David T. Nethery

A little confusing until you remember that at the time the camera was produced , most people were shooting with either Kodachrome 40 and Ektachrome 160 Super-8mm film, which was tungsten balanced , so to shoot outdoors you needed the 85-A filter in place to balance it for daylight. (sun symbol means the 85-A filter is in place). But if you shot with daylight balanced film, the 85-A filter was NOT needed, so you would switch the filter setting to "bulb" (meaning that the 85-A filter is removed). With B & W you do have the option of shooting with the 85-A filter enabled , which lowers the speed (which can be handy for shooting with high speed Tri-X in bright light) and also the orange color of the 85-A filter can add contrast and help to bring out details in sky areas , which otherwise might render as flat, white areas when you are shooting B & W. The reason many people will say to always leave the filter setting on bulb (85-A filter removed) is because the internal 85-A filters are quite old and may have deteriorated, which can have an impact on image quality , so when shooting with Daylight balanced film, (or B & W) use a screw-on 85-A filter in front of the lens.

Those moments are why so many of us spend time looking through antique stores and flea markets. Love it when something like that happens.

Thank you, that's good to know that the variable between exposing for 1/54 and 1/60 won't make that much of a difference. Right, that's what I've read before , which is what made me nervous about trusting the "cine scale" on either the Gossen Scout 2 or the Sekonic L-158 (as it would be applied to manual metering for a Super-8 camera) , but I was wondering if perhaps the cine scales on some of those meters were ever designed to take into account viewfinder light loss for movie cameras with a beam splitter (like the typical Super-8 camera) , but thanks for confirming that they do not. Oh, yes, I remember reading about the Gossen light meter for Bolex cameras, the one that clips on to a bracket on top of the camera . But I suppose one of those would only be accurate to use with the Bolex prism system and a Bolex 130° shutter angle.

Experienced cinematographers, please excuse the gross ignorance exhibited in this post. I will admit it: I'm a lazy shooter . In the past , I've always relied on the internal light meter of my Super-8 cameras (Nikon R10 / Nizo 560 / Canon 814 Auto Zoom) . I'll spot meter with those cameras (zoom-in , take the reading) and then lock the exposure when I need manual control, otherwise I leave them on auto-exposure and the results have always been good. I'm getting back into shooting film after several years of not shooting any film. Now I have a newly purchased eBay camera, a Nikon R10 , which seems to be in perfect condition except for a somewhat sticky meter (sometimes it seems to work ok, other times it "hesitates" or sticks when moving between f-stops when it is on auto exposure ... still waiting to get back the test rolls I shot to see if this is as big a problem as I fear ) and on my Canon 814 AZ the internal meter no longer works , but I can set the manual exposure. The Nizo 560 is working fine on both auto and manual. I'd like to get both the Nikon R10 and the Canon 814AZ serviced , but can't afford it right now and if I could learn to use both of those on manual exposure I'd be happy. To my chagrin, I've never mastered using an external meter to set the aperture manually on my Super-8 cameras because I've always read that the typical external meter will assume a camera with a 180° shutter angle , but the Nikon R10 is 160° shutter and Canon is 155° shutter , so I can never get it straight in my head how to read the external light meter to compensate for that . I have a Sekonic L-158 and a Gossen Scout-2 meter , both of which have a "Cine Scale" with markings for 9, 18, 24, 54 fps (and intermediate markings) , but if both meters are set to assume a 180° shutter angle the recommended f-stop can't be accurate for a camera with 160° and 155° shutter angle , plus I am told I must compensate for between 1/3 - to - 1/2 stop light loss to compensate for light that is redirected to the reflex viewfinder . Ok, maybe it shows how lazy and/or stupid I am, but the mental gymnastics involved in this take all the fun out of it for me. But I want to try to figure it out. Assuming my Sekonic L-158 and my Gossen Scout-2 are still accurate (?) , and assuming both those light meter's Cine settings are measuring based on a shutter angle of 180° (is this known for sure ? it doesn't say anything about that in the user manuals for those meters , but that's what I'm told ... ) is there an "easy" formula for converting a reading for a 180° shutter angle to a 160° or 155° shutter and also add to that the "1/3rd to 1/2 stop loss of light" for the reflex shutter or do I just ignore the 1/3'rd to 1/2 stop loss of light as not that significant (especially with negative film, which has a wider exposure latitude ... but for shooting reversal I would like to be more spot on ...) Also, does anyone know if the "Cine Scale" on meters like the Sekonic L-158 and Gossen Scout-2 took into account the lost light redirected to a reflex viewfinder or did those meters always assume the use of a non-reflex viewfinder , so no loss of light to the viewfinder was included in the Cine Scale reading ? In plain language , if I'm taking a reading with my Gossen Scout 2 and it is giving me an f-stop based on a 180° shutter angle at 1/48th of a second for 24 fps , but my Nikon R10 is 160° shutter angle , 1/54th of a second (24fps) how much do I have to adjust ? Looking at the Sekonic L-158 right now , it is giving a reading of f8 at 1/30 of a second and f5.6 at 1/60 of a second , so around half-way between 5.6 and f8 would be about right ?

That makes sense . I'm still cautious about it . (this just seemed too easy ! fresh batteries to the rescue ? I hope ... ) I need to shoot another test roll (or two) . I may still need to send it in to get serviced. I have to keep reminding myself how old these cameras are . (this one is in such good condition on the outside , looks new, but the insides ,who knows what may be failing ...) But the eBay seller accurately described the camera as appearing to be "fully functional" , including light meter , without actually having put film through it . The meter or anything else could fail some time soon , but I'm happy with the purchase. It's always a gamble with these old beauties. I'm also happy to report that the meter does seem to be accurate (even if the rubber part is gradually failing , getting "goopy" from age) . I took several readings with the camera's auto-exposure on and compared them to the reading I got from the CineMeter II iPhone app and they are identical or very close (within half-a-stop) . Against a neutral grey card the readings are identical from the R10 and the CineMeter II .

Hi, Ruben - I just heard back this morning from Jesse Chambless [ http://www.chamblesscineequip.com/ ] He has a repair technician who can fix the sticky light meter on the Nikon R10 and is also careful in removing the leatherette and getting it back on looking good after the repair has been made . So you might want to check with him. So, I think I may have good news (embarrassing to me, but good ) about my Nikon R10 : I could have sworn I had put fresh batteries in it when I shot that test roll, but when I pushed the battery check button just now the red light did not light up ... (even though the camera motor runs and the power zoom works) , hmmmm ... that doesn't seem right after only having put one roll of film through the camera ... so I put in 6 brand new Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries and the light meter seems to be working normally again ! How embarrassing ... I must have unknowingly put old batteries in it by mistake . The batteries still had enough juice to run the camera motor , but apparently not enough for both the camera motor and the light meter . I guess the R10's light meter takes a lot of the battery power ! Or else there's some sort of electrical short where the camera is draining the batteries really fast , so I will have to shoot another test roll of film to find out . But I'm feeling hopeful now.

Hi, NIck - I downloaded the Luxi free version (since I've also got the Luxi dongle attachment ) I get somewhat different f-stop readings with the Luxi light meter app vs. Cinemeter II app , but I guess it illustrates the old saying: "A photographer with one light meter knows what his exposure is. A photographer with two light meters is never sure.” I've just got to try it , do my bracketed exposures, then adjust based on those tests. I've done this before with 16mm . Don't know why I'm such a chicken using manual exposure with an external light meter for Super-8 ... I've shot 16mm with my Cine Kodak K-100 and my Bolex H16 , manual exposure , using an external meter , those films turned out fine. I think in the past with Super-8 I've always depended on the internal meter and let it be casual, "worry free" shooting , which is part of what draws me back to shooting Super-8 , that wonderful ability to just pop a cartridge in the camera and go shoot. If I think of all the cameras I've used , my happiest experiences have been using the Nikon R8 or R10 Super-8mm , Canon 514 XL Super-8mm , Cine Kodak K-100 16mm . (honorable mention to Yashica LD-8 Super-8 camera , which has always worked fine with the right lighting conditions, BUT doesn't have manual exposure or an EE Lock (like the Canon 514) , so it's only auto-exposure and you're at the mercy of the light .)

I'm going to have to contact him to see if he still works on these cameras . Since he recommended that I contact someone else I'm guessing he either doesn't do it anymore or he's too busy. Here's what he wrote on the Super 8 group on Facebook: On the Facebook group he posted the R10 repair manual . But I don't know if I'm brave enough to open it up myself . I'm really looking for someone who has done this before and knows what they are doing. https://www.facebook.com/groups/27648968851/files/ (it's the second file at that link : Repair_NikonR10_CD.pdf )

Kirk recommended contacting Phil V. at Pro8mm , but I think I read somewhere on Facebook ( Super 8mm group or Pro8mm User Group ) that Phil said he won't work on Nikons because it's too much of a hassle to open them up . I'll have to contact him to find out if he's changed his mind about that (or maybe he found a Nikon specialist in L.A. who will do the work ?) .

Thanks, Nick ! I just had a reply from Kirk on the Facebook group. I purchased the Cinemeter II app and a Luxi for my iPhone , but haven't used it yet . Is that the one you use ?

Recently I took a chance on a Nikon R-10 on eBay. I love these cameras and the price seemed right . 
 
 Camera arrived this week, looks to be in excellent shape , (physically/cosmetically I'd rate it "Near Mint - "like new" ) , motor sounds smooth, everything seems to work (I shot a test roll and will have that back in a week or two, which should reveal any problems, notably the light meter) 
 
 However, I noticed on a few shots that the auto-exposure seemed to be "sticking" at times ... the needle didn't always move smoothly along the f-stop scale in the viewfinder as the light conditions changed. Sometimes I noticed when moving from bright sunlight to dimmer shade the needle would stick where it had been at f16 or f11 and then suddenly jump to f 5.6 or f4 after a few seconds pointing towards a more dimly lit area. Now the problem seems to be worse as I'm testing it when I don't have any film loaded in the camera , if I just depress the trigger slightly to activate the light meter it seems very sluggish when I move from dim light to bright light , back to dim light ... sometimes the needle moves smoothly as expected, sometimes it sticks and then jumps abruptly. :( 
 I would like to get it looked at . Can anyone recommend a good repair service for the Nikon R-10 in North America , someone you've actually had repair your camera and would send your camera in to again ? (I have seen on his blog that Ignacio Benedeti Corzo highly recommends http://microdeltabalears.com/castellano.htm in Spain for service on Nikon R-10 , but I'd rather not ship it to Spain if I can avoid the international shipping costs , because it's an extra expense on top of whatever it's going to cost to have the camera serviced .) 
 
 I have read in some previous discussions about the R10 that sometimes the needle can get stuck in old hardened lube, which seems like what may be happening here (?) , except in my case the needle does move smoothly some of the time on auto-exposure , but not always. And I can set the f-stop easily with the manual exposure control knob , so the needle doesn't seem to be totally stuck , but is laggy on auto.
 
 
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 I suppose I could get along fine with an otherwise functional Nikon R10 that is manual exposure only , but in the past I almost always used the auto-exposure with my Nikons (I've owned both an R-8 and R-10 before , one got dropped and broke , the other I sold , wish I had not ... ) and had excellent results from the auto-exposure. I would use the camera to spot meter (zoom in close , take a reading) and then lock it with the manual exposure/EE lock, but never became much of an expert at using an external light meter. 
 Lazy , I guess. 
 I realize it's a separate topic to discuss using a hand-held meter to set the exposure manually on a Super-8 camera, but if any of you Nikon R-8 or R-10 owners have any tips , I'd appreciate it. I know the fully opened shutter angle is 160° so if things were simple (which they are apparently not) I'd be able to set the ASA on the hand held meter , then get a reading for the correct f-stop setting at 1/40 sec (at 18 fps) or 1/54 (at 24 fps) and that would be that ... except everything I have ever read says that the reflex viewfinder will steal light , but it always seems very vague to me ... some people say the viewfinder light loss amounts to "about 1/3rd of a stop" others say "about 1/2 a stop". How does anyone really know for sure ? And supposedly all the older hand held meters (I have a Gossen Scout 2 and a Sekonic L-158) will assume that the camera has a shutter angle of 180° , so I have to adjust for that if using the "Cine Scale" on these meters. And yes, I realize the only way to really work it out for sure is to shoot a test roll with bracketed exposures , but do any of you Nikon R-8/R-10 owners have any experience to share on using a hand held meter with the Nikon R10/R8 ? 
 
 With the exposure latitude of the Kodak S-8 neg. stocks if I'm off by 1/3rd of a stop or 1/2 a stop (by relying on the Gossen or Sekonic meter reading) will that really matter too much ? Although I understand that with neg. stock slight over-exposure is better dealt with than under-exposure.