty ad. i really hate that woman, and i have no idea why.

[quote name='James Millward' date='Mar 24 2009, 08:28 AM' post='279215'

 

i like using 5 or 10 year out of date film,clearly not good for a drama when you need to match shots,but always interesting.

i did a music video years ago i baked the cartridge in the oven,microwaved another and buried another in the garden for 3 weeks.

that pesky film is tough even the fungus growing on it did not degrade the image enough.

sounds great, got any uploaded footage?

looks great, what stock did you use? 200t?

speaking of super 8 ads, i saw one with sarah jessica parkers stinking perfume on tv today.

HI tom.

have you looked in the achives of this board for some ideas on film rating.? there are LOTS of threads that have "good ideas" on exposuing film, depending on the look and emostion you want your scene to have. YES if your meter is accurate, many folks would overexpose by 1/3 ot 2/3 of a stop as a handy rule of thumb when using negative film.

thanks for the reply. i plan to overexpose about 1/3rd of a stop depending on lighting situations. would this be reccomended for both 200t and 500t?

thanks again for any help.

faulty but NOT broken, braun nizo 801

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120393020076

shooting only my second super 16mm short beginning of april with an arri sr2, just ordered the stock from kodak, will be shooting 800ft of vision2 200t for daylight exterior and interior, and 400ft of vision3 500t for nighttime exterior and interior.

any reccomendations on how i should rate these stocks? (i will be using a sekonic l-358 lightmeter). read somewhere its a good idea to overexpose some negative by 1/3 of a stop? good idea? any other tips?

stock was fresh out of the fridge, waited about 45 minutes before i used it. no strange noises from the camera at all. am tempted to send it back under the warranty to super 8 exchange, hopefully buy a canon xl camera maybe......

more super 8 problems! not that bad though.

recently shot 2 rolls of tr-ix using a braun nizo 801 for a title sequence to a short. most of the footage was pretty much ok, but quite a few scenes had alot of jitter and some awful flickering as well.

http://www.vimeo.com/3689253

uploaded to ask for any help and tips as to how to reduce this jitter. everything i have shot with a nizo 801 seems to have these jitter problems. also wondered if anyone know what cause the light flickering in some shots?

thinking about selling the nizo to get a canon 814/1014xl camera, as footage ive seen on these cameras have a very steady frame, what do you think?

thanks for any help

(am shooting my straight8 entry this weekend on tri-x and want little jitter and no flickering like in the video above if possible)

There is no reason for worry

 

So little overexposure would be fine for Tri-X. That is absolutely OK.

For color negative stocks it is recommended to overexpose up to 1 stop

 

You can read some info about cartridge notches on the following site:

http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8_Ca...dge_Notch_Ruler

 

Best regards

glad to hear that, thanks for the quick answer. have had extreme exposure problems before with a nizo that had a broken internal metre, so slightly nervous.

The Nizo 6080, Canon 1014, 1014XLS, the Beaulieu's are set manually for the ASA, and lots of older, bigtime silent cameras, made back when film manufacturers were promising lots of different stocks. Sound Elmos should probably be avoided if you want a big ASA range, but they can manual exposure, too.

 

But there's really nothing to worry about. The 801 is as good as it gets, and its ASA limitation can be easily overcome. Use VISION 200, and if you really need the 500's speed, then that means your aperture will be open up all the way anyway, so it doesn't matter if the meter thinks you have a slower film.

 

Negative stock is very forgiving, and all the existing reversal films will work well in those Nizos. If in doubt, just cut a notch in the daylight cartridges.

thanks for the quick reply. glad to hear 200t should be ok in most lighting situations, same with existing reversal stocks. im quite happy using the nizo as its the first and only camera ive used, and has all the framerates etc that i like in a super8 camera. you say cut a notch if in doubt, how do i do this, any specific measurements, and where in the cartridge? as i said, im completely new with notch cutting and all that jazz.

cheers again

tom

hi

i have a few questions, baring in mind im still new-ish to using the format.

1.) recently shot 2 rolls of tri-x using a braun nizo 801, and am waiting for the results. i then read that it would be overexposed because the nizo can only go to 160 asa. so how will the film turn out? (i shot in overcast conditions outdoors, mainly architecture etc)

2.) if the nizo only reads to 160 ASA how does this affect the vision2 200t stock?

and even 500t?

3.) i have yet to be introduced to the world of cartridge notches, and basically know absolutely nothing about it, does anyone have a basic guide, photos etc of what its all about to get me started?

4.) are there actually any super8 cameras that can read any current kodak stock with an internal automatic exposure meter, without messing with notches on cartridges?

thanks for any help, much appreciated.

Well, the Nizo will read it at ASA 100, which is one-stop overexposed. That's not necessarily bad, especially in low-light conditions, where you need it wide open anyway.

 

With silver bodied Nizos there are two solutions to get around the ASA 160 limitation. Either cut a filter notch in each cartridge to circumvent the ASA 100 setting (the 'daylight' film reading), or-- easier-- just insert the notchless cartridge and toggle the filter switch to bulb.

 

If you notice, toggling the switch back and forth gives you a slightly higher and lower reading. Use the smaller aperture one (the bigger number in the viewfinder)-- so that the meter is being set for ASA 160 vs. 100. It's a unique feature of these particular cameras, this toggling ability-- a way for them to cancel out the 2/3 stop kick-down caused by the regular notchless-cartridge/super 8 protocol.

 

Without this ability, the silver Nizos cannot read high-speed daylight films accurately without doing construction work to the film cartridges, which was unheard of years ago.

 

Remember, this feature is exclusive to these Nizos-- most newer advanced cameras can read above 160 so there's no problem (an exception--sound Elmos).

 

What Kodak does is they notch Tri-X at ASA 250, and then use the notchless cartridge to kick the reading down to the daylight complement of the ASA 250 speed-indice size (both speeds use the same size indice-- that's how the cameras choose between the two-- they see if the cartridge is notchless. If it is, they go with the lower ASA).

 

This notchless cartridge also kicks out the camera's internal 85 filter, but that's OK, because by design, none of these 'daylight' films need a filter. It's all a very concisely designed system.

 

It's also the reason why the Nizos read Tri-X at ASA 100. They think the cartridge's ASA 250 speed-indice is 160-- it's all they can read-- so they set the meter to the ASA 160's complement, which is ASA 100.

 

BTW, this is how Kodak speed-notches Plus-X, -- they use the ASA 160 speed-indice, then have the notchless cartridge kick the speed down to a precise ASA 100.

 

Not all cameras work this way according to the prescribed super 8 protocol, but Nizos and Canons do.

think i get the jist. just. wish it was slightly easier and did more research into this before planning for straight8.

can anyone reccomend any camera that can read all 5 kodak stocks without any troubles, notching etc?

thanks

Yeah, if you cut a notch in the cartridge, the meter will be set to ASA 160. But that's about 1 1/2 stops overexposed.

shot 2 rolls of tri-x (with the nizo) a few weeks ago, but have just read that the nizos internal lightmeter does not read tri-x properly? can anyone confirm this? was hoping to shoot tri-x for a straight8 entry.

thanks

Hi Tom,

 

If you can't find what you are looking for in the UK, I can recommend a good solution not far on the Continent : Color by Dejonghe (see on the net) is a good Belgian professional lab that is cheap and friendly to small projects -- a rather rare beast these days !

 

Cheers,

B.

thanks

did a bit of phoning round yesterday, only answer i got was ilab i think, they offered telecine and process as 21p per foot plus vat.

so 1,200 works out around £250ish

I've used Blue Cinetech a few times, I though the service was good and they were really helpful. The first telecine I had done was not that good, but I had massively underexposed the film and it also looked no good projected. Once I learnt to shoot correctly the results were really fine for me, I'll definitely use them again. Much nicer guys than some others here in the UK anyway.

ah good, thansk for the reply.

will buy my next batch from them

Sorry for double post. how is the widescreen centre? Especially telecine and turnaround time. Have any samples?

thanks for the reply

to answer your question- not really sure about the telecine quality, seemed fine enough, but i had exposure troubles with a nizo i had at the time. ive only ever used the widescreen centre for buying film really. turnaround time is the gerneral, about 2 week-ish. customer service is ok.

tom