dm24ig

So what were the results of your lens tests?

Did the "dogleg" cover super16mm?

For my test I used a Century 1" lens and a Nikon 50mm Lens with a C-mount adapter, both covered the super-16 frame. I have yet to test any 'dogleg' zooms.

- Derek

Just looking at an old Bell and Howell 70 DR.Just glancing on at the gate and sprockets, I don't see that conversion to S 16 would be as hateful on one of these as other cameras, such as an Arri S.I also know that a 35mm Bell and Howell Eyemo can be converted to reflex viewing.Is it safe to assume that the 16mm little brother is convertable to reflex?

Convert to S16 - Yes. Reflex - Probably not. As was mentioned before, a lens with a dogleg viewfinder will work, maybe a pan cinor or and old angenieux zoom if you want some type of reflex. I successfully converting a DR to super16 last year, the gate was easy to do, you'll also have to file away alot of the metal in front to right. You'll also need to find some lenses that will cover super-16 and then some, as the lens is not being recentered, to make sure it covers the frame.

I put together a little step by step page on how i did the conversion, not very professional, but it worked:

http://www.derekmarazzo.com/filmo.htm

Here's a link to the old forum discussion regarding the Filmo:

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...wtopic=3790&hl=

- Derek

Rodney,

Some photos of the broken filmo and parts...

http://www.derekmarazzo.com/70dr/parts.html

- Derek

Rodney,

I do have a 70-DR, its a little in pieces, broken and rusted out on the inside. The front turret is off, but I do have the screws to put it back on (film gate is attached to it). The sprockets acutally are in pretty good shape and do not look affected by the rust around the other parts - I'm assuming they're stainless steel, same goes for the gate. The cover is missing one of the locking knobs and its pretty broken up to the point that you cannot close it.

Anyway, If you're looking for parts to get you're 70-DA to single perf, this would be ideal. I haven't taken apart the sprockets area, but it does seem that taking a couple of screws off is all you need to do - I could be wrong, but I don't see the job becoming too involved. I think most of the filmos' basic parts are interchangeable - they didn't mess with the core design of these cameras through the various models.

I'm going to take some photos when I get a chance today and post a link for you to look at if you're interested. let me know.

- Derek

The 70-DR is single perf. You may have an earlier model other than the DR.

I might have a broken DR at home that I could part with for a reasonable price, if you're interested in pulling the parts you need to get you cam to single perf.

I've never done this, but it might not be that hard to do. I'll post again tomorrow to let you know if its a DR or other single perf model.

- Derek

Thanks for the replies. I haven't been using my 16mm camera as of late and thought I could use those 16mm lenses for something other than collecting dust. Theres something I hate about the mini-dv's auto fuctions and manually adusting things as well. I'd rather just adjust the lens to get what I'm looking for - this is the reason for wanting to use the c-mount lenses over the built in mini-dv lens.

-DM

I've been playing around with an idea of shooting video with a so called "hi-res" 480 tv lines ccd camera I have that accpets c/cs mounts. Since I have a number of c-mount lenses for 16mm film cameras, I thought I might test these out with the cctv camera and then playing with some film look Premire plugins such as cinemotion to give it a film look. The camera has a BNC connector which I will connect to my mini-dv cam using a very short BNC to S-video cable, and then transfer the recorded footage to pc.

Anyone here played with this idea before?

- DM

I've been playing around with an idea of shooting video with a so called "hi-res" 480 tv lines ccd camera I have that accpets c/cs mounts. Since I have a number of c-mount lenses for 16mm film cameras, I thought I might test these out with the cctv camera and then playing with some film look Premire plugins such as cinemotion to give it a film look. The camera has a BNC connector which I will connect to my mini-dv cam using a very short BNC to S-video cable, and then transfer the recorded footage to pc.

Anyone here played with this idea before?

- DM

Any update so far?  Very interested to see your test results...  Thanks for keeping us informed as you experiment, very helpful!

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I plan on shooting test shots this weekend if I can get away from the kids for an hour or so. I've been waiting for a c-mount nikon adapter to show up and it finally arrived yesterday.

After shooting, I'd like to get an all-in-one processing/prep/telecine to avi package for a 100' roll. Anyone know who would offer this service (Cheap)???

On a side note, I put a nikon lens on the new adapter but haven't a clue how to get the thing off, it feels like its just stuck on there. anyone?

- Derek

I built one using a Meade ETX prism and 25mm eyepiece.

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Thanks, I'll look into that. I just found a screw that fits into where the zoom lever goes (I'm missing that too). At least I can use the lever now, a little hard though, but I could make something that will work easily.

-Derek

http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/...9926c35ca0e8831

 

There is the thread.

 

I've posted pictures of instructions to load magazines, a focus finder, and pictures of a home made core winder. 9 pictures in all.

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Thats a nice winder - Think I'll try to make one of those. I have 2 50' film rools in the fridge waiting to be used with my B&H 200ee.

Thanks,

Derek

Thanks for the picture.

There is a thread on filmshooting about this topic where I posted how to make a core spinner. AND the 50 foot article that was on ftp filmshooting tells a little about a core loader. If you don't have a copy let me know and I'll give you the address.

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ok, thanks, I'll look for the thread. I'll let you know if I can't find it.

- Derek

I have one of these, but no viewfinder attachment. I saw somewhere that I could use a telescope viewfinder, but I'm not sure what the original specs are for the lens. Dows anyone know what size finder would fit into the pan cinor?

- Derek

Kodak sells 2R PlusX reversal that could be used in the mags. I plan on getting some of that.

 

I could use the instructions if you can find them.

 

Michael Carter

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Here's the photo of the correct film path of the mag:

http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/galler...m2/magazinepath

You need to do this in complete darkness. I just got a changing bag and have been practicing with some old double perf film - I almost have it down. The only problem I envision is I think the 50' film I have is supply on its own core, so I'll have to get the film onto the magazine's supplied core to use it. Since I won't be able to see exactly what this looks like on the unexposed film, it may be tricky. Anyone know how to transfer a roll of film onto another core in total darkness/changing bag?

- Derek

I've bought some of these old Alan Gordon magazines, from both Alan Gordon and Java  Photo.  Generally they work fine. If your camera makes weird noises you may have to pull the magazine and manually advance the film in the gate a little in order to get it to catch.

 

I think these little magazine cameras are great, and they are cheap as dirt on eBay. The Bell & Howell 200's are the civilian version of WWII gun cameras used in fighter planes. They are the smallest 16mm cameras you're likely to find, and very sturdy. Drop it? Just pick it up, dust it off and keep shooting. They are Regular 16mm only, but you can buy a hundred of these for the price of an Ikonoscop.

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I own a B&H 200ee which is a nice solid little camera. I never shot any film on it, but I do have 10 empty mags that I was going to attempt to load myself. Keep in mind that these magazine use double perf only film, which is getting harder and harder to come by. I have some photos of the film path and notes on how to do this somewhere if anyone needs them. I considered buying some already loaded mags but I just can't justify the price.

So I looked over my camera last night while looking over the pdf the NCSProducts so generously supplied. I'm still confused about the section about adjusting the aperture plate. As I was looking thru the pdf, I came across a mention of the 'gate plate' and began to realize something (at least this is my guess) - the aperture plate is in front of the gate plate. I was thinking they were the same thing. I could be wrong, but since I only removed the gate plate to file down the new size, I probably shouldn't worry about whether the aperture plate is misaligned.

I do have a issue with the shutter. The new opening I created may be a bit too wide than needed. As I look at the camera running I can see the shutter blade seems to just about cover the new super-16 frame, but does not cover the width of my new opening. I'm thinking this may be a problem with light leaking - I will find out very soon after my test run. I wonder if there is a way to extend the shutter blade.

- Derek

NCSProducts - Thanks for uploading the manual, it's very similar to mine.

 

What is the difference between the Filmo & Eyemo mechanism that you can't do single frame with a Filmo?

 

dm24ig - Look at Section 20, about page 15 in the manual, entitled "Adjusting the aperture plate". My guess is the tool is necessary to ensure that the gate is square and normal to the film path. If it's maladjusted you may see the gate is cock-eyed on the exposed film.

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I see, thanks. I'm planning on shooting a little later this week, and hopefully the plate is where it should be. I must say I'm a little confused because the aperture plate has 4 screws and didn't seem like it had room for adjusting the position, so I simply placed the plate in with the other parts and screwed them in. I'll take a closer look tonight. Since I don't have or probably could never obtain the tool, I may be stuck with just alot of trial and error.

- Derek

Looks good to me!  B)

I just posted a Filmo repair manual on the NCS Manuals page

The text is mangled but many of the pics are fine: Filmo Repair Manual

 

On semi-related news, the Revolution Eyemo sync motor will plug into a 16mm Filmo and shoot sync (but not time-lapse). 

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Thank you for the comment. I hope my test footage comes back looking good; and thanks for that pdf - this will definitely come in handy. A filmo shooting sync sounds pretty appealing- think I'll look into getting your product in the future.

- Derek

My guess is that sewing machine oil is sufficient for a Filmo. Some assemblies (i.e. shutter mechanism) need grease rather than oil.

 

Remember, these cameras were distributed by the hundreds to Marines for use in beach landings on sweaty little atolls in the South Pacific. Gun oil would probably work just as well, though I wouldn't recommend it for your camera.

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Thanks, I just saw some sewing machine oil at Target today. I'll pick up some of that (about 2 bucks)

- Derek

First of all, congratulations on your project. I hope the results meet your expectations.

 

For anyone else considering this operation, I strongly recommend removing the front end (shutter assembly & gate) from the rest of the camera before doing any filing or work that generates metal shavings. The clockwork mechanism does not take kindly to bits of metal in the works.

 

The gate plate was precision aligned on the front assembly at the factory using a special tool. Removal and reinstallation of the gate risks getting an improper gate alignment.

 

I will try to track down my US gov't repair manual & post excerpts concerning this assembly.

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Thanks Robert

I considered removing the shutter assembly along with the gate, but felt it would be a little too advanced an operation (and I didn't want to risk taking apart something that I could put back together correctly). I did a full wind and ran the camera after putting it back together and it runs good. What I need to do now is lubricate the camera. I heard pros and cons of using sewing machine oil - can you recommend an oil to use? Hopefully, I'll have some test results for everyone next week.

- Derek

You filed out the gate by hand? That's daring. How did you mark your progress so that you know you've reached the official Super 16 dimension? Did you pull off the shutter assembly from the rest of the camera before filing and dremelling the gate?

 

I'm also interested in seeing pic's and hearing your result. Keep us informed.

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Filing the gate by hand really wasn't that hard. I basically did a little at a time and checked the width with a ruler. the only thing I took apart was the gate assembly. I think it came out pretty good considering I've never done anything like this before.

I just got around to putting up my photos w/ notes online. Feel free to check em out and post your comments here.

go to: http://www.marazzo.us/filmo.htm

Thanks,

Derek

I too would love to see some jpegs of the process and the results.

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I was going to repolish the gate surface, but after filing it down, it really looks fine. I ran my finger across the original gate and the new filed part and then both feel pretty smooth. I guess polishes certainly wouldn't hurt. Does anyone how to go about this. Is some sort of metal polish that you apply and rub in? My dremel has a few polishing tips, but I've never donw anything lke that before - any guidance would be appreciated.

I did take some photos of the work I've done and I'll post that once its finished. I too, was reluctant to start in on it, but said wtf and just jumped in. I'll see if its a success soon, or I'll starting looking for another 70DR.

- Derek

The problem with attempting to move the turret over is that the turret spindle is concentric with the shutter blade assembly and turns a simple file & dremel operation into a logistical nightmare. My guess is that, if your stock of C mount lenses don't support an offset S16 format, you'd be better of buying a $30 Nikon F to C mount adapter and use Nikon lenses for your S16 shots.

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Well, I made some progress this weekend. I bought a set of small files from home depot and was able to file down the gate to super-16 size easily. the new size goes almost to the edge. I used a dremel with some metal grinding tips to bore out the metal in front of the gate (Behind the lens). Theres a few layers of metal from the front of the turret to the front of gate, so that took about 3 hours for the whole job. I tried to enlarge the circle to that of stretched circle to the right, enough so that the entire super-16 is exposed. Its certainly doesn't look pretty (I think I may have grinded off a little too much metal on the top right, [had the dremel on high speed and it was hard to control] but it shouldn't matter). Today, I'll go find some flat black paint to cover up the exposed shiny metal in front of the gate. Also, as I did all of these mods I used scotch tape to cover all of the inside parts in and around the gate to keep out the grinded metal; also blow compress air now and then as you go. I have some lenses to try out for the test run - will keep you posted.

- Derek

Because you would then have a S16 camera for B camera pickup shots. Of course you have the  problems listed above, but given a lens that covers the enlarged gate you are able to use existing equipment that would otherwise be useless and obsolete for any modern production.

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I'm with you - I have a camera I paid $140 so i don't mind experimenting; and like you said, you'd have a nice little s16 camera for b camera pickup shots and especially for those tight situations, if all goes well. Of course, you would have to just compensate for the centering issue when shooting, but you pretty much have to anyway with a filmo, right? If I had the money to buy a modified bolex or K3 I'd do it. Thats the point here, its a simple home job that'll save you alot of money and theres really not much to lose. Have you seen what people are charging for s16 conversions? I'm far from being a professional, but poop, you gotta start somewhere.

Look into the gate of your Filmo from the lens turret. You'll see there is more metal to remove in front of the gate, and it will need to be blacked so as to avoid reflections.

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Yes, I just took a close look last night and was going to mention that. Also, other than filing the gate wider, does something need to be done to hole in front of the gate. Shouldn't that be widened as well or is that what you're talking about. Forgive my cluelessness.

- Derek