Steven Boldt

Hey guys, sorry to drag the board down, just wondered if you'd mind giving a newbie some direction. Just getting into Super 8 filmmaking with my 2 mint Canon 814s and I wanna get started off on the right foot. Figured it would be better to ask the pros for advice than hit up google. Any links you guys could provide to get me up to speed quickly on basic techniques for lighting/814 film/shooting, etc. (and 814 specific if applicable)? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

Here's a good site for all around info on super 8

http://www.super8data.com/

Try Super8man and filmshooting.com. There's lot's of info here too.

I have some jittery film back from the lab. Now I want to stabilize it in post digitally. What is the best way to do it? With Motion I can see a slight loss of sharpness. Is there any better program to do this? Which one? I am using an Imac.

 

Best regards

 

Paul

I haven't watched this in a while but it could be usefull. I believe you can control the amount of stabilization you want.

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial/stabilize_shaky_footage/

http://www.freesound.org/

It's an amazing site.

Hi all.

 

I recently acquired a Sankyo Super CME 1100 super 8 camera and was wondering if anyone has any experience with this unit. I haven't used it yet, but it looks to be a great camera, even came with the original box, lens hood, and manual. Looks like it will read the new Ektachrome 100D film too which is great! Any help would be appreciated!

 

-photoboy

You might find some info here and it should read all the films. I've heard good things about it.

http://www.super8data.com/

You can't outsmart or outthink a super-8 camera. You put a cartridge in it and shoot it. Assuming the 310 has either manual exposure or an exposure button that locks the exposure, you can work around the issue. First, you have to identify what the issue is, and that is only done by shooting a roll.

 

When I went to college a long time ago, I helfped start a film and video production club called ACTION!

I made it a point of one shooting one cartridge of super-8 film over the weekend, bringing it into the local kodak dealer on Monday, getting it back on Thursday, and showing it at our Friday meetings. I did this every week one semester.

 

I have trouble understanding why people aren't willing to shoot test rolls? Is the cost? Digital video costs A LOT MORE to get into, then you can save money by shooting hours of footage that you may or may not ever edit. But on the front end, one super-8 cartridge and processing is much much cheaper than any other format out there.

Excellent advice about shooting test rolls Alessandro. Just write down your settings and the composition of the shot for every single shot you take.

As far as the AF, I believe all Super 8 cameras use this to mean auto focus.

I think good lighting makes a bigger difference than the type of film you use. I just did a project and used both, plus-x for outside and tri-x for inside. Nobody noticed. The only discernable difference was between the shots that were well-lit and those that were not.

 

But to answer your question, I do not think there is a way to make tri-x look like plus-x, since it comes down to the difference in the size of the grains. Science won't allow it.

I just shot some Tri-X and Plus-X. I'm no expert but I don't see how Tri-X can be made to look like Plus-X except for reducing the grain with a touch of gausian blur and reducing the contrast after digitizing.

I'm going to try some of the new Ectachrome 100D and convert to B&W digitally to see the results.

I wonder how much longer Plus-X will be processed by the labs. Too bad we only have 1 B&W reversal stock now.

Well, no we don't 'wonder' - we speak techno-babble and economics and make predictions based on those discussions :rolleyes:

 

But reality is that answer was only half assed - I'm part with the film isn't dead crew myself ! - I'm building a bellows for a 11x14" ULF camera at the moment :lol:

The original poster was asking all Super 8 users what they thought of a new Super 8 camera. I was suggesting that for amateurs the problem is in the cost of telecine. We'll use any camera that works. I like the Kodak M4's.

As usual we're left out of the discussion even though Super 8 is a consumer format.

Anytime a topic like this comes up most of you guys go off into techno-babble or economics. And you wonder why film is dying out?

"One of the main reason that film is dying off is that for the amateur/semi-professional

the cost is almost way too much...and the steps needed are too crazy/back alley/dealing with snobs.."

That about sizes it up.

I can offer some perspective from the hobbiest.

Keep it real simple. Follow up on the Kodak M2-M4 designs. For someone like me you can't beat auto-focus. 18 and 24fps is great but not a big deal.

The only way to get people hooked on film to begin with is to give them the experience of shooting and projecting the film. This is where institutions failed. In film school we sat around talking film and romanticizing it. I figured to hell with this. I dropped out and bought my own stuff.

I don't see how you can address problems with available cameras without addressing the whole process. Shoot the film, have it developed and project it. From there most people will want to telecine it and that might be the bigger problem as far as cost and complexity.

For the pros. What is it you want to get out of Super 8?

I forgot to say, this footage looks very good. Nice colors and detail.

I shot a roll of Tri-X and one of Plus-X with different ND Filters on the front lenses of an M2 and an M4. I wrote down the settings for every shot. I thought it would be easier to do some trial and error than to try and make sense of the notching system and constant changes in Kodak films. I'll see the results in a few days.

Didn't mean to high-jack this thread but it seemed related.

Hi Art,

 

That makes sense-- but it also means their new data sheet is totally wrong, and another source of confusion!

 

The SMPTE protocol for daylight 100 ASA super 8 is to speed-notch it at the 160T/100D indice, and then use a notchless cartridge to key it down to the 100 without any possibility of using the internal 85 filter. The cartridge pushes in the filter pin, which both disables the filter permanently and also sets the meter to the lower ASA rating for that particular speed-notch size.

 

I'm really glad Kodak is doing it this way-- Wittner supposedly speed-notches it at 100T/64D, which makes it easy to spoil a roll by accidentally leaving in the filter. On some cameras, too, toggling the filter switch to daylight will also set the meter to the lower ASA, which would be 64.

 

Kodak doesn't supply empty cartridges in notchless form, so maybe the other companies have no choice but to do it this way. But it sure creates a hassle. Also, many more cameras will do the 160T/100D thing than will read the unusual 100T speed indice-- which was used only once in the past, I believe, by Ansco, and only for a year or so back in the late 60s.

 

By the way, Kodak was originally planning their first S8 high-speed film to be 100ASA, but they later changed their mind and made it 160-- which is the reason why their entry M4 camera will read both 40 and 100.

 

So in the end, any SMPTE compliant camera that will read the new Plus-X correctly will also be able to read E100D without any problem. That's good to know-- thanks for being in the vanguard here!

Jim, the M4 will read 40 and 100?

It's a shame to see this happen in the film world. Analog audio is a different story. It's very much alive.

I think I can go direct to computer, s-video out from the projector to a Canopus, firewire into the computer. I'm trying to get some info on the Canopus and Virtualdub forums about possible Vista issues.

Should give Tobin Cinema a call, instead of email, and see what they have to say.

I checked with Clive but he didn't have a recommendation as far as a minidv recorder and he hasn't used a Canopus. I'm working with a small budget so I wanted to get a handle on the total price of everything I will need. I haven't ordered the Telecine unit yet but very soon hopefully. The Tobin systems come with cameras built in so I don't see how lenses would be an issue.The real problem is I can't afford an underscanned monitor so I will have to make due without. This is for personal use and not commercial.

What would be a suitable MiniDV recorder to use with a Tobin Telecine unit? My budget is about $500 dollars. What would be the advantages of using something like a Sony GV series Video Walkman as opposed to a Canopus?

I have a couple rolls of Tri-X to use up too. I'll give it a try in the M2 since it's manual exposure only. I'm guessing it will overexpose by 1 and 1/3 f-stop. The only way I'm going to learn is to take detailed notes of every single shot I take. I guess that's why people do bracketing.

Focusing is a whole other issue and that's one of the reasons I wanted to give the fixed focus Kodaks a try. My eyes aren't so great and I can't seem to set the diopter properly on my other cameras that have split image using the conventional method of setting to infinity etc... I tried going by distance, as in setting the focus to say 15 meters, zooming in and then setting the diopter. This seemed to work but I have to read up on it some more.

Thanks for all the info Jim. I have a lot to think about. I'm going to stick with the reversal films for now as I'm confused enough as it is. :unsure:

By the way, I got the service manuals for the Kodaks which cleared up a few things-except where, exactly, the columator and brushes for the motor should be lubricated.

Nice, almost noir look to it. Had a lot of suspense and the music stayed out of the way.

Doing the notch hack for Plus-x on the M4 looks very simple. I saw a video of someone doing it. Also, your right, using the color film on the M2 would be simpler than trying to deal with it on the M4. I need to stop buying cheap cameras (2 for $1 dollar for the Kodaks) and get a light meter :o .

Thanks for the tips!

By the way, KRT scratch and haze remover worked like a charm to clean these up.

Hi Steven,

My name is Moises Perez, I'm a Super8 enthusiast. I'm always looking for cameras to modify, this camera of yours sound like a good candidate for it. I'd to give it a try. Please e-mail me with the details at this address: reachmoy@netzero.net.

I sent you an email Moises. I'm in the US(Wisconsin) by the way.

Steve

Thanks Stephen. I'm still trying to figure out how to expose the Plus-X and Tri-X in these which means getting them down to ASA 25. I'll try everything, external meter,calculation, ND filters, etc.... These are going to be fun and they're easy to work on-so far :rolleyes: .

It's a shame about the gears turning to mush on the models after the M6.

I wonder if the lens on these is plastic. Everything along the view-finder is.

I probably botched the Super beyond being worthy of repair trying to take it apart. Also, the lens has a lot of play in it and I understand this is a common problem on these. I'll probably give the Super away if someone wants to spring for the shipping charges. It came with some sort of accessories. As a whole, it looks like the gate of the Leicina may have been machined/manufactured to tighter tolerancences than is normal but I could be wrong. If costs a fortune to do that.

I'm pretty sure the gate has a teflon coating. Don't know if that helps image stabilty but it certainly wouldn't hurt. ;) It is interesting.

I got a Leica Special a while back that was DOA. I took the gate off recently and it looks like it's coated with teflon. Is this common to all Leicas and are these cameras known for steady images? If that's the case I'm going to see if a place called "blackicecoatings" can do a teflon job on a couple of film gates for me. I noticed there's very little play side to side with the Leica gate but that's also true of some cheap cameras too.

Has anyone tried this?

Edit;

The Leica is a Super, not a Special.

I picked up two Kodak Super 8's on ebay, an M2 and an M4. Both were filthy and the M2 had a bad contact but they both seem to function now. I have a few questions about these. Can anyone tell me how to deal with the reversal films in these? Can I just set the ISO/ASA on an external meter for the manual-exposure-only M2 and go by that? Info at Kodak say's "-2/3 f stop" for the Ektachrome 64T. Does this mean 2/3 more open or 2/3 closed down? Both these cameras are 25/40 only if that helps. I shoot mostly B and W so that will be another problem trying to figure that out.

My other cameras read the reversals correctly so this is all a bit confusing.

Also. which way is the PX13 exposure battery supposed to face in the M4? I don't have a manual for the M4.

Thanks,

Steve