Charles Doran

Is there any demand for ASA 50 negative?

 

I wouldn't imagine so. I think the Velvia 50 is considered to be a great looking stock when it works so that explains the availability...(?)

Yes, but negative stock has far more latitude. I shot tons of the Velvia 50D but mostly under bright skies. I would have loved to have shot some 50 neg as well in different lighting conditions.

Charles... what do you mean you don't know if you are count as"main player"????

 

You are a famous one now and people feel exciting to being a same cart with you! :lol:

 

filmshooting.com will be back on 1st May. Just a couple of weeks later. Thanks man for let me know this forum. So at least I can keep track with some of us.

 

Philip

Ha...you are quite funny... too bad "famous" can't pay the bills...

I look forward to the PTC project being DONE.

I will attend too. My friend Heiko Riemann and I made a film that will be in the competition. Hope to see you there!

 

Juergen

www.smallformat.de

it would be cool to see your film ("Kodachrome" right?) as well as Steve Hyde's "Shikashika." Lots of other interesting S8 films as well. Wouldn't mind seeing "Angel Recovered"...hell, they should just tour the whole thing....

If anyone makes it please let us know how it turns out!

Looks like some very interesting films will be playing...including Westsider!

http://www.cambridge-super8.org/

schedule:

http://www.cambridge-super8.org/assets/CS8...2008Booklet.pdf

I used to love splicing the old fashioned way...Used a Hervic (RIP)... easiest splicer in the world. Wish I could still find some of the tape patches...Anyone have a cache hidden away they don't need?

I am part of the Pass the Cart II Project but filmshooting.com is down so am unable to communicate with the others involved. Are any of the main players in that project on this board as well? Would hate to see this thing go off the rails again.

Rick

Hey Rick,

I don't know if I count as a "main player" but I'm in it...I'll let Philip (Last Coyote) know to come here. Shame about filmshooting.com...anyone know when it's set to come back?

CHAS

I remember seeing this info, or maybe just some of this info on someone's website once ... (yeah, real helpful, I know ;) )...

Maybe Giles (onsuper8.org) has it?

I have an old Photography mag from the early 70s I should post...real weird to see all the different companies that sold their own stock...I wonder if the Prinz brand held up at all...

I found Spectra Film and Video as a good possibility.

Yes, they are. Do a search and you'll find lots of info on them on this board.

MIchael, thanks for conversing with this difficult bunch (or solitary person, whatever).

Do you have anything you could post from your not-so-good Kahl days?

Conversed with Kahl as promised.

 

Very kind and friendly as long as he had the prospect of quoting for the sale of film stocks to the UK in higher amounts than just one or two. Raised the question on the provenience of the stock, as I "assumed he would not produce film stock himself", No surprise, then, that actually, he claimed he did (as so often before), even flagging out the KAHL brand on the cartridges. Needless to say that any further replies from him were not forthcoming and giving out details where his deep-frozen Agfa and Fuji stock are held "hostage" :) to be sold off as "Kahlchrome" something.

 

Kevin, re. discount when buying longer reels of DS8 neg? No, not available, no discounts.

 

Cf. to similar debates on these issues on kamera-board.de and filmsht.com

 

Conclusion: same procedure as every year regarind the mythmaking of his films. That is not trust-building and hence, I won't change my approach not to entertain his business for my projects in any way.

 

Current issue of Schmalfilm features Kahl as opting out of the Telecine survey by returning the test film unopened to sender (in this case Jürgen Lossau). As this was a voluntary test, this should not be stigmatised per se, however, he was only one of two IIRC who did so.

Anyone know where I can purchase this movie?

 

Thanks

 

Toby

I got mine off of e-bay a few years ago (I believe he had a distributor but was also selling it there) -- you might try googling Matt Pacini -- I know he has a website for his production company somewhere.

And we should move on...because you say we should move on?

Funny how you pop up out of nowhere, with no postings to any of your own films or film websites, reference a well-known trouble-making troll like Santo then tell us all the things you intend to do but none of the things you have done.

Very odd...

Personally, I prefer Panavision and Aatons...but you know what? It doesn't mean I've shot anything on them.

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, this was my original quote. "Is it me or does this trailer look so super-8? Meaning the registration is...Yuck!" Santos has influenced my way of thinking. Super-8 and the way it is being used and how light the cameras are contribute to what seems to be a very "super-8" look for almost everyone who touches it. I thought that parts of the trailer was one more in a list of examples of how I'd like super-8 not to look "unsteady on two fronts 1.) camera movement and 2.) registration. Have you seen the embarrassing footage in pro8mm demo dvd? I'm not criticizing the content, the choice of stocks, story-line, action, direction, acting. I was just asking anyone who cared to comment if the trailer looked "super-8" to anyone else. I want filmmakers to succeed including this film. Wow its amazing how 15 words can be received. So again I ask but without the "yuck" word. Is the registration in this trailer look unsteady to you overall? And so far its a mixed bag. I'm purchasing a Fujica ZC1000 and looking for a Canon DS8 camera to help solve this issue for me. And plan on having every camera I own serviced. Other than moving to an Arri S/B, using a tripod with super8 and weighing down the camera are some solutions. Let's move on.

Wow! Thanks for that. I never had a problem with the old 7240 (R.I.P.), thought it quite beautiful in fact.

 

SA would've been so much more ~sparkly~ if we had been able to go back to the original MiniDV xfer, right out of the box, so to speak, and conformed that to the excellent soundtrack. As it stands it went through a number of format changes, and lost a bit of itself each time...~:?(

 

Mitch

No problem -- btw, maybe we went over this already, my memory is awful -- but did you see the 7240 clips I posted on my site? -- I tried to show the opposite -- 7240 at its absolute worst!

a.) I think you guys did a great job with "Sleep Always" -- I left my copy at Spectra to give them an example of how good the 7240 stock can look.

b.) I have a copy of a short film Trevor/Santo made and it's complete and utter shite.

No disrespect taken. First of all, Mitch Perkins was the technical "genius/idiot" behind the SD8 in Sleep Always, so I'll let him voice his opinion. But speaking for the both of us (I think) our idea was to get the best image we could, for the least amount of money, so we did (Mitch did) the telecine because it cost us nothing, and that was part of the fun, having total control without any third party involvement. Having used an "old-fashioned" film chain telecine to miniDV I think it looks pretty good, especially for 7240 reversal stock. It could obviously be better with some high-end telecine/transfer/scan, whatever, but that was never our concern.

 

In general, that 13% additional frame area in SD 8 CAN make a big difference, but like Matthew says, only in conjunction with other variables. Poor lighting is poor lighting, on any format. At the end of the day I am not that concerned with how good an image can theoretically get and more interested in what was actually achieved, and more importantly, good direction, editing, sound and story. If those elements are not there nothing else matters. What I found humourous about Santo was his obsession with minor technical improvements when there was no indication he knew what to do with it.

 

Rick

I already have the Tele but I'm looking for the "Close up" 240 lens for the 1014/814 xl-s. Do you have that too?

fraid not...

I'm selling mine -- no need, especially since I don't have access to a 1014-XLS anymore!

Anyone interested here is the e-bay link

good lord, sounds horrible. Sorry you had to go thru this mess. Well at least your film turned out ok, right?

I'm going to SE Asia in December for 4 weeks....anyone have any experience with Hong Kong, Bangkok, Vietnam and Cambodia airports?

Here's my semi-horror story which happened in August:

 

I flew from Cleveland to Denver and back with 20 carts. I also had the film seperate and ready for inspection. On the way there I politely asked for hand inspection, and after being told it would be ok unless ASA 800 or higher, I insisted even more politely, and they had someone hand inspect the film. All the film was sealed, in the Kodak boxes, and the inspection took 1-2 minutes.

 

On the return trip, I tried to follow the same procedure, I had the film seperate again and asked for hand inspection. After hearing that it would be ok unless 800 ASA or higher, I insisted politely. The guy wouldn't budge at first but I kept insisting as politely as I could, and the security man finally gave in, and called someone to hand inspect. The airport was very busy and there must have been a 2-3 hundred people waiting to go through.

Well, this hand inspector, took every cartridge out of it's package and box, even my 8 unopened cartridges. I was standing there 4 feet away in total disbelief watching this clumsy person, change cloves, take a napking that she would wipe the cartridge with to some machine, and repeat the process 20 times. It took over 45 minutes! In the end, she handed me an asortment of film, foil packages, and yellow boxes, in one of those gray tubs. It took a few minutes for me to put everything back together.

Off course, I never made my flight. The airline was understanding and gave me a seat, same flight, next day. I got an extra day of vacation, but still had to go through the process again, and was dreading it. Walking around the airport the next day, I came across a USPS office and mailed the film to myself.

I agree the OP was obnoxious, and I wouldn't like to have that experience. But unfortunately its part of the price of putting one's stuff out there. But that really had nothing to do with my post, I was simply interested in discussing technical aspects of what we saw in the trailer. Maybe I'll put my next project on the web and post the link here just for kicks. I'm sure there are a few that would really dig tearing it apart!

 

Is Westsider being screened anywhere in town?

I have no problem with any of your constructive comments, Doug. Hopefully I was able to answer your points.

Right now, Westsider is being submitted to fests -- but due to last-minute editing I missed a lot of deadlines for fests that were local. I'll post if it's going to screen in L.A. Ironically I missed the San Fernando Valley film fest for this year but will submit for next year -- now that would be hilarious if "Westsider" was accepted there.

Has anyone used the Super 8 guys video tap? Does it work well? I've never used a tap on Super 8mm but I would be excited to try one that works well.

I borrowed John L's (Super-8 Guy) Canon 1014-xls once but not the tap -- but you should give him a call if you need info -- he's a great guy to talk to and will get back to you right away.

Wow - a lot to respond to. Go away for a few days and then see such a lovely title in a thread for a film you worked your ass off to make.

Ok, here goes:

1.) the color saturation which some people have a problem with -- if you go to the Westsiderfilm.com website you will see that it clearly states that the film is about an ambitious guy who has an insatiable love for the "Westside of Los Angeles" -- hence the super-saturated stock of the Velvia and K40. When I was telecining it at Spectra, Doug asked me if I wanted to tone down the Velvia. I said, "no" because the super-saturated color represented how the character thinks the "Westside" looks. When he moves to the Valley the colors get significantly muted (and the stock changes -- outdoors we used 7240 and 64T designed to look like 7240 -- indoors we stuck with the 200T but I had Doug give it an ugly tinted look. So yes, the stocks of the film were deliberate -- they can almost be seen as "characters" in the film.

2.) Registration. It does look more jumpy in the non-mpeg 4 version. For the shots with the guy on the diving board doing his b.s. yoga poses we had camera issues (I had to take my Elmo 1012-XLS to Spectra because it wasn't running their 1st generation Velvia as well). I don't think it looks that bad -- certainly not compared to some of the people here and on filmshooting.com who post links to their crappy youtube home movies -- it's not like you see a long thread where we criticize them. ;)

3.) Tripod was used in all indoor shots -- the way some of the comments are made one would think my DP was running as she shot -- not true. In the exteriors (ironically the one exterior where we did use a tripod was the diving board/yoga poses scene) she had her arms locked down. I have shown this film to about 100 people so far and not one person mentioned the registration looking bad. Here is a quote from one online reviewer (badlit.com):

"Doran has shot an absolutely beautiful film. Although 8mm film is a dying art, Doran and his cinematographer Laura Daroca use a saturated, vibrant color palette for a very rich, lush look. You can understand the main character?s obsession with the Westside when it?s as vivid looking as Daroca shoots it. But, at the same time, 8mm is a very grainy film, plus colors smartly change with each neighborhood profiled ? the Valley is done up in ugly sepia tones ? and there is no sync sound in the film. The story is told entirely through the main character?s narration, so like in reading a zine you?re aware of it?s photocopied nature, when watching Westsider, you?re still very aware of the celluloid medium even after it?s transferred to DVD." http://www.badlit.com/?cat=5

From the most recent Super-8 Today:

"Visually the film is very appealing. The Super-8 look works to a tee. The entire film, with the exception of a few still pictures, was shot on Super-8, and much of it is beautiful and well photographed. The interiors are lighted well, giving the film the polished look of a professional production. All in all, this is a perfect example and a good study of what a short narrative film should be, and an excellent film to watch by any filmmaker desiring to see how a Super-8 film can be structured to look as if it was made from one of its larger format cousins."

and from microfilmmaker.com:

"Doran seems to have mastered the use of Super8 photography, something which is increasingly becoming a lost art. Not only does the motion signature and grain inherent in Super8 film immediately seem to boost the production values by thousands of dollars, but Doran?s choice of film stock, combined with his use of filters and color correction creates a tonal variety that I still haven?t seen replicated with digital video cameras. There is something about the over-saturated ?pop? of the blue sky and green grass captured by the Super8 film that seems impossible to replicate in any other medium. Doran uses this highly-saturated color palette during the ?happy times? of the character arc. However, once Mr. Westsider starts his downfall, the colors become more desaturated. Towards the end of the film, we are presented with shots in muted blues and sickly yellows, reflecting the mental state of the main character." http://www.microfilmmaker.com/critiques/Is...3/Westsid2.html

<<Second, its perfectly legit to be critical of a director's color choices if they are not right for the show. Some people will like the super saturated look of West Sider others won't. But I doubt that anyone posting here can't recognize that the colors are highly saturated. The question is how does that saturation impact the story telling. The OP has every right to be critical of that, and any other aspect of the production.>>

Sure, anyone has a right to criticize. But re the obnoxious OP, a.) he's doing it in a deliberately annoying way (would you like it if you opened up a message board to see the title of your film with the childish "yuck!" next to it, Doug?) and b.) how does the OP know if the color choices are right for "the show" on the basis of a one-minute trailer? No one is claiming that the colors are not highly saturated.

I'm wondering if Adolfi is from the Valley... ;)

Take a look at this:

 

Shot in standard 16mm with a Bolex. What do you see? I see something I do not often see in Super-8, namely a steady shot. Use of a tripod. Could it be that when we hand hold the camera and since it's not as heavy and bold as a 16mm we get sloppy, jerky footage? Boy one huge improvement we could make is to simply use a tripod and flee from the temptation to zoom. What a more professional look it would and will have.

There are amateurs in every format, not just S8. For my film we borrowed a friend's expensive tripod and used an Elmo 1012-SXL for all interiors, but for most exteriors we handheld a lightweight Canon 814 AZ and had (IMHO) amazingly good results. For people who don't know what the hell they are doing then yes, it can be annoying/distracting to watch their amateur footage but you see that in DV-shot footage all the time at film fests.

I haven't been able to get to www.filmshooting.com for days. Anybody know the story? It's like it just fell off the end of the Internet... :unsure:

Probably the same thing that happened last year around this time -- hacker problems.

Yeah, the 200T worked great for indoors. I've never tried it outdoors but would be interested in seeing it in the full sun. Every single shot we had was "a 2-2.8 split" because we didn't have as much lighting as we wanted.

You guys weren't interested in the outdoor stocks like Velvia 50 or E100D? Much less grain and real vibrant colors...

Anyway, good luck! The Spectra people are great.

Is it fiction or documentary? Hard to tell from the trailer.

Narrative. Black comedy. Satire. ;)

Here is a trailer for an S8 short film I recently made. I used 9 stocks in the entire film but the trailer is a mix of mainly Velvia 50D, K40, E100D and 200T (interiors). All transferring and most of the processing was done at Spectra.

http://www.westsiderfilm.com/westsider_trailer.php

Pro8mm does not care about the little guy. there are tons of stories about this on the filmshooting.com board.

I used them twice and both times were bad experiences. In the first they processed some reversal as negative, totally ruining the roll! The guy I personally spoke with, Ritchie, at first blamed me, then took a look at the roll and realized what had happened. He didn't really offer any compensation, just vaguely said that they'd "give me a 50 ft cart" but nothing specific. The next roll I had them process didn't advance more than 10 feet. They didn't load it properly. A complete waste of time.

I'm sorry about the horrible experience you went thru. To make a short film and to have it destroyed that way is awful. All that work. The least they could have done was to put in a proper box! How much time would that have taken. But, the bottom line is they don't care.

Next time I'd suggest using Spectra. They may not offer all the stocks Pro8mm does but they will process any Pro8mm film for free if you telecine with them (at least they used to offer that on their website -- you might want to check to see if they still do that).

Good luck with your telelcine...