Adam Worth

thanks, this is helpful. a similar space to mine. & not too far off musically.

just wanted to play it safe on this one, have enough lights to cover my butt. An overhead soft box is out of budget, to begin with i cant afford the truck that would be required for the lift or very long ladder. So this video inspires some ideas.

here is the track we're doing the video for

One of my favorite performance videos is "Judith" Directed by David Fincher

 

Both in the way its lit and the way the performance is shot and edited. Looking at it closely - it seems the light through the doors is the main light source. Maybe they bashed in a few small fixtures on the odd shot. But generally its the daylight blasting though the door and the courage to play it dark. Its difficult to tell it its all day light or if they have a massive HMI punching through the door to help.

 

Might be a bit too "metal" for your group - but the look really works for the song in question and the coverage supports the performance.

 

Really I would listen to the song a lot. The mood of the music should dictate the look. You are lucky to have a good flexible space and enough budget to be creative on the lighting front. What you do really needs to serve the music and the performance. So its impossible to really comment. I would light Radiohead in a different way to Slayer in the same space.

Hello all - thanks again. Please critique my lighting diagram. I know this location has a lot of creative possibilities, but i need a straight forward setup that just highlights the performance. any more advice is much appreciated! I plan to open the hangar doors, put some ctb on the lights. Prob won't use as many 2' quasar LED tubes ('Q') than i drew here. let me know if u see any potential problems!

Thanks thats good advice. I'm afraid the scissor lift is out of budget (cuz of the needed truck to bring it) and the hangar's scissor lift is being repaired.

I did pitch the overhead softbox first thing. The band wanted a more natural look. Also yes my crew is kinda young and inexperienced.

You've inspired me to put my 5K (or a source four?) way up high and directly behind the band for backlighting. maybe with diffusion.

And the 1k as a key light. Possibly another 5k or source four as fill. i'll also have quasars lighting them up on 2-3 sides too.

still havent placed my lighting order so i'm very much appreciating your input!

It also depends on your crew's capabilities. You should check how much a scissor lift is to rent at least for the backlights, the hanger probably has one for $200-300. I know that the key grips I work with would be asking me where the backlight overhead was going and how many lights were going in it. The space does seem perfect for an overhead softbox to backlight talent and light the whole space, but if your crew can't do that quickly its probably not worth it., but it would be dope.

great idea, yup i needed that behind the band shot anyway, and was wondering how.

I think shooting in the direction of the open doors, with the band silhouetted in the foreground could look interesting.

i appreciate everyones input! The situation is i need to show off the space, i cant let it fall to black. When i came onboard i was asked to just show the band in a lot of wide shots, interacting and playing together. The space needs to be visible - they wanted a bit of an 'unlit' look. they said 'not too bright.'

i thought i would, based on the input provided here, open the hangar doors (winter in NJ!:) and turn off the overheads.

I got approval for some 2' quasar tubes in the background. I thought i might get 10-12. Then try to side light the band with a 1k HMI as suggested by Robin. Another couple 5k's, one for fill, and a couple source fours to play on the background. I just want to have enough lighting to cover my butt., and the video was pitched as a simple performance video in a nice space, without anything too fancy as far as lighting design.

thanks all!

you can see more photos and a pic of the space with doors open and overhead lights off here

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a4vrvs8bwx9qn7n/AAAku_pTlaWzB6M0A3yktzcSa?dl=0

Yea i have a $2000 lighting budget so a man-lift and a ceiling rig of some kind isn't in the budget, although that would be cool. Also, the band and record label want to keep it simple, and just highlight the band and their performance / less is more / guerilla approach.

Based on your guy's input, i'm leaning towards turning off the overheads, getting a couple 5k HMI's and a 1k HMI, 10 quasar tubes on the background, and hope thats enough to light the space and band. If not i'll open the doors a bit? What do you think ?

I'm estimating that the hanger is about 25' to the peak of the roof. To do anything other than turn the HID lights off you are going to need a man-lift. Is that in your budget?

Doors open IS an option - i just figured that would be so hard to control... i cant put a silk over the big hangar doors y'know.. i can possibly do some tests with this tho. Should i just let the natural light in and do its thing? Just put some diffusion over the talent for close ups?

https://www.red.com/flicker-free-video

 

 

23.98p yes should be safe.. its shutter speed that matters more .. 180 degree,s is not usually going to work with practical lights .. ie 1/48th.. you want too shoot 1/60th.. to match the US 60Hz.. the same hangar in the UK would be 23.98p 1/50th as 50 Hz supply... Japan uniquely I think, has both 50 and 60 Hz in different parts of the country..

 

Same with slo mo.. I try to keep it divisible by the Hz and then double the shutter .. but unlike fluorescent these sodium lights can be weird and usually their CT is all over the place.. I do shoots for Boeing and ANA and dread these lights.. I ask for the doors to be opened to over power them with day light when ever possible.. although often the reply is to behave like my pay grade.. :)

 

Mark is right of course.. if you can just switch them off and bring in some HMI,s or something its going to a lot less flat.. and bright.. and you won't have to worry about flicker .. hard to be moody with this things on..you would almost have to go for flat bright look..

thanks for mentioning, yea i've shot some tests and there is some flickering, as i've detailed in this separate post. Any help is appreciated there too:!

Whats the safest FPS to shoot in? Is 23.98 ok? Etc

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=78678&hl=

test footage is here

Sorry if this is teaching the proverbial grand mother to suck eggs.. but I would check for flicker off those sodium discharge lights.. esp if your doing any slo mo..they can be nasty in comparison to fluorescent ..

nevermind about this lol !

Thank so much for the advice!
What if I shot in true 24FPS - could i safely avoid flicker at most shutter speeds, as i've read?

I’m shooting a low budget ($5k) music video in a large hangar with walls about 150 feet by 100 feet. It has existing overhead discharge lighting that I’m forced to use due to budget. color temp of the lights is about 4500k, fstop 4.5 with overheads only. Pic of space attached.

A rock band will perform in the middle of the space, about 75 feet from the wall (where the lighting setup will be). I was just hoping for some standard dramatic side lighting on their faces and maybe a little kick on the fill side. The record label requested it not be too 'bright.'

I'm mostly concerned about lighting them in wide shots cuz i need lots of throw. And I only need to light the band nicely, i dont need to light the location, besides some quasar 2 foot light tubes on the walls in the background.

And i think i'm covered for close ups - my existing lighting kit includes 3x litegear litemat 1x1 led panels, an astra 6x led panel , an Apurture 300D daylight balanced, and a small Arri tungsten kit - 650, 300, 150.. & for close ups I do plan to flag the overheads.

SO my question - The plan i have was to get 2-3 800w jokers, and light the band from about 75 feet (and a bit high up maybe) thru diffusion (Hampshire frost) and 1/4 CTO to get that temperature equal to the overhead lighting at around 4500k.

Is there a better way to do this? Could i use my apurture 300D or astra 6x at 75 feet to save money?

Or am I on the right track with a few 800w jokers and 1/4 CTO? Also i already need to adjust my shutter and FPS for the existing light, to avoid flicker - so i can't have any lights i order have the potential to flicker.

Is there a better choice in gel, for a natural but flattering look under this lighting?

That is some sort of discharge lighting, which means it flickers, as you've found out. You need a 1/60 shutter speed instead of 1/48. At 23.98 fps, adjust your shutter angle to 144º and see if that helps. If you have precise control over the shutter, you may find it needs 144 point something. At 59.94 fps stick with 180º

Thank so much for the advice!

What if I shot in true 24FPS - could i safely avoid flicker at most shutter speeds, as i've read?

I’m shooting/directing/editing a low budget ($5k) music video in a large hangar about 130 feet x 150 feet. It has existing overhead lighting in a grid (pic attached) that I’m forced to use because the budget doesn’t allow for re-lighting the space. The lighting in the space was installed 2 years ago, color temp is about 4500k, f-stop 4.5. Pic attached - not sure what kind of light it is...Can anyone tell me based on photo?

This is a simple one location performance video for a fast paced rock song, we're just counting on the energy of the band and nice visuals to drive the viewer interest - no other story per say. The band will be setup in the middle of this large space. I had been hoping to shoot in 23.98fps and 90 or 45 degree shutter for that ‘saving private ryan’ effect, as well as some slow motion. Was counting on camera settings in part to keep the video interesting and changing throughout.

I did some camera tests at 4k 23.98fps 180 degree shutter, in the location with existing lighting, came home and looked at the footage, and I’m getting slight banding at 180 degrees, 90 degrees and 45 degree shutter speeds. Here is the test footage. It is more noticeable if you scroll fast:

https://vimeo.com/307543435

I’m shooting on a Panasonic EVA1, it can be set to display shutter as degrees or fractions. i’ve always used the default camera setting of 180 degrees (which as I understand equals 1/48). Also on the EVA1 I set the ‘base system frame rate’ as 59.94 or 23.98 - then adjust FPS for slow or fast motion separately.

At base of 59.94 I dont see any banding in the test footage (see TC 01:34). BUT I didn’t test other shutter speeds at 59.94. I ONLY tested 180 degrees, and it maybe difficult to get back in the space for more tests - besides morning of shoot.

SO my question - what can I expect to not have banding shutter and FPS - wise? Is 23.98FPS totally out of the question? What settings should i test first? Trying to get a sense of what will be possible as I may get limited chances to test again. Will 59.94 FPS get no banding, at any shutter speed? Is all hope lost for fast shutter speed effects? What might be 'safe?'

As for slow motion, what about 120FPS at a 59.94? The conformed 59.94-23.98 slow motion in my test footage (TC 02:31) isn’t quite slow enough, but with horrible banding at 23.98 120fps... should i rule out 120FPS?

Recent posts here suggested staying at 180 degrees. That didn’t work out for me in 23.98. It works ok in 59.94, but other faster shutter and slow mo options would be great. Thanks for any help!