Adam Paul

I got the whole system and with the complete camera, battery, arm, weights and vest, its like 20lbs. I insisted in taking one long shot and this was my 4th take and the last.

Oh, OK. As you didn't mention an arm and vest before I thought for a minute you were handholding the 4000 for that long. Maybe if you were Arnie :D

Good job still.

Well, I'm glad it doesn't look low budget, but it was. I'm not sure what the budget was, but I would guess that it was under $1,000,000. IMDB says it was 3 million, but I seriously doubt that's true.

As for filtration....if I remember correctly, I think we shot clean, but we did use the Pro35, so that could be what you're seeing.

Thanks for pointing out that it's out on DVD. It's on my Netflix list now.

Aha, so you used the Pro35? That may be why it looks soft. But for DVD it?s actually very pleasing, very filmic. Did you see it on the big screen? Did it look too soft?

Was the Pro35 used for all the shoot, even for the landscape/panorama shots? How about lenses? Was it shot with Zeiss Super Speeds?

Really nice job.

I worked on a movie a few years ago that cropped to 2.35 from the Varicam. I've only seen the trailer online, so I can't say how it turned out. Check it out here: http://www.soldierofgod.net/trailer.html

I'm not sure if it's on DVD or not, but it might be worth checking out for reference.

Just saw Soldier of God on DVD. The cinematography is very good and the images are just gorgeous. Very good color and tonal range. This is the 1st feature I see that was shot with the Varicam. I like the colors way better than the F900 for what I have seen in this movie, although it's noticeably softer. Not really a bad thing at all, at least not for DVD. But I can imagine it must have looked really soft on the big screen. Probably too soft. Maybe they used some sort of filtration to soften the image?

You said you worked on it. Do you have any ideas of what kind of budget they had to work with? It looks really good and it doesn't really feel like a low budget film.

Hey Guys

I shot this on my HVX GlideCam 4000. Remember this is my first day using my glidecam. Love to hear from you guys.

http://www.sibte.com/shot.mov

Wow, that's a pretty long shot. The HVX200 is quite heavy. Did you have a smooth shooter vest? How much did the whole rig weight?

I wonder if the production really knows what it is doing, if they say that can't afford to hire more than 4 or 5 people yet have the budget to shoot for 30 days. And the director is going to act as his own AD? That seems like a total distraction -- an AD shields the director from a lot of crap that keeps the director from doing their job properly.

He would even like to have a AD, but this is a small town and he just can?t find one and to bring somebody from the next bigger town would cost too much. It would probably mean having to let 2 people go to hire an AD. Maybe 3, because you would have to factor in a hotel etc for the AD for the 30 days. The reason for the 30 days as I understood is because he really thinks less than that isn?t enough. I mentioned we could maybe shoot it in 20 days and maybe add 2 more crew people, but he doesn?t think 20 days is enough, even with 2 more. Because you have to know that we are not talking about a big town with professional crew people available on every corner. From the whole crew, besides me, the script supervisor and the sound person, the rest are just people who have done work with video, but never worked a feature. So adding 2 more of those people wouldn?t really improve things up more than having an extra 10 days. But he seems to be a pretty competent guy and I truly believe he can do it. Since the crew is not big, he may be able to pull it off as long as he prepares very well.

Adam,

 

From your crew list, it looks like you won't be doing any lighting. In that case, I think you should have no problem shooting the script in 4 weeks. Yet, it may look very "documentary" in style, for lack of a better description.

Actually, I?m the one doing the lighting and also operating. Documentary style is exactly what the Director doesn?t want.

The 35mm lens adapter will be a real obstacle though as you will be required to work at miniscule depth of field, which will require expert focus pulling, probably beyond the ability of a 1st ac / PA.

They are not going for the extreme shallow focus look. The Director wants to shoot everything with a T4. That?s to make the AC?s and actor?s life easier. Remember it?s a 1/3? chip camera.

Also the adapter will use up two stops of light, requiring that you shoot all day exteriors. I would strongly suggest that you test the 35mm adapter in advance in the type of lighting conditions that you'll be using, along with a very good HD monitor to see if you can keep the moving actors in focus and have enough exposure for the camera. Personally, I would skip the expense of the 35mm adapter and lenses and get at least a few lights and reflectors and a lighting crew person, otherwise, what there is is what you'll get lighting wise, good or not so good...

-bruce

I don?t think lighting will be the problem for the style he wants. He owns a pretty decent lighting package actually. Tweenies, Babies, Juniors and a Senior, plus a mighty-mole, couple of Mickeys, a Blonde, a Redhead, a couple of broads and an array of reflectors, flags, a couple of softboxes, china lamps and grip gear. Power for all locations is sorted out too.

Thanks again for all the input.

If your crew is experienced, it is "possible", I guess.

 

But is the 4-5 man crew includes sound dept. as well?

 

I mean,

 

2 people on camera: DP/Operator and 1stAC/Focus Puller

 

2 people in Lighting: Gaffer and Grip

 

1 (2 would be alot better) person running sound and boom opping?

 

Sounds pretty gnarly, don't you think you could get a few more people if you really tried?

 

1stAD is of Monumental importance! (Script Super too...but)

Yes, 4-5 including sound. The crew is DP/Op, 1st AC (who is also working as a PA when he has time) sound person(boom and mixing) , a script supervisor (Directors wife) and a PA/grip. No AD. The Director would be doing the AD?s job.

I don?t think the budget allows for more people really.

So would the budget allow for more than 30 days? You spend the money where it will do you the most good...

 

I know what it's like to work in the no budget/independent world, but really, manpower is always your cheapest resource. It costs less to add another guy than it does to add another day. Usually a production will add extra crew on the heavy days that they're really needed, then cut back to the core crew for the bulk of the shoot.

 

If the budget is absolutely fixed, prohibiting more people or more days, then you start cutting or combining scenes to simplify the schedule and shots. This is part of what a 1st AD does.

What I understood is that budget doesn?t allow for more people or more days. If pick ups or re-shoots are needed they will be done on weekends with a crew of 3 volunteers.

But I?m trying to convince them to get an extra crew member.

I did a small HD movie with just a few crew members to help, two in fact... but they were comedies of people talking in bars and diners. Not action movies. You need a bigger crew to pull that off well and safely, depending on the action. For one thing, action movies tend to need a lot of set-ups, they tend to want moving camera shots, cameras rigged to things like movie vehicles, they tend to have stunts, etc.

It?s really more of a thriller than action movie. The action is basically a couple of punches, some shooting and a chase through town (on feet, not car chase).

What I?m worried about is that the Director seem to be planning using a dolly and a jib quite often.

You have not given us a lot of detail but this sounds a bit odd. If its an action / thriller script the action part of it will need to be minimal, and handled in a minimalistic way.

 

What is your sense of these people, are they increadbly well organized? Are they experienced and realistic? Has the director pre-visualized every shot and how its to be done? Does he have real plans to achieve what he wants or is he using sentences that begin with the phrase: "if we can get . . ."

The Director seems to be pretty organized and really looks like he knows what he wants.

Also if you are going to use the pro35mm adapter, be carefull, depending upon the lighting, f stop, focal length you will see the spinning ground glass more in some situations than others, so your footage will have different looks based on how much the camera was seeing the glass.

It?s actually a Mini35 rather then the Pro35. I?m aware of the ground glass problems but the Director is bent on using the adapter because he wanted to shoot it in 35mm with an old Arri, but budget didn?t allow it. So he wants to at least get the 35mm dof.

My experience is that unless you've got people preparing for the days/weeks ahead you'll start running out of steam after about a week. You need those production office, location, design people to be setting up ahead of the main unit. This is extremely difficult to do if everyone is on set shooting and future scenes/locations have to be prepared after a day's filming and there's always some daily firefighting to be done as things go wrong - people fall sick, locations are no longer available etc.

 

I know studio set based features that have been shoot in a week. Coppola shot "Dementia 13" with a crew of 9 in 3 days (some say two days) whilst working for Roger Corman. I don't know if there were pick ups or any additional material needed after the main shoot. This tends not to be mentioned when you hear about these extremely low number of shooting days feature films.

The Director?s is doing the AD?s job himself, but the plan is to have it all prepared, storyboarded and broken-down with shot lists etc all before shooting. Locations are all practical locations so not much to prepare there.

Thanks for all the inputs. It?s really helping to clear the picture and have a realistic idea of what could happen.

Forget about the days, get more people! Your crew is overloaded with responsibilities for a feature-length film.

That's the thing. They can't get anymore people. Budget won't allow for it. That's the reason I wanted to ask if 30 days is "enough" to shoot a 100 pages script with a crew of 4 or 5 + the Director.

Hi,

 

I think you could probably go a little faster on HD, especially if it's tape, you avoid 35mm groundglass adaptors, use zooms, etc.

Well, the Director wants the 35mm adapter no matter what. I kind of agree as it's nearly impossible to get selective focus with a 1/3" camera .

There is, fairly unquestionably, considerably less fiddling about to do. Exactly what sort of difference it's ever going to make depends very much on the nature of the production. On a microbudget enthusiast-level thing, I guess it could save you 20% of camera-related time. That percentage will drop off as you become more professional about it up to the point where you're Star Wars and there's so many other departments around dipping an oversized ladle into the time pot that the difference will be negligible.

 

It also depends on the quality and experience of your crew. If your crew is experienced with HD, they'll be faster. There's the attitude situation as well; HD people will usually be used to much shorter schedules. Not to imply that 35mm people are lazy, but there's a certain slightly laid-back mindset that goes with it.

 

A lot of this has more to do with experience and expectation than technology, but I'd have thought HD could be faster a lot of the time.

 

Phil

Yeah, I was worried 30 days would be way too short. But I'm starting to get the feeling it may more than just doable.

What has the fact that it will be shot on HD have to do with the shooting schedule?

I just thought I would mention it in case it made any difference. I somehow think shooting HD can go a bit faster than shooting film all things being equal. You don?t need to re-load every 4 or 10 minutes, you don?t need to check the gate, the camera is much lighter, so tripod and everything else is much lighter and so faster to move around. These may be just small things, but in my opinion, in the end of the day it adds up. May be just my impression though.

The truth is that a shooting schedule, unless everyone is working for free, is almost always based on the number of days you can actually afford to shoot, not on how many days you need to shoot. And if you can't make the movie for those numbers of days, then you start simplifying the script to match the schedule.

Well, I was shown a 100 pages action/thriller script and the production can only afford a 30 days shooting schedule with 4 people on the crew plus the Director. That would be about 3 and ½ pages a day. I was just trying to figure if it would be enough to do a good job or if it isn?t worth it because it would be too much pressure and too short time. The crew would be ?D.P?., soundman, 1 AC/PA and maybe one more PA. No AD. The Director would be doing the AD?s job. There would be a script supervisor but it?s just the Director?s wife. I was offered to shoot it.

Also, how many pages a day you can shoot depend on the pages (the complexity of the scenes and the amount and type of coverage imagined), and on the ability of the crew. The classic example is a line in a script that says: "Atlanta burns." or "The war began."

I was just trying to get a picture of what it?s possible on a short period of time and at the same time trying to see what?s realistic to avoid setting an undoable schedule.

I can tell you that the typical low-budget movie has a three or four week shooting schedule, just because that's the longest schedule most producers can afford to pay people for and rent equipment for, plus keep a group of actors together for. I did one 15-day feature, one 17-day feature, and several 18-day features. But they were a real grind.

Yeah, that makes the 30 days shoot sound not so bad. How many were there in the crews?

Just came off shooting a 23 day interactive feature. We had mostly 12 to 14 hour days of 6 day weeks for four weeks. Not a lot of time for a 120 page script. Still we managed to get everything but that's only because the director had a detailed shot breakdown that would put any script supervisor to shame. Otherwise, I think we would have gone way over schedule.

I would be interested in hearing more about this ?detailed shot breakdown? in detail.

As long as the director is prepared or he/she has an experienced production team (A.D., Script Sup, PM,etc) you can easily do 5 to 7 pages a day. But the 35mm adaptor can really slow you down. We'd remove it when we needed to buy ourselves some extra time. It takes longer to light with it and longer to set up shots.

Did the footage match ok? I have the impression the footage wouldn?t match very well.

Another time saving measure is block shooting where you shoot out a location but you do it in directions. Meaning you shoot several scenes at once in one direction and then turn around. This involves wardrobe changes and having actors jump around in the script and sometimes lighting changes but it definitely saves a lot of time. Not a lot of fun for the actors though.

That sounds like more trouble than it?s worth for me. Shooting that way could throw all the performances off, not to mention would be very confusing too. I can see that working with simpler projects though.

I know this is tremendously subjective, but I wanted to ask the more experienced people here what they think is a realistic shooting schedule for a low budget HD feature shoot with a crew of 4 or 5 plus the Director? I mean in terms of script pages per day of shooting etc.

The feature is to be shot in HD with a Mini35 and a set of PL prime lenses. No zooms if that will make any difference. It would be great to hear your opinions. Thanks.

Thanks David.

Yes, it's a Tiffen product.

Maybe you misunderstood me and forgive me if you didn't. But what I meant was, is there an equivalent to the Tiffen Smoque filters from another brand? I know Smoque is a Tiffen product, but maybe there is something similar in the market. I know glimmerglass has no equivalent for example, but promist and others do.

Thanks for all the input guys. I already have an American Cinematographer subscription by the way.

Anything on the Cinematographer Style DVD? I already have Visions of Light. Are they any similar?

Thanks again David. So I think the fog is out of question as it seems to give you a different effect. Is Tiffen the only one making Smoque filters?

I'm looking for getting some more educational material on the art of cinematography. I already have Film Lighting and Cinematography by Kris Malkiewicz (I have the updated version with David Mullen), the ASC manual, 5 C?s of Cinematography and the documentary Visions of Light. I'm now looking for new stuff. I have just ordered The Set Lighting Technician's Handbook by Harry C. Box since I heard it can be useful for those who light their own sets. I'm now considering Reflections and New Cinematographers but I was told they are quite similar. Is this true? Has anybody read both? Which is more worth getting? I'm also considering the Cinematographer Style DVD. How good is it? Is it any similar to Visions of Light?

I?m also wondering if I should get an AC book. Which is best for getting basic and all around knowledge in ACing? Elkins or Hart?s? Thanks.

Thanks David. I'm looking for a filter to help matching close ups of master shots with smoke/fog produced by a fog machine. Normally if you just use the fog machine for the close up it doesn't work very well because the fog is either too much or too little. I heard a filter helps but I am not sure if I should I get a fog or a smoque. But given your explanation, it seems the smoque would be the one? Also what grade? Thanks again.

I was wondering what is the difference between these two Tiffen filters?

Losmandy makes a set of trays with different diameter wheels so that even with high loads when the wheels get a flat spot the varied diameter smooths out the ride to hide the bump. I usually just rock the wheels out just before the shot.

I was just thinking about the flat spot problem with skate wheels. Would the U grooved ones have the same problem? They are steel covered in polyurethane type of material.

Also, I just checked Modern Studio and I see their standard wheel set are soft and the luxury set are hard wheels. I thought soft wheels would be smoother and the only advantage of harder wheels would be no flat spot. But at the cost of smoothness?

Thanks for the very insightful reply Robert.

Check out Modern studio or willey's widgets. They have eight wheels per truck. the more wheels the more the load is spead and the more capacity for the dolly. I have a door way set with four wheels per corner, it runs fine for loads on a doorway dolly. I have a set of modern skate trays with eight wheels per corner. I use this with fischers and chapman, I also use this with the panther dolly.

My dolly is a doorway type of dolly too. Much like the Western dolly. But I have a pedestal where I can mount either a tripod head or a jib arm. So the load is not so light. In this case would you advise going with more than four wheels per truck? I don?t know how much a fisher or Chapman weights but I would think my dolly even with the jib arm wouldn?t weight as much as one of them.

I have even begun for speed sake using the dolly trays with the doorway dolly rubber wheels so I dont have to take time to switch wheel sets.

If I really go for skate wheels this is my plan. To make a tray where I can just sit my dolly on without taking the rubber tires off. It really seems to save time that way.

By the way, are the skate wheels found in hardware stores good enough for this? Or should I go to a proper skate shop? Also, am I looking for harder or softer wheels here?

Losmandy makes a set of trays with different diameter wheels so that even with high loads when the wheels get a flat spot the varied diameter smooths out the ride to hide the bump. I usually just rock the wheels out just before the shot.

That?s a good idea to have different diameters.

Rocking the wheels sound very useful specially on a cold day I would guess.

your u shaped wheels will work. the panther has them and the fisher and chapman have them as options. I only use the panther set on straight track. It squeaks like the dickens on round track.

I was only going to use it for straight track as I don?t think I can build a round metal track and a PVC one doesn?t sound would be very stable, or?

Anyways, the skate wheel tray will work on a round track? Or it needs to be pivoting trucks to work on a round track?

I never used the fischer or chapmans bc I have a set of dolly trays. These make life faster and less worries about dirt or gravel in the wheel. The panther u wheels seem to tear up frequently because of dirt and rooling on hard floors, which is why I dont like the panther as a dolly. ( I know there are fans of it)

Yeah, the main reason I was going for the U grooved type of wheels was because all the big pro dollies use them and because I thought the bigger diameter would smooth the ride more than the little skate wheels. I guess I was wrong. I was really surprised to see Panthers and Fishers on skate trays in big budget film sets.

Build your dolly the way you want it. experiment. If you have the wheels make one of each and find the one you like. If it works great let us know, it might be your million dollar idea.

That?s a sure thing. I will post the results here when done.

By the way, I see you are in Memphis. That?s a lovely city. I have been to Memphis in May once. Great place really. I love the Southern hospitality.

Other than internally in the camera? Not really, as there is no single box, at least not one that is field portable. You need to take an AJA HD10A to get from component HD to HD-SDI and then an AJA HD10MD3 to get from HD-SDI to composite SD (or component SD or SD-SDI -- it does all varieties).

Well the two AJA boxes you listed seem to be portable enough actually. Although pricy.

But I wonder why there aren't any other cheaper options. Are there at least cheaper ways to convert component SD to composite? It seems to be a pretty straight forward thing really.

So the Kelly wheel is not a good one? The Samcine seems to be impossible to find. What's the main difference?

Could anybody comment on this?

Do you mean Arri bayonet? If so, the asnwer is no.

But your question is too generic. Basically every "modern" lens mount is a bayonet mount sort of speaking.

There is an auto setting as well, so that it detects if you just use the one spigot.

That would explain why I didnt have to go in the menu to change it.

So, is there a simple way to convert component HD to composite SD?

Are you absolutely sure that the gate size specified for previs was 35mm? They could have previs'd with an HD or smaller sized gate. With a smaller gate, those lens choices wouldn't necessarily be out of the ordinary for close ups. They could have just shifted the lens choices longer across the board after deciding on 35mm as the principal format.

No, I'm not 100% sure. I will watch it again and see if they mention the gate size. But I would think it was indeed 35mm since the widest lens was like 15mm.

Hey,

 

This is the kind of posting that makes peeps here mad at me, but, I'll say it anyway.

 

Of course, artistic freedom is essential. And any lens should be available to the DP and Director to suit their creative expression. Yet, there are loose conventions for lens use and they have been established for some very good reasons. While the reasons and their importance are debatable, all of them revolve around the concept of "suspension of disbelief". There are, roughly, three categories of commonly used lenses: wide angle for scene establishment, settings, and broad action; medium length for character interactions; and portrait length for faces. What these lengths are depends on the format you shoot on.

 

I didn't set these rules of thumb, so, please refrain from flaming me. The industry has leaned on these rules and uses them more than their variants.

Paul, that's exactly what I have learned and the reason I was so surprised with the lens choices.

Wide (estabilishing shots, master shots, action and the like)

medium (over the shoulders, two shots, and so on)

Long (close ups)

People need to realize that if you shoot Super 35 (2.39) then a 50mm is no longer a 'normal' lens, but a 27mm is. The vertical angle of the 50mm in 1.33 is about 21 degrees, but once you start cropping to a 'wider' format, you reduce that angle. So to get that same vertical 21 degree angle in 1.85 and 1.66 you have to go to 35mm and 32 mm (if my memory serves me well).

Max, you really seem to know your stuff when it comes down to lenses and aspect ratios. You always shime in with great info on lenses. That could well explain why most shots were around 24mm-28mm. If 27mm would be the equivalent of a 50mm for 2.39 that would explain it. I didn't consider the fact Kong was S35 shot for "scope".

Wheels like they use on trains (here in holland) run flat on the tracks. The sides hit the tracks as well. When using them on a filmdolly you will either have "the difference of surface speed" between the sides and the running-surface of the wheel or you will have the side of the wheel sometimes touching the track which will result in more resitance for the dolly-grip, so a non-continues unpredictable speed change.

 

The flanged wheels on the fishers, hybrid and peewee do have a little "track-rounding" so in theory the should have this surface-speed-thing, on set you will not encounter them this much.

 

Onno Perdijk

Amsterdam, The Netherlands

KeyGrip

Yeah, that was the basically reason I decided on the U-grooved wheels over the flanged ones. The flage would touch the tracks. But given all you said it seems the skate wheels are a better solution than the U-grooved ones. I have been looking around online and there seems to be a lot of people using them. I even saw that they used some in King Kong. Funny because I would have never thought they would be better than the U-grooved wheels or the Fisher wheels because both styles seem to be more precise. Panther even have them and call them precision wheels or something. Go figure.

Now it's just a matter of deciding between trucks of 4 skate wheels each or is there a need for more wheels per truck?