Oron Cohen

 

I want the highest quality despite the mess :) no pain no gain .. right ?? ;)

The technology has evolved, the lenses I mentioned like Alura, angie etc, are sharper, almost as fast or faster, lighter, better CA, less fall off, so what are you gaining for using those Vari-Primes? If they were that good they would have come out with a V2 for them and people would have gone crazy on them on the second hand market, there is a reason why they are not in demand.

At the time those lenses came out, they were the first of it's kind, things have changed since then, and they are now history.

Again, the only reason to use them, is if you tested them for a particular project against other lenses and decided that from some reason you like the look..

 

-Many accuse them for their weight .. But if you compare (for example) Master Primes it's not a big deal ...

The VP1 16-30 weights 4.4 kg and the Master Prime 21mm weights 2.4 kg !!! Also in NOWADAYS with the digital cameras weight isn't a problem (even for steadys)

 

 

-Also isn't a shame that the OLDEREST Standards Primes 2.1 are in almost in every rental house and VP's are so rare ??

The Standard are lovely lenses, beautiful classic look, cheap, very small and lightweight and very sharp wide open. make much more sense the 3 mega monsters that you need to swap all day.. :-D

Actually B&H are having a sale now for the Panasonic GH4 including the V-Log add on for on 1K USD. Add a Metabones Canon EF adapter, a 17-50 or 24-105 (look at B&H used section) lens and Rode mic, and you'll have a workable package for around 2K ish.

Or for around 3K including a lens get a used C100 markII + lens , only down side it's only 1080p, but it's a wonderful video camera with all the bonuses you want for a video camera, like XLR's input, good in camera mic, auto focus, native EF mount, exposure and focus tools and very nice to handle in a documentary situation. Although it's only 1080p, the image is very sharp and crisp, and I did some test blowing it up to 4K it's still look nice.

Just my 2c.

Interested in finding an Arri SR2 super 16mm or SR3 High Speed in good condition.

 

 

Hi, I've sent you a pm.

I'm really looking forward to see this one! Hopefully I'll watch it on 70mm. Recently watched Kubrick 2001 on 70mm and was blown away, also watched Interstellar on 70mm IMAX and loved the experience (but not so much the cuts to 35mm).

I'm on a short film (freebie for my reel) where the director has been rewriting the story every time he sees a new location. Now he wants a dolly shot in littered woods this weekend and we've not pre-arranged the proper gear for such a shot. It's a shame because the story has potential (written by the director), but the captain of the ship is really green.

Sorry to vent. Sometimes I want to go be a director just so I can be the kind of director a DP wants to work with. *headdesk*

This is tricky, because we don't know how much you guys talked before hand. Did you ask the director how he works or plan to work? did you made a small test shoot before hand? did you discussed how to you both see each other working together? did you discussed in depth the visual style of the film?

If the answer to some of the questions is NO, so I believe you should suck it up and learn that next time you will, as you can't just tell him he is not doing what you planned (many directors work in the way you describe, like Coppola on apocalypse now).

However the answer to all the questions is YES, you should stop doing what he asks, take him for a chat and discuss with him what's going on and why his he doing what he's doing, especially if you feel it will heart the visual style of the film. If the answers don't satisfy you you can place your red line there, and say you're not going to do it (this is an extreme example though). usually you can sort something out, if you listen carefully to the director.

This is my perspective of course, sure people have more to say.

Totally agree with what everyone said here.

To the OP: You said it yourself in the beginning, you haven't done much cinema filming, people get confused and think shooting a music video or a corporate film it's the same thing as shooting a film, so guess what: it's 100% NOT. Cinema is an art form, you're creating a language, something that should be a one of kind creation aiming to tell a specific story, the all working process and approach is different and you need to tune your mind to a different channel when you're doing a film.

My other note will be that, as opposed to commercial work, filmmaking usually needs more then just a working relationship, you need to have a human connection with the people you work with, it's more intimate..I'll quote from the end of this great article with Larry Smith: https://www.theasc.com/magazine/oct99/sword/pg1.htm

"Reflecting upon his collaboration with the one of cinema’s greatest directors, Smith concludes, "Working with Stanley was a great privilege, and I’m very thankful that I met him and got that chance. However, I don’t think my lasting memories of him will necessarily relate to our interactions on the set. The moments I’ll always remember will be those times when we’d be in his office or at the house, drinking some coffee and talking about cricket, football or movies. Stanley had a great sense of humor, and he always had this mischievous little twinkle in his eyes. That’s what I’ll miss the most."

Brenton, you write on your info "other", could you please specify what do you? If you are a Cinematographer or want to become one, you do need to know those things on a basic level I feel, as your AC will sort out camera cables etc anyway.

a few methods to learn about connectors:

1) Go and look at videos from companies making accessories like Wooden Camera for example, they have a tone of videos on youtube showing different methods of connecting things, Arri have some good videos as well and Abel Cine and I'm sure there are more.

2) If possible go to a local rental house and ask them either to pay for a few hours of explaining or even work for them as an intern for a few days in the camera department, learning the equipment .

3) look for a 1st AC that does TV or fiction and ask him if he got a shoot you could join even free or for very low wage.

Hope it helps.

I don't want to start a long discussion here, but from real life experience on sets, BM is not a factor in pro environment, the usual suspects are (at the moment): Arri, RED and Sony F5/F55 and I really think Panasonic Varicam should be used more as it looks amazing! There are reasons why pros prefer those cameras.

As for Raven, Raven is giving you a LOT of what Weapon are giving you, which is a 30-50K camera. Also, r3d is now native for most editing systems and you don't need a super powerful computer to edit it(but it does need to be powerful), as the editing software just drop the quality for playback or you could shoot now prores LT/DNXhd combine with RAW in camera.

On a side note, I see you are a Cinematographer, why do you want to buy a camera?

In any case if you do decide buying, in Raven price range, I'll say, it doesn't have any real competition for cinema use. I do think that if you are on a very tight budget, Scarlet-X is a nice camera for half the price.

Last thing: RENT before you buy! :-)

p.s: you can shoot a feature film on 4K 7:1 or 8:1 on well lit scenes easy. I'd say including backups you'll need around 12TB-16TB per a film.

5 favorites that I don't think I have seen on this thread that I can think of:

 

Nosferatu (technically on David's big list)

Detour

Murder, My Sweet (one of my favorite scenes of all time)

Alphaville

Sunset Boulevard

I was actually torn about leaving Sunset Boulevard and Alphaville out, great picks!

5 films is not much :) so just films from the top of my head and that I really like the Cinematography in them, but there are so many more!

- Ivan’s Childhood

- The Night of the Hunter

- Vivre Sa Vie

- Tokyo Story

- Europa

Hey Brenton,

I think a budget will help, "not huge" isn't clear enough, for me, an inexpensive PL super16 lens is around 3-4K USD at least.

If it was me, I'll suggest one of the Canon zooms, like the 8-64 or the 11.5-138 , those are for most part sharp, and you could actually shoot a film with one, I would prefer it over primes which are quite expensive on super16 and will limit you as you probably don't have a budget for a set, so you will be stuck with one or two focal length.

Another option is the G.L optics PL conversion lenses, they have a Tokina 11-16 and 16-28 PL lenses as well as Sigma 18-35 PL, all of them are useful focal lengths for super16 and you could use them later down the road with super35 cameras.

He really does look so impeccable and gentlemanly, which only contributes to this impression he gives off. It’s as if he’s dressed for an evening stroll on the Riviera or or as a master of a grand estate for an afternoon on the veranda or something. Certainly a change from baseball caps and sweatshirts.

Storaro is known for being elegant dresser, I still remember the behind the scenes of Apocalypse Now and how well dressed he was in the middle of the jungle :) he got Italian class.

 

Just to clarify, I thought Stuart really hit the nail on the head with this description. I have been on all kinds of sets in the UK. I used to work on student films up North on a regular basis. I've been on the set of a large BBC production. I've been on the sets of loads of no-budget and Ultra Low budget movies and never once have I seen a c-stand in use. I seem to remember there were some on the truck for "Rock 'N Rolla" the Guy Ritchie movie (I wasn't on set for that) but that would be a very high budget movie in the UK outside of the Hollywood Studio films that shoot here.

 

In any case I've never been able to understand the constant absence of c-stands but now that Stuart describes them in the way he just did it all makes sense.

 

Stuart describes setting multiple flags,frames and nets in a tight space but while we definitely have the tight space in the UK, it's rare that you see people get into anything too complicated with flags, frames or nets. You will tend to see something more like one large diffusion frame or possibly bounce (assuming they aren't bouncing a 2K off the ceiling). As the sets get bigger this kind of thing tends to get scaled up with even larger frames and bigger light fixtures on hydraulic stands. The further you go upwards in budget the more it tends to become large fixtures and big frames. There might sometimes be a small amount of flags used.

 

For myself when I'm involved in the cinematography it tends to be on scary low budget stuff where I'm providing a lot of equipment. I should clarify there, I don't mean I'm providing a lot of actual equipment, I just mean I'm providing most of the equipment the production has access to, which isn't a lot. I might be more inclined to flag off light or do something complicated in a tight space with flags and diffusion and gels etc. However I should note that when I say flags I mean cardboard, and when I talk about diffusion it's usually somewhat free hanging (on the upside it doesn't get blown over in a breeze). These days I have real gels which I am so thankful for. For me having a range of lighting gel on hand is a really basic requirement.

 

Getting back to what Stuart described. If you aren't doing that much with flags and nets etc, then a combo stand will be way more useful because it will be more secure and as I already described, the larger you go in the UK the more it is about large fixtures and big frames.

 

So why is this? I think it's a whole bunch of stuff but mostly it comes down to economics and budget. I think on the cheaper TV stuff there just isn't the time to set a bunch of flags and nets and use a range of smaller fixtures etc and so a style has evolved that obliviates the need for all that. It thus quickly becomes about large punchy lights and big frames. If something more controlled is needed it will tend to be a smaller fixture and some black wrap integrated in some way into the landscape of large punchy lights and big frames. This means in theory that everything can go much faster although in my experience of low end UK TV, there seems to be a huge amount of time and effort wasted on indecision and a lot of the people on set seem like they are bored with their job and can't wait till it is all over. I've been shocked by what I have seen on BBC sets especially although I have experienced too small a sample to make a realistic judgment on that.

 

On tiny low budget stuff it tends to be a lot of smaller fixtures because that is what is available and there is no generator etc.

In this context there is maybe more flagging and nets etc etc, or at least there is when I'm doing this stuff but at the same time there is no real budget for anything so it's more of a cardboard and gaffa tape affair. Some c-stands might be really useful to me, but even if I had them, I would have the issue of transporting them (unless it was a studio based shoot I guess). So even for me, combo stands would probably make more sense, especially if you are limited in what you have available already.

 

It was only when Stuart wrote what he did that I suddenly realised that c-stands are rarely needed in the UK with a few exceptions. It thus makes sense that I have rarely seen them in real life and it might also answer why members of the BSC might be concerned about the c-stands that are available to them because BSC members might be a bit out of step with the greater industry.

 

This has long been a bit of a mystery to me because if I had a proper budget then I might like to have access to some c-stands... but then I'm used to working with tiny budgets and multiple tiny fixtures with no generator whereas people with a budget aren't working in that way for the most part.

 

Hope that's all clear. Might be hard for those of you outside of the UK to get your head round but it does make sense.

 

Freya

I respect what you're saying Freya, but honestly I don't understand where you get this? as I commented before, I was absolutely certain you are being sarcastic in the beginning saying C-stand are not used in the UK.

I could understand why they will be less C-stands or no stands on an ultra low budget shoot, that's mainly due to the fact that many people in London are amateurs that claim that they know what they're doing and they just don't know how to use lights if they did they would have rented some c-stands, sand bags and flags as its really cheap to rent and make it all the difference, are you're suppose to cut and shape light shooting interiors?

On TV it's different, TV lighting (like BBC you mentioned) could be very different then proper film lighting in many ways, it really depends on the show.

From my experience, on every professional film shoot or drama shoot in the UK, US, France or anywhere else, they will be a bunch of C-stands waiting or used at any given time.

 

I was led to believe that c-stands were a must have item but now I finally understand why they are so rare in the UK.

Thanks Stuart! :)

C-stand rare in the UK? what? are you being sarcastic?

I'd love to see the look on panalux's collective face if some indie filmmaker turned up just wanting gels!

Great people at Panalux actually, better to send them an email or phone them first. they always try to help indie filmmakers. It's a business and in the end of the day you pay with same money for the gels plus, there is always the chance you be back for bigger shoots. everyone start somewhere.

I've got my first set of redhead lights (not the cheapo ebay ones) - wanting to start experimenting with diffusing, flagging, bouncing etc.

I've been looking around for somewhere to buy diffusion sheets in the UK but struggling to find somewhere that seems legit and sells everything.

Can anyone advise?

Also, if anyone has some advice or links to videos to help me build my own diffusion frames, that would be sweet.

There plenty of places to buy gels in London. one is http://www.directphotographic.co.uk/consumables/lightinggels.asp also many rental houses stock them, a few months ago a production I was on bought gels from http://www.pixipixel.com in shoreditch. I also saw my gaffer buy some from http://www.panalux.biz london. there are many many more.

You usually buy them buy foot or meter or buy per a roll.

Hope it helps.

Oron.

It's good that more small size 4K cameras are out there. I personally don't like the Panasonic look, it's all look to me like the old DVX100 look with a super35 depth of field and more resolution, very video like, I know it's subjective, but at this price point for people that rent cameras, I can hardly see this camera go out on jobs, as you could hire an EPIC Dragon or Arri Amira/Alexa Classic for the same price or less not to Mention C300 Mark II or Sony F5/F55.

It will appeal to people that REALLY like the Panasonic look, I'm sure there are a few, but in most of the world it's hard to see this sell.

For an owner/operator that wants to buy, it might make more sense, if he was considering buying something like F55, but even then, you can get a Scarlet-W full package including media and v-lock batteries for the same price or get the Sony F5+Sony A7sII deal or C300 mark II and save almost 10K.

Would be interesting to hear what people are thinking about those varicam here?

What camera do you have? some PL lenses are not meant for film cameras.

You can get LOMO PL lenses, many of my friends thats started out in the rental business started out with a set of LOMO's, if you can add more money you can get a cheap zoom lens like the RED 17-50 for 3.5K or Sigma 18-35 rehoused by GL optics for about the same.

You could also try and find the v1 Sony PL lenses that where made for the F3, they go very cheap.

I like the LOMO's as they have a vintage look, so you even if later on you move to modern looking glass, it's always nice to keep when you want the soft, vintage look with some breathing and flaring.

I would definitely go for the reversal film stock, you can buy the Wittner in Europe from Andec Film lab I think, and in the US you can get it from Spectra Film and video under the name Agfachrome and probably there are other places that sell it.

 

What do you mean by "regular Kino?"...

They one that I linked to and DMX as well (I think) not the DIVA, as you can not use the bulbs on the DIVA without the housing, there are few more difference, google it and you find a lot more info I'm sure.

I think for film work you want regular kino not a DIVA as they are more flexible, you can take the tubes out and use them even without the housing which could be very useful sometimes, also they colour temperature on the DIVA usually look off when you try to change it...at least the ones I used, I think DIVA are great for documentary interviews not film work an I used them a lot for that.

Hi Bill,

You said you never used a Kino but you want to buy one, why?

I think maybe it's better to rent a Kino and use it first, then see if it's useful for you. If you work as DOP it's rarely that you'll use 1 Kino on set, more like a truck of lights or at least a small van :-)

I agree with the others though, you should just get the regular 4f 4 bank option+a soft case, you can get one including the ballast from various places, also, I'll check with all the local rental houses, they sometimes have used ones for sell in reduced price and they will include the tubes, so you pay about half, and those lights lasts for a very long time.

here is a link for the full kit from B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/258308-REG/Kino_Flo_SYS_4804_S120_4Bank_4_Fluorescent_One.html

soft case: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/258668-REG/Kino_Flo_BAG_401_BAG_401_Black.html/pageID/accessory

p.s - If you do get a "Kino" light, get the Kino and don't go close to the other makes, it's not worth it as they're not on par, it's not like with HMI's and some other lights which you have GOOD alternatives.

a few things:

- 5D sensor is Vistavision size so way bigger than traditional super35mm, so you can use more tele lenses to shoot interviews etc(80mm is like 50mm on super35), any chance you could get longer lens, like 70-200? that might be easier than getting a filter and will reduce your dof even if your'e shooting on F11.

- when you shoot outdoors try to film your subject in the shade as much as possible.

- depends one what kind of motion you have in the shot, for certain situations you could get away with using higher shutter speeds like 200 instead of 50, that will drop a couple of stops from your exposure.

- use lower ISO settings possible. I think it's 100ISO on 5D markIII

- Try to get any kind of big flag to block the sun and ask someone to hold it while doing interviews (if the sun is too strong on the subject.)

This is one of the best super8 cameras ever made to my opinion, I have this camera and never had this issue.

Did you set the main switch knob to "T" when the handle is folded? because if you leave the main switch knob on "ON" mode the camera won't roll....