Evan Andrew John Prosofsky
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Posts posted by Evan Andrew John Prosofsky
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Hey Everybody!
Today is kindof a funny day for me. It was probably over two years ago when I made one of my first posts on cinematography.com to ask about 16mm and humidity. I was asking because I was going to West Edmonton Malls World Waterpark to make a my first short film. Thinking back I feel like a completely different person now, these forums have given so much to me and I can't believe how much incredible stuff I've learnt. S
o, finally, I have a trailer to show you. The film was shot on super 16mm 7201/7217 with an SR3 and a Zeiss 11-110 T2.2. I did a 2k scan at cinelicious and color graded in FCP. I'd be flattered if anyone wanted to comment or critique, and if anyones interested please feel free to message me regarding premiere dates and so on :)
Currently I am using indiegogo (a crowd funding platform like kickstarter) to try and get funding to finish the sound design. I can imagine I'm not the first person to use cinematography.com to promote my project, and I apologize for doing so. But I figure, you're all filmmakers and you understand how expensive it can be (I have spent over 8000 out of pocket so far), and hopefully, you also understand how important sound is! If so, please do me a huge huge favor and take a look at my indiegogo campaign. If you're not interested, below are links to my website as well as the trailer for WATERPARK.
Thankyou!
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Incredible, thanks for all the help everyone.
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Hiya,
This May I will be flying to New York for the first time to shoot a couple music videos. I'm required to find a rental house with the camera equipment we need and relatively low rate (haha). I've never rented in NY before so I'm hoping that ya'll would be able to help me out! I'm looking for a RED MX package or ALEXA package. I'm pretty open to lens suggestions but I'd prefer to use something older to cut down on the sharpness of the cams, perhaps something like lomos, old cooke panchros, super speeds, or something along that line. Alternatively, I haven't shot masterprimes/s4s before, and that might be a fun, completely different option to try. So, i suppose, to sum up, I would be extremely grateful if those with experience renting in NY could tell me the best places to find the aforementioned items and that have the fairest deals for 3/day weekend rentals.
Thankyou very much!
Evan
PS
Yes I have been searching the internet, I haven't found a heck of a lot besides Adorama, Abel Cine, and Sim Video. I feel like I'm looking in all the wrong places. There must be some cheaper rental houses or film co ops?
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I've seen lights shot into a kiddie pool with a mirror in it, grips pushing the edge of the pool so the water moves around a little.
This sounds like a doable option! Do you remember how large the effect on the wall was in relation to its distance from the wall? And was the mirror roughly the same size as the kiddie pool? Know this would be really helpful because I'm basically going to have to buy the materials, thanks!
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Hi all,
Came across an interesting challenge the other day when reading a script for a music video. I have to create the effect of water reflections on a wall (think average room size). The room will be darkly lit. Think swimming pool at night. The only thing is, there won't actually be any water in the room, its just an effect meant to be "surreal". The only solution that came to mind was shooting light through a couple small aquariums, and then using a mirror to better direct the water reflections on to the wall. Think that would work? Any better ideas?
Does anyone have any experience doing this? Really having trouble with this one.
Looking forward to hearing some suggestions, thanks!
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Hard to say what your strobes will be - a camera flash can be anywhere from 1/1000 to 1/50,000 sec...
It's the wild west out there ;)
Hard to say in any case as there is a major dependency on the strobe to subject distance - (which is the same for any light source)
Seriously, best bet is to get/borrow a flash meter
I have an old Minolta flash meter I could use, but I don't understand...is there a way to trigger the strobe flash via the meter? Just to confirm incase anyone is confused, this is a "party strobe light" and not a photographic strobe light.
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I didn't think about the distance softening it like that... My experience with film and strobes was with bolexes which have a plane-parallel shutter that is much closer to the gate. You still get a blur and might even fool yourself it was purely motion blur if you didn't know the small magnitude exposures that strobes give.
How small magnitude are these exposures really? I am hoping for the strobe to be bright enough to completely illuminate the frame (for a partial moment only, obviously) from complete darkness. Is this feasible? (I'm assuming it probably depends on the type of strobe, but...)
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Unless you've got a intermittent and rocket-speed mirror you'll still get partial hits.
You'll see part of the image exposed and the other not at an angle - the angle the edge of mirror was at when the flash hit
You might decide this is cool, if not, it's an issue
Sorry I'm a little unclear what you're saying, could you elaborate a bit? What do you mean about a partial image exposure? Is there a way to counteract this?
I think I'll just be shooting with a typical 180 degree shutter on a BL4...though I'm considering a wider shutter angle to allow more light and to presumably allow for more strobe flashes to render on film. Am I correct in this thinking?
My apologies if I seem daft, thanks ya'll!
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The main thing to remember is that with a mirror shutter reflex camera, what you see in the finder is exactly what you *don't* get on the film. Run the camera without film and watch several of the strobes with one eye on the finder and the other open. The ones you *don't* see in the finder are the ones you have on film.
As for exposure, shoot bracketing tests. Strobes because of their short duration get into the area where reciprocity failure becomes an issue.
-- J.S.
Hi John thanks for the response. Very Helpful. Won't be able to shoot any bracketing tests to determine the reciprocity (though I'd love to), any idea where a good place to start will be?
Furthermore, isn't it dangerous to run the camera without film in it? Or am I going crazy? I seem to remember someone telling me the mirror shutter can be damaged? We're shooting with the BL4 EVO if that makes any difference.
Alternatively, would it be a good idea to shoot with an open shutter if I want all the strobes to register? Would this work? Obviously I"m aware of the way it will change the way motion is rendered..
Thanks!
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Hi All,
This coming weekend I'll be shooting a music video on 5219, this will be my first experience with strobe lighting. The scene takes place indoors in a rather large loft space, with strobes providing the main source of light. Having never used a strobe before I'm curious if there is anything special I need to look for in terms of the bright flashes syncing up with the film. (we'll be shooting primarily at 24fps but perhaps some slow motion at 48fps and even 120fps). Our original idea was just to rent "strobe party lights" from a party lighting store, as the film co-op here does not have any special lighting units designed specifically for motion pictures.
Secondly, is there a particular technique you all like to use to determine exposure when using the strobe? I'd like the room to be entirely black and only illuminated by the strobe flashes intermittently. Thanks very much!
Evan
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I saw a behind-the-scenes photo of Storaro shooting an exterior for "Sheltering Sky" and you can see an 81EF tag on the matte box and Kodak 50D stock on the mag.
I know that "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me" was shot with a double 85 filter ( i.e. An 85 filter on top of daylight balance).
Yes to your last question.
Thanks David!
Helpful and informative as always :)
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An 85 will just make everything look orange. An 81 series filter will deliver a nice warming effect to the image, with the 81A delivering the weakest effect, and an 81EF delivering the strongest. If you want to see what effect it will have, shoot a few frames with the filter on a digital camera, and the white balance set to "daylight". It won't be exactly the same, but you'll get a good idea of what you're looking at.
Thanks for the suggestion nicholas, using a stills camera is a good idea.
Is it safe to assume that conversely, if using tungsten balanced stock, an 85 combined with an 81EF would give the same desired warming effect as daylight film with an 81EF?
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Hi there,
Will be shooting inside a waterpark this coming weekend on 7201. Would like the results to appear very golden and warm. I was considering the potential of adding an 81EF or 85 filter to warm up the image. Has anyone done this before, what are the results like? Does anyone have any footage they could show me, stories they could tell, or films they could reference which have done so?
Thanks!
Evan
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Good stuff, thanks! They had excellent pricing on the recans the quoted me for. If anybody else still wants to chime in where they get their 16, that would be great!
Try Media Distributors in Hollywood (Burbank, actually). It's been about three years since I bought some, but I got a bunch of recanned 7219 for a very good price, as well as 5129 a year later, and everything was snip tested and had no shifts whatsoever. Here's their contact info:
Los Angeles
4518 W. Vanowen Street, Burbank, CA 91505
24/7: 888-889-3130
Phone: 818-980-9916 Fax: 818-980-9265
la@mediadistributors.com
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I know there have been a couple threads made already that discuss the various places to get short ends and recans, but it seems many of these places have recently shut down or do not offer a large variety (if any) of 16mm short ends/recans. Being that I live in Canada, my main distributor for short ends has always been Certified Film out of Toronto, who are great. But recently they haven't had anything available whatsoever in 16. I stretched them to try and find some film for me and the best price they could get was .25c/ft (might as well by the film brand new for that).
Where do you guys buy your 16mm short ends and recans? Your 35mm short ends and recans? What pricing do you generally get?
Thanks!
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I agree! That would be great. Any chance we could see a comparison, Paul?
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How are you finishing? The colorist will get you to any look you need.
Sure, a colorist can dial in a look, but that has already been discussed and is not the point of this thread. What I'm interested in is coming to further my understanding and respect of cinematography through learning the way various films have been photographed, specifically films that had to create the majority of the look "in camera", like MOPI. Thanks for the advice but again, that is really not the point here.
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I'd really like to revive this thread. While I was given advice, I feel the look of "My Own Private Idaho" is beautiful and something still really worth discussing, as we didn't really discuss how to emulate the look. Someone mentioned the use of filtration, tobacco filters was it? How would one go about getting that specific look? If anybody has any input I'd love to hear, thanks very much
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Hey guys, just chiming in. I'm really enjoying the discussion here and learning a lot. Thanks for all the info.
However, one question which I asked originally still hasn't been answered. "Should I treat my negative any differently (when shooting B+W) than I would with color? Eg. Is it still a good idea to over-expose by 2/3ds of a stop-ish?"
I guess, in general what I should be asking is...
-Does black and white stock (either reversal or negative) react to over and under exposure differently than color negative and reversal stock?
Thanks very much,
Evan
ps
If anybody would like to chime in about various 'color filtration methods' they use when shooting B+W to maintain greater tonality within the frame, I'd be interested to hear.
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In my experience, when doing an HD transfer or a 2k DI true back and white stock looks very different from colour negative converted to black and white. One very noticeable thing is the grain. On a recent project that mixed colour 35mm and 16mm B&W reversal, the B&W looked virtually grainless in HD while the 35mm was actually noticeably more grainy. The 35mm colour was 500asa stock, which was part of the issue, but I find that in general B&W stock is very noticeably sharper and has less noticeable grain.
As far as the 'silvery' look you want I would go with true B&W reversal. This is because black and white stock is not perfectly monochrome from a digital perspective. Meaning it is not always identical values of R, G, and B in each pixel. True black and white stock has a silvery colour to it that has a small amount of hue to it when scanned digitally. That hue can also change from the shadows to the highlights. So just simply averaging the RGB values or channel-mixing or doing anything else that yields pixels with equal RGB values will not look the same as a transfer of true black and white stock. There are ways to make it look more like the hues of B&W stock with look-up tables and stuff but generally it just doesn't look the same as true B&W.
If you want that silvery look then definitely shoot true black and white stock, and preferably reversal which will have an even more silvery look to it than black and white negative. You will also have the added benefit of tighter grain and a noticeable increase in sharpness.
Others have stated that shooting colour and converting to B&W has conveniences and can be easier since there is more you can do in post as opposed to having to really know what you want ahead of time when shooting true B&W, but like everything there is a trade-off in image quality for those conveniences, so you have to decide which method is more practical and/or desirable to you.
Very interesting. Exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks very much,
Evan
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Because the awesome and beloved Plus-X is no longer available I would suggest either Tri-X reversal for 16mm or 5222 for 35mm maybe pulled a stop. There is nothing like actual B&W film and I have shot Plus-X reversal and processed it as negative and then cut it into a 16mm neg cut with Plus-X negative (7231) for a print finish and it cut well.
-Rob-
RIP Plus-X we shall miss thee...
Hi there,
Could you please elaborate why you recommend the reversal for 16mm as opposed to negative?
Why do you mention cross processing?
Why do you feel pulling a stop on the 5222 would be better than processing normally?
Thanks very much, interested to hear your response
Evan
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Evan, give us some more information if you please: film gauge, intended length of production, lab contact. Not to have any money for at least a hundred foot of film appears really meagre to me.
Silvery, glowy? Do you mean high-key lighting? Do you mean brutes and spotlight projectors? Do you have black-and-white cinema in mind that doesn’t exist any more? A dozen workers for lighting alone!
This is nothing to be conjured up digitally. You will have to establish it back yourself, your own silver movie, with heavy cables, dirty arc lamps, reflectors, and sweat.
I am so sorry to disturb your innocent dreams. But if you do it I’ll gladly help you as well as I can.
I'm trying to talk about something that may or may not exist inherently within black and white film stock as opposed to color stock converted to black and white digitally. This isn't something I see the lighting, film stock, or film gauge affecting. I agree with you about creating the look in camera and not via digital effects!
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I can only talk about doing it on video, in which case you are by default shooting colour then desaturating it later. This is actually quite nice, because it means you can choose a colour channel in post and have in effect variable colour filtration, and a variable degree of colour filtration.
When I did it, we were producing the filmed inserts for a stage production of Singing in the Rain, so it was all very much hyper-reality and probably much more use of weave and flicker than would really have been evident in first-run theatrical exhibition circa 1930.
You can see a few seconds of it at the head of my post reel.
As far as I can recall all we did was crush the blacks out a bit and add some highlight glow. It was shot with lots of hard light, partly as a nod to historical realism and partly to get separation you might otherwise try to do with colour. It also very much protects highlights, in full knowledge of the intended postproduction route, but then it was video, and you won't have that problem so much on film.
P
Hey Phil,
The black and white shot you did which you reference looks really great. Very similar look wise to what I'm trying to attain. Interesting to know it was shot originally as color, I wouldn't ever have guessed. Thanks for the input.
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Ansel Adams stated "Expose for the Shadows". See: http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00SQxk if you want to read about the difference between this age old "Black and White adage" and Digital sensors. It's quite interesting!
Now, the question is, are you shooting reversal or negative? You have only a few choices either way. 5222 Double-X from Kodak is their negative film. 5222 being true black and white requires development in.. R-96 I believe? You may want to check around and see which labs can do 16/35mm black and white negative.
Reversal is different, and something I have no experience with, but I have seen some amazing results.
Now, from my personal experience, shooting color and converting it leaves the contrast lacking. Basically you are fully de-saturating the image, leave nothing but grey scale. You then have to go in and add contrast (when shooting color negative) or at least I did. The good thing about shooting color neg and doing a B&W post conversion is that, in the event you WANT to, you will have the color negative available, should you need color footage later.
If you use true black and white negative, you won't have that color information ever. That might be something you want to think about.
One last thing to think about is stock cost, if that is an issue. 5222 (35mm) x 1000' is about $350. 7222 (16mm) x 400' is $78.
Reversal is marginally more expensive but only comes in 16mm (or Super8).
Sorry, I tend to ramble.
Hope that helps!
Hi John,
Thanks for the reply.
Converting to black and white and adding contrast in post does not sound like a major issue at all to me. What does worry me though, is what (if any) the differences would be between shooting real black and white VS doing the color conversion. Am i going to be able to attain a more silvery, glowy image through true black and white? Would shooting reversal over negative alter these results? These are things I'm unsure of, and, unfortunately, don't have the money to test myself.
Anybody like to chime in? Thanks!
Renting In NY
in Off Topic
Posted
Du-All looks like an incredible option for film shoots. Wish I could convert the producer to go with the 35-III and S4's instead of the EPIC and RPP's :(
Thanks for the suggestions everyone