Oleseaden Lale

6 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Well, like you'll need to pay for a crew, cast, maybe G&E and locations to make a production. 

So putting money into the actual production (which I call making "content") is where the bulk of money would be going. Equipment is great and all, but you'll reach a level soon, where you'll have no choice but to pay for those things. 

 

Oh I get it now. Thanks a lot for all your input and I'm happy I found this forum!

1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

I'd happily say sure, but it's not going to be a very typical shoot and might not be a very useful experience as regards how the mainstream works.

P

Even if it's not a typical shoot, it could be a start maybe? At least for some level of networking at least. Care to share some more more information on the project?

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

That's great, good start honestly, two good cameras ya got there. Just don't forget about audio. Separate recorder (preferably) and wireless lavs will do the trick to start with. Good picture must have good audio. 

So yea, I'd just do what I said, keep working, keep shooting and as you develop your skills, you'll find people to work with, it's not that difficult, even in rural areas outside of the industry. I never had issues finding people living in a rural community. 

One thing I'd say tho, is to spend more money making content, than on equipment. 

Outside of that,  do you think after you PhD, you'd give up the sciences and want to be a filmmaker? Gosh, I don't know if had a PhD, that I'd never get into the film industry. Part of the reason I am in it full-time is because frankly, it's the only way I can make decent money and enjoy my life. Very few professions allow such a diverse lifestyle. 

Thanks so much Tyler...and yes, at some point I intend to do filmmaking full-time as that's something I'm so passionate about...a passion I only discovered while on my PhD. 

On spending money on creating content, could you shed some more light on that? Thanks 

18 minutes ago, Phil Rhodes said:

You can do very acceptable work with the GH5 and Pocket 4K; it is not necessary to spend large amounts of money on camera gear anymore. I'd say that getting a dolly is a much better idea and a long-term purchase.

As to crew, for less-expensive people look on mandy.com and put out a job ad; it's all I'd do. For more-expensive people with TV and film experience, go to the diary services. Right now those people will be very busy, but if it's just a short project it's easier. Eventually you'll start to get to know people you like.

The process of managing a crew is not always straightforward, as in any situation where you have a disparate bunch of people dragged together for a job. The general standard of management technique in the film industry is very poor because most of the people who become managers of others have had literally no training to do it beyond observing other people. When a first assistant steps up to being a director of photography, he or she likely has no experience of managing more than one or two other people, and will suddenly become a head of department with authority over two other departments. Even on a smaller project, as a direct-entry DoP you will find yourself managing probably at least two, possibly four other people and if it's a shoot-direct project of your own invention then you're responsible for the whole thing. Even with the best, most experienced people, which you likely will not have, this is not easy.

The biggest problem I see is frankly people not being managerial enough. Being in charge without making yourself unpopular is not easy, but the sad reality is you cannot be friends with people and manage them effectively. Sometimes a degree of sternness is required because time on set is very expensive, and that is not easy if you are not confident of your own position. Ideally you will have a first assistant director, a large part of whose job is to provide the required sternness, but if it's just you, well, it's up to you.

This leads on to the second issue, which is crew's attitude to you. It is likely that at some point you will end up managing someone who is much more experienced than you. Film crew who consider themselves to be slumming it for the day can be either an absolute dream, or an absolute pain in the backside. What they should do is sidle up to you and mutter suggestions discreetly in your ear. What they should not do is gripe about you behind your back. What they will do is likely a combination of both and you need to have the strength of character to tell them what you want. If you're paying the bills, you're in charge. Even if you screw it up badly, it's still cheaper than film school, and if that's your approach to learning the ropes, so be it.

The phrase I've heard used is "friendly, but not friends." It's not easy. As I say, it's often done horribly badly in film and TV, leading to significant and unnecessary friction, which is one reason once a crew is established as working well together, it tends to stick together.

For what it's worth I'm in Essex and crewing up for a very simple one-day short soon, so if you find anyone who's looking for work... well, you're lucky, but please refer that person to me!

Phil

 

Many thanks Phil...this was massively insightful to say the least. About the short you're crewing up for in Essex, I'd be interested for sure as I've never really been on set with a crew before and would be a great experience for me to have a feel for what it is like regardless of what roles are open. Let me know if this would be possible.

Lale

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Correct and the OP lives in Coventry which is 100 miles away from any "entertainment" industry in the UK. So it's not like he'll be going into the city to borrow cameras so he can start learning. The key is to get a camera, learn and then use that camera on shows until you can work on big enough shows where you don't need to be a camera/kit guy, which may never happen honestly. 

I can count on my hand how many shows I've worked on where everything was rented. The bulk/majority of the work I've done in Hollywood, the DP brings their kit as well. Maybe not as the "A" camera, but they will use their kit for something. Everyone I know has Alexa Mini's or Red Helium's, they don't sit around. I make $1200 - $1800/day because I have a kit. If I didn't have a kit, I wouldn't get the jobs at all. Same goes for post production. I've done one feature with "rented" equipment and that was because the studio didn't allow us to work from our homes. Now, everyone works at home and if you don't have a system to cut with, you are not an editor anymore. The only time you can get away with not owning anything is if you're a high end person, working on big studio shows. I don't think giving feedback for those people is relevant in this discussion. 

Sadly, most productions are trying to save money. I've worked on multi-million dollar features and they'll skimp on how many cards they have for the cameras, let alone the camera type. Just to save $10k or so. It's crazy! Either you work or you don't work and complain. That's the "Hollywood" way sadly. 

 

Great insight honestly. I've got a small bit of kit at the moment (Panasonic Lumix Gh5, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4k, an electronic gimbal, DJI Mavic 2 pro and a small LED lighting kit). Looking to get a camera dolly from ProAim as they have some affordable options because using am electronic gimbal doesn't necessarily give me the results I want in certain scenarios like for longer takes with smooth subtle movement. It's crazy that gear almost trumps everything else in today's world but I'm ready to build my gear gradually and upgrade my camera eventually when I get a job after my PhD.

Hi all

Pretty new on here so please pardon me if I'm not exactly doing things the right way. I've been a hobbyist for the most part not until last year when I wanted to do things more seriously and started to do some spec commercials to build a portfolio. However, I'm just wondering what various approaches there are to find crews to work with and start getting more industry experience and jobs? Currently a Doctoral student (in the sciences) but I invest most of my free time into cinematography. I'm basically a 1 man band at the moment and would really appreciate some advice on how to progress from here especially not having attended film school.