Mike Crane

Wondering if anyone has heard the latest on the Fuji 50 ASA??

 

Maybe someone can chime in with any thoughts on why not one sound film is being made?? It would seem to me they'd do quite well with it if one was available.

 

Is it the ecological concern or just perceived lack of interest?

Could you be speaking of the Fuji Velvia 50D from Spectra? My understanding is that it will be released somtine near the end of March. I saw a sample of some at their store and it looks much better that Kodak's 64T. VERY colorful and sharp. For better or for worse it still retains some of the contrast characteristics of reversal. http://spectrafilmandvideo.com/Film.html

I am almost certian no sound film is planned for by any company. Special sound cartridges must be manufactured in addition to machinery to stripe the film in the dark. Way too expensive.

Hello Morris,

Before you invest a single cent extra in the camera I would suggest running a quick film test. Spectra Film in N. Hollywood sells old black and white super 8 reversal triX and PlusX cheap for this purpose or new reg 8 film stocks: www.spectrafilmandvideo.com

When you are done shooting get it processed and look at it and a borrowed viewer or projector.

If your camera passes, put up another post for advice on accessories.

Good Luck!

I agree with Alex. Feedback ratings on ebay are somewhat nebulous. As a buyer, I myself have held back from leaving bad feedback because I risk unjust negative feedback in retaliation. In fact, I have always paid in full in a timely manner. But, my feedback rating is marred by a couple of sellers that retaliated when I left them negative feedback. So, I don't do it nearly as often as I should.

To be honest, I find that ebay is a rip-off most of the time. They only way to go is to expect the worst. Be sure to bid low so you have money left over to pay for servicing that a camera will likely require.

The best answer is to buy your camera from a reputable camera store that has serviced and tested all their cameras. A warranty of some sort is key with 20 - 30 year old super 8 cameras. I have found this usually saves me by far the most money in the long run. Especially when you consider the cost of testing, camera service, time spent, etc.

Considering the cost involved to buy a camera, refurbish it, test it with film, provide a warranty, sell it and make a few dollars to pay overhead, I think that camera stores have a pretty hard time competing in today?s market. It would be good of us to consider this and appreciate the fact that they are still willing to offer us an option. Here is the place that I have had good luck with: http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Camera.html

Best of luck with your 715.

For higher contrast and saturation, I would suggest exposing the 7201 normally (EI 50D), and trying a push-1 process. Push-2 is likely to be "overkill". A push process normally boosts contrast a bit, and gives the color-enhancing interimage effects more time to work their magic.

Hi John,

Are we ever going to see 7201 in super 8? Is Kodak considering this?

I personally prefer the great service from Spectra Lab (formerly Spectra American Color Lab) that is well known for great E-6 processing of 7285, 5285 and Velvia motion picture films. The color and density is spot-on with all the jobs I do with them.

The color and contrast of Kodak's 7285 reversal and Fuji's Velvia 50D is stunning (almost surreal). I recommend it for unique creative applications that need something different.

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Lab.html

You could try Spectra. The specialize in Canon repair and did a great job on my camera. But, keep in mind that they sometimes take a while due to back-up. spectrafilmandvideo.com

To begin with, I would forget about expensive wide screen and sync cameras. Start off with a small, cheap camera you can experiment with. This may help you figure out if super 8 or 16mm is the way to go. In addition, you will learn the basics on how to shoot, expose, process, transfer film. With this experience you will gain a better understanding of your true needs.

Unfortunately, Ebay will eat a novice alive with non-working cameras, rip-off bidding, etc. Not a good way to get started. It will all take time to learn the models, correct questions to ask and fair pricing.

For a beginners first time camera I would recommend checking out some refurbished models on Spectra's camera page. They have reasonably priced, refurbished, film tested cameras there for under $100.00 to get started. In addition to the camera, they offer some fantastic shooting advice with the understanding that beginning filmmakers do not have a lot of money to spend. When you are done, get some film and processing from them as well. Go out, shoot and learn about the process of filmmaking for as little as possible. When you are ready, you can break out some more serious money for your project.

Good luck!

I saw the details for this on Spectras website including pre-order info: spectrafilmandvideo.com

I also spotted this in the filmshooting.com forum:

I'm very interested in Velvia 50D for Super-8, but before getting too involved, I'd like to know a bit more about its prognosis for continued availability. Is this the same RVP stock that Fuji discontinued at the end of 2005? If not, what is it, and if so, how much of it is around, and are there plans to offer Velvia 100 or 100F in Super-8?

 

 

And they responded--

 

Quote:

Hello David,

 

All excellent questions. The Velvia we have access to is going to be a two to three year supply. It is a series of final fresh batches made by Fuji and will be stored at Fuji for us to use. Once it is no longer available, there are arrangements to switch to the Velvia 100. A Provia 200 is also being discussed for interior applications.

 

The reason we are so interested in the 50D is because it is compatible with the cameras ability to read 40 ASA. So, there will be no more issue with auto exposure.

 

In addition, we can say that tests have shown Velvia to produce amazing results that are far superior to 64T. Grain and sharpness seem to be about on par (if not better than) well shot K-40. But, exposure latitude and color palate seem to be superior to K-40. The Velvia is almost totally grainless with colors of every hue pushed to the extreme!

 

We can say without doubt that everyone who uses this film should be very pleased with the results. And, considering how much more expensive the Velvia 35mm is, we think that our "breakthrough" price is very reasonable for those who wish to shoot with it on a regular basis.

 

We will only have a small amout of film available when we release the Velvia (until we ramp up our inventory). We are recommending that those who wish to obtain some rolls pre-order. We should have it out in less than a month and will fill our pre-orders first.

It is true that the price is quite good considering what Velvia has cost in super 8 in the past. At 35.00 per roll (with processing), it is only a couple of dollars more than what Spectra sells 64T for. I will be calling in a pre-order batch of film to use with my next project. When I get the results I will post them here. Considering the great E-6 processing I have gotten from Spectra in the past, I expect great results from the Velvia.

You're talking about DVCPRO50. DVCPRO (aka DVCPRO25) uses the same codec as DVCAM and Mini-DV, so picture quality is the same, the only difference may be the "robustness" of the recording and resistance to dropouts.

 

It's confusing when people say "DVCPRO" when they mean specifically "DVCPRO50".

Hey David,

You seem to have been around the block a few times. What do you think of as an economical format to transfer to for most 16 and super 8 that still delivers solid, SD quality within the professional realm?

I think most of the people here are into low budget music videos, documentaries, privately funded features, and creative projects. I am sure most people would rather have some extra cash for more film, better equipment, talent, etc. instead of splitting hairs on costly video transfer with debatable micro differences that nobody will ever see in SD or HD viewed normally. What would be a reasonable video format without going into high-end overkill?

Is BetaSP, DVCAM and MiniDV now considered crap that must be avoided at all costs when doing SD transfer? Are all production companies that swear by BetaSP and DVCAM (I know of quite a few) for the majority of their 35 and 16 (which looks fantastic) for broadcast TV all insane?

I know there may be places that offer cheap 10 bit transfer to hard drive or Digi Beta. But, that still does not make them the best by a long shot. Talent and skill of the colorist and the equipment he uses makes the difference. Supervised sessions also make a difference. I know of a couple of places in LA that will still do a much better job on MiniDV than the transfer mills on the east coast offering 10 bit HD or Digi Beta.

For the record, I use DVCAM for most of my work. But, I would not stick my nose up to MiniDV or BetaSP either. All seem to be good formats offering ultrasharp picture for my 16mm (and super 8) at the place where I transfer.

And you've done a smashingly good job of it!

I know I can count on everyone in this thread to keep it quiet for Kodak! :lol:

Let me rephrase. A Kodak rep actually told me that 50D Vision 2 in super 8 is being given serious consideration. But, thats as far as it goes.

I was told to keep it under wraps.

I heard a rumor that Kodak is giving the 50D V2 serious consideration for release in super 8. I wonder if the "custom order" of 50D mentioned above is from Kodak? If this is true, Kodak may actually release the film soon.

True Mike,

"Hate" is a very strong word. But, what can you say about a company that the covers up the fact that they have been stuffing their super 8 cartridges with cheap re-can film for years without letting the buyers know about it? I myself had X-ray all over my film when everything I shot was local. Later, a Pro8mm employee (who still works there) privately told me that they use recan and short end film exclusively for their process to make bigger profits.

To top it all off, Pro8mm sells recan super 8 with processing for MORE than you can buy new Kodak film packaged with processing from companies like Spectra Film and Video and Yale!

So, in truth, we do others a favor by recommending places that sell quality products and services as well as steering people away from places that take advantage of people. But, in the end, it is still up to the person who does their own research who they will use.

Personally I think getting transfers to harddrives is a great way to go especially for budget minded no budget filmmakers. I am just starting to look into this myself, but it would seem to make sense that one could get a transfer to a hardrive, take it home and hook it up to you system and delete a digibeta or better tape, remove the necessity of renting or buying a digibeta deck, and a breakout card.

 

Like I said I am just starting to look into this, but I am optimistic and looking forward to trying it out.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

best

 

Tim

Hey Tim,

I agree! It is good to see another transfer option available. I have hopes for it becoming easier/safer to use and less expensive in time. At the moment, however, you should compare the rate of 10 bit hard drive transfer against MiniDV, DVCam and BataSP rates. I think you will find that hard drive transfer is anything but for the "budget minded". Remember, a consumer MiniDV deck (or camera) that plays back DVCam can be bought very cheaply these days. From that point forward all you need is inexpensive tapes to send back and forth.

In addition, you must still rent or buy hard drives to ship back and forth. What happens if the shipper drops your box and the data is not retrievable off the drive? Do we have to pay for yet another transfer to hard drive? And, will we need to replace the portable hard drive on top of that? What will this do to people who have serious deadlines with money involved?

I also think we still need to see a valid comparison to see the true difference between the formats all done at the same place and time with the best input methods possible. I still have doubts as to what significant differences there will be between them. Especially where super 8 is concerned.

Nope! I'm still gonna stick with tape for now. Keeping it safe and cheap is what its all about!

Hey Santo,

If I had to ship a DVCAM deck out in order to do a transfer I would agree with you about comparing the expense and risk issues with a hard drive. However, since I only send a $15.00 tape with my film, and, because the tape can take far more shock damage, I would say that you are making an unfair comparison. DVCAM is far safer, cheaper and more stable to use if travel or shipping is involved. And, most of the cheap MINIDV decks will play back DVCAM now, making it more convenient and cost effective than ever.

Speaking from experience, I have compared digi beta master directly against dvcam siml with no significant difference. I think it is still too expensive, risky and troublesome dealing with hard drives for what would make little or no difference to the super 8 format.

Remember, the idea is to keep super 8 affordable at the highest possible quality - within reason. For those who shoot fast and need cheap and convenient methods to get film in and out of a computer, DVCAM, BetaSP and MiniDV is still the way to go.

I, myself would like to see direct comparison of hard drive (SDI direct), DVcam (SDI direct), Beta SP (component direct) and MiniDV (component direct) done at the SAME transfer facility at the SAME time. If possible, alter settings to see the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit as well. This would be a true test to form help form opinions once and for all!

My honest opinion is that DVCAM with proper signal input could produce results nearly as good as uncompressed hard drive or Digi Beta for much less money (and, saving the money is why we shoot super 8 in the first place). Since most MINIDV decks now play back DVCAM, DVCAM seems to be the most reasonable and affordable compromise. Plus, hauling around (or, shipping) an expensive and clumsy hard drive that may easily become damaged gives me a very uneasy feeling.

DVCAM is a solid format and what I use all the time for professional 16 and 35mm as well as super 8. My results using this method have been phenomenal - even when I compare it directly with a Digi Beta master.

My favorite super 8 mag by far. Very professional.

Keep up the good work! ;)

If you are shooting the 7217, then may I suggest that you buy direct from Kodak. The filmstock and carts are better than those you will get from Pro8mm. They use lots of short ends for their film. In terms of how to rate the film and the color cast, test. Many say rate the stock at least 2/3 over. some say rate it at 100 asa. I would shoot a test roll and see what works best for you. Good luck

I agree with zaefod. Going with Kodak brand film will be less expensive and better quality. This will also allow you to choose a better quality lab and telecine facility to go with.

A crystal mod would be a great asset for your 1014 camera in my opinion. And, it would cost much less. Useful for concerts, interviews and any other application requiring location sound.

MAX-8 is really just another Pro8mm gimmick to corner people into their pricey niche services (including their telecine). I recommend you use caution with them.

Spectra Film has a selection of rebuilt cameras that work with AA batteries. In their camera descriptions on their web page, they usually list if the camera they are selling is not compatible with 64T.

Here is their camera page. You can call them to ask about features and film compatibility of specific cameras that may not be on listed their page.

My questions in the title, will kodak offer a modern E6 film in the super 8 cartridge or even the 100D. Going off topic, on projecting my recent E6 results (64t), i notice there is a lot more turds/marks flying around, especially on the skies. Never had this problem with k40, and processing in Switzerland by kodak.

Probably just some dirty processing or dirt from projection. You may want to give the film a cleaning to see if it removes some of the dirt. Or, consider trying another lab. I personally use Spectra, but there are many here in the US that do good E-6 processing.

I assume there are also a few E-6 sources to try in Europe as well.

I add my vote with the rest. Vision 2 500T would be the ideal film. Push it one stop if you must.

I have pushed 500T performance footage shot in low light with good results. Spectra sold me the film processing and telecine in a package with this in mind. The detail was there and I believe it was less grainy than using an older 800T film.

However, it would be ideal if you could get more light on the subject without the push to reduce grain. Also note that I have shot boxing footage under standard lighting in the ring with no push. The results were fantastic for super 8.

You would not get any new motion picture camera for such a price with features like that these days. Way too much work involved with limited quantities that would be sold.

As early as the 80's, Aaton was approached to build professional super 8 cameras with limited features. They wanted about 10K each (wholesale).

Within reason, you could probably buy a rebuilt Canon 1014 with 24fps crystal and/or a gate mod for about $1500- 2000.

My understanding is that daylight balanced film will deliver a cleaner (more grainless) picture when used for daylight situations. This relates (according to kodak) to the blue color layer in the film.

Here is another place I use for both 16 and super 8 work: Spectra Film. They have a souped Rank with Da Vinci that delivers a great picture. Their Meta-speed will run their Rank at any frame rate you wish - including 18fps.